playing a-k s after a raise is made

[greggr 0]

Well, i need some advice over this:I am playin in a 5+0.50 with rebuys tourney. I have made 2 reb and the add-on. 600 players started and deep into the third hour of play i am below par with 11k playing very tight (played 7/48 and won them all for the last 1 1/2 hours) due to the crap i am dealt and the fact i dont have much chips to make 'plays'.There are 115 players left and 60 make it to the money.I am dealt AKs in middle position. blinds are 400/800 and the player to my right makes it 3200 to go. He is an agressive player with the largest stack of the table. Immediatly i am all in and everyone folds to him. He thinks about 15sec and calls with 88. An 8 hits in the turn and i am out.I was thinking this play later, and i came up with a different approach from the 'all-in'. Why dont smooth call him having position? yes, maybe another player will be lured to limp too, but unless he has AA, KK i will get value for my money(If someone has AA,KK he will see my all-in anyway).If we suppose noone else calls, i have position over him after the flop. If he checks whatever the flop is i bet my last 7k for a better chance that he folds. If he bets whatever the flop is i call( i would have put my money anyway if i went all in b4 the flop).The point is that at that point i did not think that he would fold pre-flop even if he had 2 napkins.I would like to hear some opinions in thisThanks in Advance and excuse my poor grammar(Im Greek)

[HoosierAlum 0]

Read Harrington on Hold'em vol 1 and 2.

[Loismustdie 0]

Well, if an ace or king hits the flop you might be able to make him fold right there- just calling is the better option- you could reraise but he would probably just go over the top. Try not to go broke with A-K. We all say that but we all do it, trust me- I got busted by a measly 3-3 last week A-K vs. 3-3, and it held up. The guy had me covered, he wanted to gamble. I would have folded the threes, but that is just me. Point is, A-K is still a drawing hand, and you still had alot of chips. A heads up- don't post results in the same paragraph when your looking for advice. Do it later, after the advice comes.

[Spademan 94]

Well, if an ace or king hits the flop you might be able to make him fold right there- just calling is the better option- you could reraise but he would probably just go over the top.   Try not to go broke with A-K. We all say that but we all do it, trust me- I got busted by a measly 3-3 last week A-K vs. 3-3, and it held up. The guy had me covered, he wanted to gamble. I would have folded the threes, but that is just me. Point is, A-K is still a drawing hand, and you still had alot of chips.

If you pray you'll never lose that AK vs 33 race.Whoop, wrong thread, nvm.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

  Try not to go broke with A-K. We all say that but we all do it, trust me- I got busted by a measly 3-3 last week A-K vs. 3-3, and it held up. The guy had me covered, he wanted to gamble. I would have folded the threes, but that is just me. Point is, A-K is still a drawing hand, and you still had alot of chips.  

Where is My fishy, fishy fishy fish. You think, an aggressive raiser will only raise with pairs? I think you HAVE to go all in there, considering your chip position. Sure, you could be in a coin flip. It's even possible that he has AA, KK and you're screwed. But an agressive raiser will raise with MANY hands you have crusified, many aces, and a few kings. If you don't go all in pre flop, you give him the chance of folding hands like AJ post flop, which you don't want. If you're below par, you need to double up. Period.

[Loismustdie 0]

Try not to go broke with A-K. We all say that but we all do it, trust me- I got busted by a measly 3-3 last week A-K vs. 3-3, and it held up. The guy had me covered, he wanted to gamble. I would have folded the threes, but that is just me. Point is, A-K is still a drawing hand, and you still had alot of chips.

Where is My fishy, fishy fishy fish. You think, an aggressive raiser will only raise with pairs? I think you HAVE to go all in there, considering your chip position. Sure, you could be in a coin flip. It's even possible that he has AA, KK and you're screwed. But an agressive raiser will raise with MANY hands you have crusified, many aces, and a few kings. If you don't go all in pre flop, you give him the chance of folding hands like AJ post flop, which you don't want. If you're below par, you need to double up. Period.

