Halladay A Philly

[Orcasgt22 0]

Halladay trade articleSo now that he is no longer a Blue Jay, their is now no reason at all to watch that team.

[wsox8 10]

Halladay trade articleSo now that he is no longer a Blue Jay, their is now no reason at all to watch that team.

what about Lind and Vernon?

[MapleLeafs 142]

Vernon

LMFAO

[wsox8 10]

LMFAO

I'm glad you know how to laugh

[timwakefield 68]

Should we just make this the offseason thread? John Lackey is apparently going to the Red Sox, and Hideki Matsui is apparently going to the Angels, both as free agents. I'm fairly surprised the Yankees aren't keeping Matsui, after he went 8 for 13 with 3 home runs and 8 rbi in the world friggin series.

[HiN8s 0]

Should we just make this the offseason thread? John Lackey is apparently going to the Red Sox, and Hideki Matsui is apparently going to the Angels, both as free agents. I'm fairly surprised the Yankees aren't keeping Matsui, after he went 8 for 13 with 3 home runs and 8 rbi in the world friggin series.

The old boss woulda kept him for sentimental reasons. Hank doesn't have a heart.

[slink 1]

85 million for Lackey, lol. I understand that the Red Sox have to do all they can in the East coast market, but I think they overpaid. Guess that doesn't really matter as it is not our/your money and bottom-line they got a pitcher that will help their rotation. Does any other team possess a better trio than Lester, Beckett, and Lackey?As for the Angels and Matsui, WFT? At least it is only for one year and they struck gold with the last Yankee cast-off for a one year contract. Weaver, Kazmit, Saunders, and Santana are pretty good, but they still need to pull the trigger for a middle rotation guy IMO. They've been talking Lowe in so. Cal but at 15 million per for 3 years that seems a bit excessive. Maybe trade to ATL includes GMJr. to release his contract. Though I still see the Angels standing pat until mid-year with their rotation.

[timwakefield 68]

85 million for Lackey, lol. I understand that the Red Sox have to do all they can in the East coast market, but I think they overpaid. Guess that doesn't really matter as it is not our/your money and bottom-line they got a pitcher that will help their rotation. Does any other team possess a better trio than Lester, Beckett, and Lackey?

I agree that it seems like an overblown contract. If Lackey goes 18-8, 3.26 next season then it at least starts to look like a great signing though, so we'll have to wait and see. As far as that trio, it's pretty ill, especially when you've got yours truly, Buccholz, and Dice-K to fill it out, as well as probably a couple others.

[Speed Limit 0]

85 million for Lackey, lol. I understand that the Red Sox have to do all they can in the East coast market, but I think they overpaid. Guess that doesn't really matter as it is not our/your money and bottom-line they got a pitcher that will help their rotation. Does any other team possess a better trio than Lester, Beckett, and Lackey?As for the Angels and Matsui, WFT? At least it is only for one year and they struck gold with the last Yankee cast-off for a one year contract. Weaver, Kazmit, Saunders, and Santana are pretty good, but they still need to pull the trigger for a middle rotation guy IMO. They've been talking Lowe in so. Cal but at 15 million per for 3 years that seems a bit excessive. Maybe trade to ATL includes GMJr. to release his contract. Though I still see the Angels standing pat until mid-year with their rotation.

The Angels got majorly reamed today from all sides. I'm pretty sure they weren't too happy with the Halladay or Lackey news. Wonder if this means they go after Wang now.

[timwakefield 68]

So I finally read the Halladay article: So the Phillies got Halladay but gave up Cliff Lee. That makes this much less of a win for them than I had expected. Halladay out of the AL East is also a nice win for the Red Sox.

[CaneBrain 95]

Yeah the big winner in this is the Red Sox not the Phillies. Getting Halladay and losing Cliff Lee is a complete wash to me. That is how good Lee has been the last two seasons. The Red Sox added Lackey (they did not overpay that much) and lost nothing except having to face Halladay 3 times a year.

[akoff 0]

The phillies couldn't agree to long term deal with Lee...i guess they decided Halladay for for 4 years better then Lee for 1

[CaneBrain 95]

The phillies couldn't agree to long term deal with Lee...i guess they decided Halladay for for 4 years better then Lee for 1

It makes sense....I just dont think Philly is better off for this year with Halladay over Lee. Basically, the same.

