1 Table Sng Quiz Question

[donk4life 34]

It is really really really difficult to play smallball when you start with 1500 chips and the blinds increase much faster than a higher buy-in live tournament.

[JSpencer 0]

" strategy which involves playing lots of marginal hands with medium-size raises, and maneuvering your opponents after the flop. The idea is to create an image of yourself as a maniac while you're really not."

I can do that too

Small ball poker is intended to primarily be used in MTTs as opposed to SNGs and cash games.

And my original statement is still correct. The main purpose of small ball poker is pot control. You want to play abig pot when you have a big hand and a small one when you have a marginal hand. Playing with a marginalhand with the intent of stacking off someone at the table is not its main goal.

[Agent 008 0]

I can do that tooAnd my original statement is still correct. The main purpose of small ball poker is pot control. You want to play abig pot when you have a big hand and a small one when you have a marginal hand. Playing with a marginalhand with the intent of stacking off someone at the table is not its main goal.

I agree, that wasn't the best play preflop for a SnG, but my losses would have been minimal had I only had a marginal hand post-flop and found that I couldn't outplay my opponent.Anyway, that's somewhat beside the point of this thread.

[cashman 0]

Did you make this post to try and point out what a good read you made? You pose a question that is painfully obvious. All the real questions were on everything except what you had to do in that spot. You were trying to play small ball in a 1500 stack sit n go. Seriously? Once you hit the miracle flop you had to call him down regardless of what he actually ended up having. Way too many of his possible hands were behind your two pair so you had to call there. Look through these responses and you will see that your question was not really even being debated. Everyone else focused on how poor your preflop raise was. Calling the all in was a snap call. Try not to be solely results oriented. This hand was played very poorly. Tight is right early on in sit n gos and small ball is impossible w/1500 starting stacks.

[cdipierr 0]

These level posts really need to stop. It's just painful at this point.

[Agent 008 0]

Did you make this post to try and point out what a good read you made? You pose a question that is painfully obvious. All the real questions were on everything except what you had to do in that spot. [...]Calling the all in was a snap call.

I don't agree with this. I have explained why I think calling in this situation is worse than folding.The reason why I made this thread is because my first reaction was to call it as well, but the more I think about it, the more I get convinced that folding in that situation was correct - if my assumptions about my opponent are true:1). He is not suicidal.2). He assumes that I am not suicidal.

[TrueAce13 18]

I don't agree with this. I have explained why I think calling in this situation is worse than folding.The reason why I made this thread is because my first reaction was to call it as well, but the more I think about it, the more I get convinced that folding in that situation was correct - if my assumptions about my opponent are true:1). He is not suicidal.2). He assumes that I am not suicidal.

AND THIS RIGHT HERE IS THE REASON WE DON'T RAISE J7s PF...b/c we get into this stupid situations!

[outsider13 0]

I still think you should have shove in your poll. That's why I didn't vote and I think that's your best option.

[nutzzcase 0]

AND THIS RIGHT HERE IS THE REASON WE DON'T RAISE J7s PF...b/c we get into this stupid situations!

oh come on...this is a very unlucky (unlikely situation).....what if you raise KJ or K10 on the button and BB calls you with KQ....and there's a king on the flop...are you going to fold K10 KJ on the button preflop?

[Agent 008 0]

AND THIS RIGHT HERE IS THE REASON NOT TO PLAY POKER...b/c we get into this stupid situations!

Fix'd.But really, deepstack post-flop play is all about situations like that. Even if you flop the nuts, you are in a "stupid situation" trying to get full value.

[Agent 008 0]

I still think you should have shove in your poll. That's why I didn't vote and I think that's your best option.

You mean on the flop after his check-raise?I have replied to that in one of the posts above, and why I don't like that play in this situation.To sum it up, I think against that kind of opponent we are going to make him fold most of the hands that we are beating, and call us with any hand that beats ours.A 3-outer that he may have does not concern me very much either.So I don't see what the real benefit of shoving there is.

[Mills 0]

LOL at this thread still happening

[nutzzcase 0]

You mean on the flop after his check-raise?I have replied to that in one of the posts above, and why I don't like that play in this situation.To sum it up, I think against that kind of opponent we are going to make him fold most of the hands that we are beating, and call us with any hand that beats ours.A 3-outer that he may have does not concern me very much either.So I don't see what the real benefit of shoving there is.

don't agree with this....there are a lot of cards that are going to make you lose some value, lets says an ace comes on the turn that would hit a lot of his range and yougonna have to check the turn or river for pot control.

[nutzzcase 0]

LOL at this thread still happening

seriously lol, im gonna stop posting now. So, OP should have gone broke with the hand and raising j7s on the button isn't that bad if you are "good" post flop and stacks are deep enough. Btw I hate playing 9players sit and goes on PS because i know you have to wait until blinds are big enough to stack other players with strong hands hoping you are dominating them (but in most cases it's a coin flip).

[Agent 008 0]

don't agree with this....there are a lot of cards that are going to make you lose some value, lets says an ace comes on the turn that would hit a lot of his range and yougonna have to check the turn or river for pot control.

Sure. But it'll also give me a better chance at defining the strength of his hand - letting me make more appropriate plays for value or cutting my losses if I am likely to be beat. I think, with my style of play against those guys, I'd win more chips on average by calling rather than shoving. But it does seem marginal to me.

[outsider13 0]

You mean on the flop after his check-raise?I have replied to that in one of the posts above, and why I don't like that play in this situation.To sum it up, I think against that kind of opponent we are going to make him fold most of the hands that we are beating, and call us with any hand that beats ours.A 3-outer that he may have does not concern me very much either.So I don't see what the real benefit of shoving there is.