Like I said, TRY not to go broke with A-K- there is value in just calling a raise at times. He said he would have 7,000 chips left if he would have just called. There are many times that I wish I would have just called, given what I could have done differently postflop. THAT IS ALL I AM SAYING- TRY NOT TO GO BROKE WITH A-K, AND I WOULD NOT BE THE FIRST PERSON TO ADVISE THIS.

[Loismustdie 0]

Put it this way- lets say flop comes XXX in my pocket 3 scenario- unless a 3 comes down I could have made that guy fold with just about any flop- there was no reason to create a race situation. Not all plays have to be all in preflop- and if you step back and analyze you will realize that. You do not always " Have to go broke there. " Sometimes, just trusting your ability to play postflop is enough.

[Drwnded 0]

"dont go broke w/A,K" is great advice, early in a tourney when your stack is deep relative to the blinds. that's not the case here. in this spot, you move in. you may well be way ahead in the hand, and even a coin flip is a good outcome for you with your chip position.

[Loismustdie 0]

I have been in many situations where I wish I would have just called, even though it would have been a 1/4 of my stack. Say, it's an A-K vs. 10-10 race and he rivers a ten- he may have folded those tens if an ace flops and I push all in on the flop, the ten never comes out becaase it is never dealt. Honestly I have played both ways- I don't have a problem calling a raise for 25% of my stack deep in a tourney, though- because I can always get it back by stealing blinds later. That is the one thing it sounds like the OP was not doing, and I can count on that with me, so a 25% fluxuation really is not that big of a deal.

[rog 0]

Put it this way- lets say flop comes XXX in my pocket 3 scenario- unless a 3 comes down I could have made that guy fold with just about any flop- there was no reason to create a race situation. Not all plays have to be all in preflop- and if you step back and analyze you will realize that.

I agree in general, but I'm not so sure in this case. If either of you go all-in on the flop, the other is getting almost 2:1 to call. I dont think you can get away from this hand very easily on the flop, and I dont think the big stack is going to back down to a play by a short stack when getting almost 2:1.

[CaneBrain 95]

Try not to go broke with A-K. We all say that but we all do it, trust me- I got busted by a measly 3-3 last week A-K vs. 3-3, and it held up. The guy had me covered, he wanted to gamble. I would have folded the threes, but that is just me. Point is, A-K is still a drawing hand, and you still had alot of chips.

Where is My fishy, fishy fishy fish. You think, an aggressive raiser will only raise with pairs? I think you HAVE to go all in there, considering your chip position. Sure, you could be in a coin flip. It's even possible that he has AA, KK and you're screwed. But an agressive raiser will raise with MANY hands you have crusified, many aces, and a few kings. If you don't go all in pre flop, you give him the chance of folding hands like AJ post flop, which you don't want. If you're below par, you need to double up. Period.

Like I said, TRY not to go broke with A-K- there is value in just calling a raise at times. He said he would have 7,000 chips left if he would have just called. There are many times that I wish I would have just called, given what I could have done differently postflop. THAT IS ALL I AM SAYING- TRY NOT TO GO BROKE WITH A-K, AND I WOULD NOT BE THE FIRST PERSON TO ADVISE THIS.

You were the first person to advise folding the nuts though.

[jeffgen 0]

Try not to go broke with A-K. We all say that but we all do it, trust me- I got busted by a measly 3-3 last week A-K vs. 3-3, and it held up. The guy had me covered, he wanted to gamble. I would have folded the threes, but that is just me. Point is, A-K is still a drawing hand, and you still had alot of chips.

Where is My fishy, fishy fishy fish. You think, an aggressive raiser will only raise with pairs? I think you HAVE to go all in there, considering your chip position. Sure, you could be in a coin flip. It's even possible that he has AA, KK and you're screwed. But an agressive raiser will raise with MANY hands you have crusified, many aces, and a few kings. If you don't go all in pre flop, you give him the chance of folding hands like AJ post flop, which you don't want. If you're below par, you need to double up. Period.