[wsox8 10]

White Sox trade for Juan Pierre and give up two minor league pitchers (not sure who yet). I like it, depending on who they gave up. Looks like bye bye for Podsednik though.

[CaneBrain 95]

White Sox trade for Juan Pierre and give up two minor league pitchers (not sure who yet). I like it, depending on who they gave up. Looks like bye bye for Podsednik though.

JUAN PIERRE!!! HOT STOVE FEVER!!!!

[wsox8 10]

JUAN PIERRE!!! HOT STOVE FEVER!!!!

Hey, it's a big deal for the Sox. They get a lead off guy who hits .300 and can steal a crap load of bases. Good move

[timwakefield 68]

In similarly Warm-Stove news, the Red Sox signed Mike Cameron.

[coug2828 8]

Hey, it's a big deal for the Sox. They get a lead off guy who hits .300 and can steal a crap load of bases. Good move

that is a pretty nice pickupi'm getting all my coverage of the Halladay deal from the seattle perspective. according to this http://espn.go.com/blog/sweetspot/post/_/i...ing-off-a-heistit's apparently one of the best deals ever, so i'm down. Felix and Lee 1,2 is nasty

[Mercury69 3]

Jays got hosed again...At least Halladay didn't go to the Sox or Yankees.

[Tactical Bear 3]

Does any other team possess a better trio than Lester, Beckett, and Lackey?

Felix Hernandez, Cliff Lee, (whatever turd the Mariners use, hopefully Brandon Morrow)Verlander, Scherzer, Porcello. I dunno, though, I think Porcello might still be a few missed bats away from being a league-average pitcher. For a guy that gets so many groundballs, he gives up a ton of bombs.

Yeah the big winner in this is the Red Sox not the Phillies. The Red Sox added Lackey (they did not overpay that much) and lost nothing except having to face Halladay 3 times a year.

First off, it's tough to argue the Sox are really winners when the Blue Jays get worse, as it has the same effect on the other two competitive teams in the division. Goose, gander, etc. Did anybody think the Sox/Yankees/Rays wouldn't get two playoff spots with or without Halladay in the Bluejays rotation?Also, I really think the Lackey deal was a little extreme. If he repeats last year's performance -- 180 IP, 3.75 ERA, etc. -- he's getting paid about exactly what he's worth. Boston should be willing to pay market-rate (or slightly more) considering the competitive nature of their division, and the extreme value of each win, so if he gives them that kind of performance over the next 5 years, I'm a fan.But there are a few concerns with Lackey:1) Injuries/durability. From 2003-2007, he threw about 1050 innings, 650 of those during the last three years of that stretch. That's some serious work. He hasn't broken 180 since. It would be irresponsible to suggest he'll be unable to be a 200IP horse going forwards, but at 31, are the odds that good that he's going to be able to keep trucking the next 5 years? 2) Declining controllable skills. In his prime, Lackey's value was derived mostly from his better-than-average K/BB numbers. During his best years, he was at about 8 K/9 :: 3BB/9. The last few years, his walk rates and strikeout rates have both fallen (former is good, latter is bad). His fastball has lost some zip (and movement, too, but I will have to double-check that), which explains both his decreased K-rate AND decreased BB-rate; he's simply generating fewer swings and misses, meaning more balls are being put in play, meaning fewer strikeouts and fewer walks. This is not great. If his ability to miss bats continues trending downwards, he's going to lose some of his effectiveness. Maybe he'll be able to keep the walks low enough to overcome his decreased K%, but (shrug) I dunno.He'd have to be last year's John Lackey until he's 36 to be worth the money the Sox paid for him. That's just incredibly unlikely. 5 years is a long time for any pitcher, let alone one with declining skills, injury concerns, and a birthday in the late 70s. I'm not sure what the Red Sox were thinking.

It makes sense....I just dont think Philly is better off for this year with Halladay over Lee. Basically, the same.

