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Fold Or Raise The Turn?


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#1 tj9422-

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 12:39 PM

PokerStars Limit Hold'em, $1.50+$0.15 Tournament, 30/60 Blinds (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comHero's M: 14.56Preflop: Hero is BB with 5 :club:, 6 :5c1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, Button calls, SB calls, Hero checksFlop: (4 SB) J :ts, 4 :3h, 3 :4h (4 players)SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, 1 fold, SB calls, Hero callsTurn: (3.5 BB) 8 :qh (3 players)SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, SB calls, Hero folds had trouble with this hand just moved to table.

#2 potatoman

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 01:25 PM

No expert in limit, but I would probably lead the flop here. It's a pretty good flop for our hand, aside from flopping the straight, which isn't goint to happen very often.That way, we can play our hand aggressively, increase our chances of winning the hand, win a bigger pot if we hit our hand and probably have a better sense of where we are in the hand.Maybe?I think raising the turn, as played would be bad. I don't see the value in it.

#3 Zach6668

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 01:28 PM

Why does this have to be fold or raise?I don't care either way on leading the flop or c/c'ing. Leading is probably a bit better, I dunno. It's close, anyways.I think folding or raising this turn is a mistake.
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#4 tj9422-

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 01:43 PM

View PostZach6668, on Wednesday, January 28th, 2009, 4:28 PM, said:

Why does this have to be fold or raise?I don't care either way on leading the flop or c/c'ing. Leading is probably a bit better, I dunno. It's close, anyways.I think folding or raising this turn is a mistake.
So you would call?

#5 DinkDonk

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 01:45 PM

View Posttj9422-, on Wednesday, January 28th, 2009, 4:43 PM, said:

So you would call?
Calling>>>Raising>>>>>>>>>>>Folding

#6 pokerinc

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 02:05 PM

yeah i c/c the turn, and the flop, not leading into the limper field.
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#7 Zach6668

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 02:43 PM

View Posttj9422-, on Wednesday, January 28th, 2009, 4:43 PM, said:

So you would call?
Unless I can use all-in protection or something, call seems to be the only option left. :club:
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
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QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
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#8 TheCinciKid

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 03:04 PM

I've never been successful in limit tournamants (I'm a cash game guy), so you can take my thoughts with a grain of salt.I like your flop play here, I think you're getting good enough odds to call the turn, but it's close with two potential flush draws and since it's a tournament and conserving your chips has some importance, I don't hate a fold. I probably call the turn here and play the river very carefully if you make your straight, but a flush comes in.
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#9 GUGA KUERTEN

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Posted 28 January 2009 - 04:09 PM

Flop: betAs played its close btwn calling or folding cause I think you have to discount your outs to 6.I think your fold its good and avoid trouble if a red 2 or 7 hit the river :club:

#10 GCP

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Posted 04 February 2009 - 08:24 PM

Keep in mind that a 7 completes a few other straights as well.

#11 Viper_13

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 04:16 PM

I'm a little confused as to why calling is best (Dink and Zach). Odds to hit 8 outs on the river is about 5-1. I'm not sure we can make up the difference. Plus there is a decent chance two of those outs aren't good. I don't think the 5 or 6 is good much either. Is there something I'm missing?
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#12 DinkDonk

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 08:11 PM

View PostViper_13, on Thursday, February 5th, 2009, 7:16 PM, said:

I'm a little confused as to why calling is best (Dink and Zach). Odds to hit 8 outs on the river is about 5-1. I'm not sure we can make up the difference. Plus there is a decent chance two of those outs aren't good. I don't think the 5 or 6 is good much either. Is there something I'm missing?
Make up what difference? We're getting 5.5 to 1 with great implied odds here in a 3 way pot. We're closing the action. And also with this action, 5's and 6's are good a non-zero percentage of the time, making up a bit for the discount on our outs that complete a flush.To whoever said 7's complete some higher straights- if someone got to this point with 9T (the only higher straight a 7 completes), then so be it. They would have had to limp it, peel a J high flop with naught but backdoor draws, and then get there with a 7. That concern is so minute, you shouldn't bother even worrying about it. This isn't PLO.I really don't think this is close. Call.

#13 checkymcfold

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Posted 05 February 2009 - 08:24 PM

fold: silly since we have odds to call.raise: i sincerely doubt that we're folding off a better hand considering the way that utg+1 played it, and i would not be worrying about balancing (the other reason to raise) in a tournament, much less a 1.50 one.ergo, call.
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#14 Viper_13

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Posted 06 February 2009 - 08:16 AM

My apologies. I haven't posted hands in a while and misread the converter. I read it as 3.5 bets in the pot including the turn action.
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#15 Andynice20

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Posted 09 February 2009 - 07:12 PM

Just my two cents, but I'm ramming and jamming the flop and turn and def seeing the river.But I'm a cash game guy...


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#16 Zach6668

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 04:40 AM

View PostAndynice20, on Monday, February 9th, 2009, 10:12 PM, said:

Just my two cents, but I'm ramming and jamming the flop and turn and def seeing the river.But I'm a cash game guy...
Ramming and jamming just an oesd in this spot is a leak in a cash game, as well as a tourney.
QUOTE (serge @ Tuesday, May 12th, 2009, 7:20 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
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QUOTE (Acid_Knight @ Monday, March 10th, 2008, 4:15 PM) <{POST_SNAPBACK}>
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#17 DinkDonk

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Posted 10 February 2009 - 05:07 AM

View PostZach6668, on Tuesday, February 10th, 2009, 7:40 AM, said:

Ramming and jamming just an oesd in this spot is a leak in a cash game, as well as a tourney.
Yep.You need to understand WHY you do things. Do you do that for fold equity? Because I feel you'd have little to none. Do you do it for equity purposes? Because you don't have enough on either street, especially not the turn, and you are cutting away your own implied odds by doing so. For balance? Unnecessary and far too costly.

#18 pg_780

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 06:47 PM

View Posttj9422-, on Wednesday, January 28th, 2009, 1:39 PM, said:

PokerStars Limit Hold'em, $1.50+$0.15 Tournament, 30/60 Blinds (8 handed) - Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comHero's M: 14.56Preflop: Hero is BB with 5 :club:, 6 :5c1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, Button calls, SB calls, Hero checksFlop: (4 SB) J :ts, 4 :3h, 3 :4h (4 players)SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, 1 fold, SB calls, Hero callsTurn: (3.5 BB) 8 :qh (3 players)SB checks, Hero checks, UTG+1 bets, SB calls, Hero folds had trouble with this hand just moved to table.I would have lead out at the flop, or even check raised the flop. The guy's bet on the flop does not necissarily mean a pair--most limit players bet in positon when its checked around. If he had no pair, and you check raised him, you win it on the turn when a rag comes off. With the way you played it, however, a check-call on the turn is the play for sure.


#19 pg_780

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 06:54 PM

oh--my bad it was UTG +1 that bet, not the button....check raise flop not the greatest

#20 pg_780

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Posted 13 February 2009 - 06:58 PM

Oh, my bad....I thought it was the button that bet the flop--Check rz flop not the greatest




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