I agree... especially in this case. So if you let him see the flop before pushing, how will you know that the little 8 that just hit the board gave him a set? Now you push all in... doh! On the other hand, if it's early I'd play AK slower, but on the shorty I think you did the right thing.

[turd ferguson 1]

First of all, I would just like to say good first post. It was well written and concise. As far as your hand in the tourney goes, i think you have to make that play. If he's an aggressive player he could be raising with a lot of hands that you have dominated as well as coinflip situations. At this point in the tourney you're doing ok to race for your money because you need to make a move. You're goal is to win, not to sneak into the money and win your buy in back. You have to get lucky to win these things, and that means winning your share of races. With the blinds increasing quickly, you have to get in there and gamble. I like your play there. Keep it up.

[Booyakasha 0]

smooth calling is fine - AK is best heads up - but it is even better heads up and in position.Depending on how strong he is, you may be able to make him fold on the flop if you are in position.But, if you're worrried about others joining and you don't have enoough to make a meaningful raise without going all in - then I think your play is fine - heads up to double with AKs is not a bad position to be in.if he had AQ, AJ, A10 or KQ - we wouldn't even be having this convo - or even if you won the coin flip.

[mattster 0]

First of all, I would just like to say good first post. It was well written and concise. As far as your hand in the tourney goes, i think you have to make that play. If he's an aggressive player he could be raising with a lot of hands that you have dominated as well as coinflip situations. At this point in the tourney you're doing ok to race for your money because you need to make a move. You're goal is to win, not to sneak into the money and win your buy in back. You have to get lucky to win these things, and that means winning your share of races. With the blinds increasing quickly, you have to get in there and gamble. I like your play there. Keep it up.

You, my friend, has THE avatar.

[greggr 0]

First of all, i would like to thank everyone that replied or read my post.After reading all the replies and think this over a few times, i am back where i started: I gambled 11k for 24k (bb, sb, antes included) with a hand that, 95% was a coin flip or i was favorite. The numbers agree with me.Was there a better play? I cant say for sure, like i cant say for sure what would happen if i didnt broke up with that blondie in 11th grade (LOL).Also, considering the fact that i consider myself to be a fair tourney player(i even have won a 10+1 w/r and cashed once out of 10 in a 500k stars), i needed that money as soon as possible to load my arsenal and not just wait to make all in moves and blind steals.Thx again everyone see u in the court

[krup24 0]

I move all in here against an aggressive player in a rebuy tourney where I am below average in chips 10 out of 10 x.

[Poker4Me2005 0]

Against the player and given your position at the table and your chip stack you have to make that all-in play. Going all-in gives you the best chance of winning this hand because:1) You usually isolate against the raiser. AK is best in a heads up situation.2) You have fold equity You force him to fold a alot of hands to your reraise. You need to put him to the test.3)If he calls your most likely a coin flip or better. 4)AK is only a coinflip vs a lower pair if all 5 cards are dealt. Smooth calling here is a bad decision because:1) Another player may call the raise behind you with a marginal hand. All premium hands go down in value as more people enter the pot.2) You have no fold equity. You have no chance of winning the hand without the flop being dealt.3) If the flop improves his hand and/or he leads out into you you will be forced to fold unless you hit the flop. 4)If you hit the flop and he folds to your bet you arent maximizing your earning potential for the hand after you have a big advantage. Your basically giving him a way out of the hand when you hit but your commiting a large % of your chips to the pot even when you miss because your shortstacked.Losing with AK when your shortstacked is the way to go out of a tourney. Your not that close to the money at the point this hand took place. AK is the best hand to take a risk with because only AA is dominating AK preflop. Some of the other posters seem to disagree with the all-in reraise but statistically thats the way it is. You guys arent playing aggressive enough in those situations.

[SinPies 0]

I move all in here against an aggressive player in a rebuy tourney where I am below average in chips 10 out of 10 x.

Ditto. Aggressive raiser, dwindling chips ...Stop and go works better out of position so you have the right to first move after the flop--especially against an aggressive player. If you're in position and you just call and miss, your aggressive opponent has the opportunity to push in front of you, maybe even with a weaker hand than yours. Then what? Call all-in with ace high and two cards to come? In this situation you want to see all five cards with what is either a coin-flip or a dominating hand.