After the check raise, you shove.edit, this is why. Put him on a range, not a hand that crushes you.

	Board: Ks 7h JcDead:  	equity 	win 	tie 		  pots won 	pots tied	Hand 0: 	68.093%	  68.09% 	00.00% 			 35727 			1.50   { Js7s }Hand 1: 	31.907%	  31.90% 	00.00% 			 16740 			1.50   { JJ-77, K9s+, KTo+ }

[Agent 008 0]

After the check raise, you shove.edit, this is why. Put him on a range, not a hand that crushes you.

	Board: Ks 7h JcDead:  	equity 	win 	tie 		  pots won 	pots tied	Hand 0: 	68.093%	  68.09% 	00.00% 			 35727 			1.50   { Js7s }Hand 1: 	31.907%	  31.90% 	00.00% 			 16740 			1.50   { JJ-77, K9s+, KTo+ }

But what hands out of that range will he call you with that you can beat?I think AK, maybe KQ. J7 for a tie (he was in the bb, after all).If you think he'd be calling you with most of the hands you listed, then sure, shoving is significantly better than calling.

[outsider13 0]

But what hands out of that range will he call you with that you can beat?I think AK, maybe KQ. J7 for a tie (he was in the bb, after all).If you think he'd be calling you with most of the hands you listed, then sure, shoving is significantly better than calling.

I think if a player in a $5 sng check raises you, he's willing to get it in.

[JSpencer 0]

I don't agree with this. I have explained why I think calling in this situation is worse than folding.The reason why I made this thread is because my first reaction was to call it as well, but the more I think about it, the more I get convinced that folding in that situation was correct - if my assumptions about my opponent are true:1). He is not suicidal.2). He assumes that I am not suicidal.

There are so many things wrong with this I don't even know where to start. Why are you raising with J 7 pre flop and then folding when you have 2 pair? Why are we calling the flop and turn to fold on the river? And are you really going to fold when flopping 2 pair? Fold Pre flop and problem is solved.

oh come on...this is a very unlucky (unlikely situation).....what if you raise KJ or K10 on the button and BB calls you with KQ....and there's a king on the flop...are you going to fold K10 KJ on the button preflop?

It's not really that unlikely at all. That # of flops that we can feel comfortable on with J 7 suited are very few.

Fix'd.But really, deepstack post-flop play is all about situations like that. Even if you flop the nuts, you are in a "stupid situation" trying to get full value.

^ This also makes me want to cry. #1 deepstack play is A MILLION times different than playing a SnG with 1500 chips. I have no idea how you can even relate the two. And trying to extract the maximum value is a much better situation than calling off all of your chips with J 7 first hand into a SnG when you could be easily crushed.

seriously lol, im gonna stop posting now. So, OP should have gone broke with the hand and raising j7s on the button isn't that bad

It isn't bad. It's awful. And you should be shot for thinking otherwise.

I think if a player in a $5 sng check raises you, he's willing to get it in.

^ This is also true. Play at these limits can be a bit funky and people can play a much wider range of hands. But honestly, that is more of a reason to tighten up if anything.

[nutzzcase 0]

geez Jspencer you are a bigger douche than lurbz

[JSpencer 0]

geez Jspencer you are a bigger douche than lurbz

I used the to make it less douchey. I'm sorry it didn't work

[Agent 008 0]

There are so many things wrong with this I don't even know where to start. Why are you raising with J 7 pre flop and then folding when you have 2 pair? Why are we calling the flop and turn to fold on the river? And are you really going to fold when flopping 2 pair? Fold Pre flop and problem is solved.

Protip: the action that we see preflop, on the flop, on the turn and on the river all give us extra information.

It's not really that unlikely at all. That # of flops that we can feel comfortable on with J 7 suited are very few.

I suppose you're right. Next time I'll only play suited aces, and I'll shove them preflop.

^ This also makes me want to cry. #1 deepstack play is A MILLION times different than playing a SnG with 1500 chips. I have no idea how you can even relate the two. And trying to extract the maximum value is a much better situation than calling off all of your chips with J 7 first hand into a SnG when you could be easily crushed.

1). 150bb is considered a pretty deep stack where I live. What kind of stacks do you guys play with?!2). You've got to be kidding me.

[JSpencer 0]

Protip: the action that we see preflop, on the flop, on the turn and on the river all give us extra information.I suppose you're right. Next time I'll only play suited aces, and I'll shove them preflop.1). 150bb is considered a pretty deep stack where I live. What kind of stacks do you guys play with?!2). You've got to be kidding me.

[cashman 0]

Protip: the action that we see preflop, on the flop, on the turn and on the river all give us extra information.I suppose you're right. Next time I'll only play suited aces, and I'll shove them preflop.1). 150bb is considered a pretty deep stack where I live. What kind of stacks do you guys play with?!2). You've got to be kidding me.

[cashman 0]

Protip: the action that we see preflop, on the flop, on the turn and on the river all give us extra information.I suppose you're right. Next time I'll only play suited aces, and I'll shove them preflop.1). 150bb is considered a pretty deep stack where I live. What kind of stacks do you guys play with?!2). You've got to be kidding me.

wow, you are serious aren't you!!! What site do you play on? i think i speak for everyone when i say i would love to play in sit n gos w/you. you are absolutely clueless and you don't even realize it. my advice would be to play free poker until you learn how to play.