Jj, Flopped Oesfd

[Mr. Sparco 2]

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)MP2 (t965)CO (t2515)Button (t9100)SB (t2640)BB (t2655)Hero (t2394)UTG+1 (t4435)MP1 (t2855)Preflop: Hero is UTG with J , J . Hero raises to t150, UTG+1 raises to t250, 6 folds, Hero calls t100.Flop: (t575) Q , T , 9 (2 players)Hero bets t350, UTG+1 raises to t700What's the plan here? Villain has played a pretty decent game so far.

[craiger 0]

His min raise is weird. It looks like a "feeler" raise with KK and no spade, to see if you have a high spade. I probably raise all-in here.Sometimes villain shows up with AK spades...sometimes AK with the spade draw. He gets paid off here if he is that lucky.

[BeaverStyle 1]

As played.... it's tough.I would probably check raise on this flop after smooth calling villains min-reraise. It's a tough hand to play no matter how you look at it, and usually if all the money is in on the flop, you're either WA/WB or a marginal favorite. I'd hate to be in this situation... but it's a 4.40 and you have an OESFD. Jammm city.

[Sick Boy 0]

I have a similar problem with a hand I played awhile ago.HeroBB-3000Villian-1898blinds- 40/60I bet 160. Vilain calls.I've got J J same as op.Flop comes J 9 3 I bet 360, villain calls.Turn Ace I bet 420.Villain is all in.What now???Sorry dont mean to hi-jack but i really don't know the answer. Not really good pot odds to call.. 6.5 to 1 on your chips??? I donno, call i guess, see what the turn brings. Either that or shove. I would probably shove but I'm an idiot, dont listen to me.

[StupidKid 0]

Eurgh. I wrote a response to this hand like 3 times, and I still don't know.I probably just CRAI but if he has like KK/AA with a spade or QQ we're in gross shape, and AA/KK no spade we're v marginally ahead, AKwith a spade we're also slighty ahead. Bleh.IDK.

[throwemaway 0]

I c/r all in on that flopAs played, I shove as fast as humanly possible

[donk4life 34]

A check-raise would be sexy..As played.. it's tough a decision... This could be a scared set of queens.. But I think he'd repop more preflop..This really looks like kings or aces with no spade.. I'd shove...

[Mr. Sparco 2]

Here are some of my own thoughts on the hand. (I'll postpone the results until a bit later.)After the min-reraise preflop and given my previous reads on the player, I strongly suspected aces or kings. My small bet on the flop was intended as some sort of feeler bet, but reading your opinions, I do agree that a check-raise all-in is a good idea here.Anyway, with the given play on the flop and the small reraise on the turn, I still put my opponent on aces or kings. (With hindsight, I'm not so sure why exactly this was my read; I guess queens, the remaining two jacks, and maybe hands like AK with one or two spades, AQ with or without spade, tens or nines would fit with the betting pattern as well.)So, whereas my first thought was "weeeeeee", how many outs can we really count on? If the read for aces or kings is correct, there is a 50% chance that villain has a higher spade. Moreover, there is a 50% chance that two of our straight outs are gone. So let's say 5 outs for the spades (the 8s is a full out, the other ones count for 50%) and 5.5 more outs for the straight. (Three remaining eights, and on average 2.5 more kings.) That's a total of only 10.5 if my read is correct.(Some of you mentioned that AA or KK without a spade is most likely here - why is that?)All in all, I definitely can't fold here. When I push, I risk 1800 to win another 3000, which is very close to an even money play given this number of outs. Given that my read might of course be wrong, and that there is some fold equity, a push is certainly +EV. The other option is of course to call and reevaluate the turn, but then what do I do when for example a small spade comes? Push? Check-raise all-in? Check-fold?I still find it very tough; perhaps the best play is just to keep life easy and go for the push which is slightly +EV. But if anyone has good suggestions for playing the turn after a call, I would be very interested in hearing them.

[donk4life 34]

Here are some of my own thoughts on the hand. (I'll postpone the results until a bit later.)After the min-reraise preflop and given my previous reads on the player, I strongly suspected aces or kings. My small bet on the flop was intended as some sort of feeler bet, but reading your opinions, I do agree that a check-raise all-in is a good idea here.Anyway, with the given play on the flop and the small reraise on the turn, I still put my opponent on aces or kings. (With hindsight, I'm not so sure why exactly this was my read; I guess queens, the remaining two jacks, and maybe hands like AK with one or two spades, AQ with or without spade, tens or nines would fit with the betting pattern as well.)So, whereas my first thought was "weeeeeee", how many outs can we really count on? If the read for aces or kings is correct, there is a 50% chance that villain has a higher spade. Moreover, there is a 50% chance that two of our straight outs are gone. So let's say 5 outs for the spades (the 8s is a full out, the other ones count for 50%) and 5.5 more outs for the straight. (Three remaining eights, and on average 2.5 more kings.) That's a total of only 10.5 if my read is correct.(Some of you mentioned that AA or KK without a spade is most likely here - why is that?)All in all, I definitely can't fold here. When I push, I risk 1800 to win another 3000, which is very close to an even money play given this number of outs. Given that my read might of course be wrong, and that there is some fold equity, a push is certainly +EV. The other option is of course to call and reevaluate the turn, but then what do I do when for example a small spade comes? Push? Check-raise all-in? Check-fold?I still find it very tough; perhaps the best play is just to keep life easy and go for the push which is slightly +EV. But if anyone has good suggestions for playing the turn after a call, I would be very interested in hearing them.

Because I've seen players do this alot with kings or aces when their cards don't coordinate with flush possibilities.. They'll min. raise it to see where they are at, and hopefully they'll take it down cheaply..Plus, the min raise preflop was extremely weak...

[Mr. Sparco 2]

Because I've seen players do this alot with kings or aces when their cards don't coordinate with flush possibilities.. They'll min. raise it to see where they are at, and hopefully they'll take it down cheaply..Plus, the min raise preflop was extremely weak...

Makes sense, though I also see players minraise in such situations with very strong hands a lot, probably in an attempt to extract some value.The problem is that villain has done nothing to gain information here - both his raises were so small that I would have been tempted to call with a wide range of hands. So this probably either is a very strong hand that does not need any information, or it is a weak hand that wants to win the pot cheaply - I find it hard to conclusively put him on one of the two.

[LJB723 0]

Just get it all-in on the flop by use of a check/raise and watch the board brick out...

[Mr. Sparco 2]

Results: I pushed, and villain called with the worst possible hand for me: KK, with the Ks. Only six outs, and unfortunately none of them hit.

[throwemaway 0]

Yeah thats a sick hand for him to show up with there...Literally, the worst

[The Nuts 0]

Awful donk bet on the flop. Check and let villain bluff into you on the flop. Call his bet and re-evaluate turn.

[XXEddie 0]

Yeah... i would love to get it allin here, espcially in a $4.40. I wouldnt been surprised to see you get a call from AT, no spade.The only thing i dont like is your flop lead out. I think this has to be a c/r, possibly CRAI