They signed Halladay to a reasonable deal (good), but their farm system got worse. (I think Halladay costs about a million more than Lee this year, so that difference is pretty negligible.) My question is: why not keep Lee this year, offer him arbitration, let him walk, take the 2 compensatory picks, then try to sign somebody next winter? To be honest, I have no idea what the fuck the Phillies were doing. This was basically two trades: (1) prospects for Halladay; (2) Lee for prospects. Why did they make the second deal? They got nothing for him. Lee's going to be a Type A, so they traded 1 year of Cliff Lee and two first-round picks for a pu-pu platter of prospects. Makes... no sense to me.

White Sox trade for Juan Pierre and give up two minor league pitchers (not sure who yet). I like it, depending on who they gave up. Looks like bye bye for Podsednik though.

The funny thing is, I'm pretty sure Podsednik's 2009 is about what the White Sox are likely to get from Pierre in 2010. At least they're only paying about 8 million for him. Pierre will be, what, about Melky Cabrera next year? Significantly below league-average, but not a disaster? Unless he turns into 2008 Juan Pierre, in which case... hey, you just traded for 2006-2008 Scott Podsednik!

In similarly Warm-Stove news, the Red Sox signed Mike Cameron.

Now this is a fucking deal. Mike Cameron > Jason Bay. And I don't mean, like, "for the money, I'd rather have...", but "Ignoring salaries, Mike Cameron is a better baseball player than Jason Bay." Looks like Sox are going Pitching/Defense. Not a bad idea.On another note, if I were a GM of a bad/small-market team that's rebuilding, I'd put together the best defensive team in baseball, throw some solid-but-not-good pitching out there, then trade their 3.35 ERAs away to a contender so fast. "I don't care if we can't score. All of my pitchers will look like All-Stars, and you will all pay me for them for no reason."

[wsox8 10]

The funny thing is, I'm pretty sure Podsednik's 2009 is about what the White Sox are likely to get from Pierre in 2010. At least they're only paying about 8 million for him. Pierre will be, what, about Melky Cabrera next year? Significantly below league-average, but not a disaster? Unless he turns into 2008 Juan Pierre, in which case... hey, you just traded for 2006-2008 Scott Podsednik!

yeah, could be about what Scotty was like last year, but it's nice to get a pretty good lead off guy. I'm glad they get him for a cheaper price considering Pods wanted more money.

[timwakefield 68]

To be honest, I have no idea what the fuck the Phillies were doing. This was basically two trades: (1) prospects for Halladay; (2) Lee for prospects. Why did they make the second deal? They got nothing for him. Lee's going to be a Type A, so they traded 1 year of Cliff Lee and two first-round picks for a pu-pu platter of prospects. Makes... no sense to me.

Well I think they did it for 2 reasons: 1 is that they wanted to find themselves an ace that they could keep for a few years. Halladay in the NL could be fairly silly. Second, I would guess that they rate Halladay as worth about 1.2 or 1.3 Cliff Lees, simply because he's been so good for so long.

[Tactical Bear 3]

Well I think they did it for 2 reasons: 1 is that they wanted to find themselves an ace that they could keep for a few years. Halladay in the NL could be fairly silly. Second, I would guess that they rate Halladay as worth about 1.2 or 1.3 Cliff Lees, simply because he's been so good for so long.

This doesn't explain the decision to trade Lee away, though. They could have made the Halladay deal without moving Lee. That's the real confusing part.

[Tactical Bear 3]

yeah, could be about what Scotty was like last year, but it's nice to get a pretty good lead off guy. I'm glad they get him for a cheaper price considering Pods wanted more money.

"Pretty good?" Really? I'll come here and apologize after the season if I'm wrong, but I don't think there's a chance in hell Juan Pierre is a league-average player. He probably won't come close.

[Mercury69 3]

This doesn't explain the decision to trade Lee away, though. They could have made the Halladay deal without moving Lee. That's the real confusing part.

If I were the Phils, that's what I would have done. Halladay, Lee, Hamels? Pedro for another half decent year? That puts them over the top, imo. They could have re-assessed mid-year and dealt Lee if they were out of playoff contention. They would have retained their prospects and had an incredible rotation.Also, a big fuck you to the Jays front office. How much you want to bet they deal someone like Adam Lind this year? They are that stupid, imo.