[HoosierAlum 0]

Calling is a good way to make the minimum and lose the maximum. You need to jam pre-flop with AK here to see all 5 cards. Louis, you should read an article written by Matt Matros about this type of situation in a recent issue of Cardplayer. But then again who am I to tell you......I'm a bad player because I don't fold the nuts like you do.

[TraptSteve 0]

I think the best move here is to just push. Another option would be to minimum raise his bet and push on the flop.This is a tournament, and as the levels rise you need to take a stand to stay alive. You were probably going to have to win that hand, and double up again to be in decent shape. The push was the correct move IMO, considering the tournament-senario surrounding it. If you up against a person with a similar stack size who appears to be a solid player, I'd try my second approach. The super-aggressive player wasn't going to lay his hand down there, which you don't mind because you needed to double up soon anyway.Another thing I beginning to learn from experience is that you MUST win coinflips in crucial situations to have legitimate shot at winning a tournament. You can play perfect poker in the early to middle rounds, but as soon as you start getting to the money possitions, unless you are sitting on a Raymer-like stack, you have to stay aggressive and be willing to get eliminated before the bubble.-Steve-0

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

  Try not to go broke with A-K. We all say that but we all do it, trust me- I got busted by a measly 3-3 last week A-K vs. 3-3, and it held up. The guy had me covered, he wanted to gamble. I would have folded the threes, but that is just me. Point is, A-K is still a drawing hand, and you still had alot of chips.  

Where is My fishy, fishy fishy fish. You think, an aggressive raiser will only raise with pairs? I think you HAVE to go all in there, considering your chip position. Sure, you could be in a coin flip. It's even possible that he has AA, KK and you're screwed. But an agressive raiser will raise with MANY hands you have crusified, many aces, and a few kings. If you don't go all in pre flop, you give him the chance of folding hands like AJ post flop, which you don't want. If you're below par, you need to double up. Period.

Like I said, TRY not to go broke with A-K- there is value in just calling a raise at times. He said he would have 7,000 chips left if he would have just called. There are many times that I wish I would have just called, given what I could have done differently postflop. THAT IS ALL I AM SAYING- TRY NOT TO GO BROKE WITH A-K, AND I WOULD NOT BE THE FIRST PERSON TO ADVISE THIS.

You were the first person to advise folding the nuts though.

Did no one notice that this man threw out the Jfarrello gauntlet? LOL

[Smasharoo 0]

Calling and pushing on a flop you miss is just so stunningly bad I can't begin to describe it.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Calling and pushing on a flop you miss is just so stunningly bad I can't begin to describe it.

Thank you, Smash!! okay, so if you have AK, and you go all in, the only hands that will fold, are ones you can already beat!! You don't give them a chance to bluff off their chips. This might be a more vaild strat, if you had like 6-5. But still donkish.

[dscoot 0]

maybe cuz the blinds are high and u are short u have to reraise allin in this situation. however, smooth calling a big raise with a big hand is a great way to make a lot of chips. provided u are a good post flop player. think about this, why give anyone any information about your hand? pretend that you were going to raise what the original raiser raised. y not just smooth call him? he did your dirty work, and since your now not the raiser, other players really got no idea about the strength of your hand.i realize i got a little lucky with some flops, but in this years world series main event, i smooth called others raises (3-5xbb) with ak about 3 or 4 times. i made decent hands and probably won around 55k in chips on those particular hands. in the world series everyone has plenty of chips, so reraising allin with ak or whatever , u aint gonna get a call by people u dominate. but , when u smooth call the agressor who is raising with kj sooted, and the king hits, and u hold ak. u can make serious dough...on the internet tho, with the escalating blinds, you shold probably go allin with ace king in this situation. however, since u said u knew for a fact the guy would call your all in with a small pair like 88 or even 33, i feel it is 100% wrong to move allin. at least take the chance of some picture cards hitting the flop so u can bet and they muck there tiny pair.