Jump to content

So, You Want To Fold Kk Preflop, Eh?


Recommended Posts

DAgostino = Donk?Full Tilt Poker Game #674500591: Table Pirates Cove - $25/$50 - No Limit Hold'em - 0:35:13 ET - 2006/05/30SpacepimpX (Observer): yeah he doeschickenchaomein (Observer): everyone is so scared of him nowSeat 1: JFrank ($7,401)Seat 2: nestegg1 ($18,903.15), is sitting outSeat 3: John DAgostino ($10,161)Seat 4: cole0707 ($1,223.20)Seat 5: tsarrast ($12,265), is sitting outSeat 6: NMDynasty ($10,742.60)Seat 7: Urindanger ($7,219)Seat 8: BGSutton ($5,000)Seat 9: Ca_dreamin_1 ($5,000)John DAgostino posts the small blind of $25cole0707 posts the big blind of $50The button is in seat #1*** HOLE CARDS ***NMDynasty foldsUrindanger foldsBGSutton calls $50Ca_dreamin_1 raises to $225JFrank foldsJohn DAgostino raises to $775cole0707 foldsBGSutton foldsCa_dreamin_1 raises to $5,000, and is all inJohn DAgostino: uh ohJohn DAgostino: im not good enough to foldJohn DAgostino has 15 seconds left to actJohn DAgostino calls $4,225Wait for it.....keep waiting..Remember, at this level, you gotta be able to lay KK down preflop...Ready?Ca_dreamin_1 shows [Kh Ad]John DAgostino shows [Ks Kd]*** FLOP *** [Kc 7h 6c]*** TURN *** [Kc 7h 6c] [2h]*** RIVER *** [Kc 7h 6c 2h] [Td]Ca_dreamin_1 shows a pair of KingsJohn DAgostino shows three of a kind, KingsJohn DAgostino wins the pot ($10,097) with three of a kind, KingsCa_dreamin_1 is sitting out*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $10,100 | Rake $3CA's play isn't horrible.. He has one ace, which means DAgostino is less likely to have AA. He'll suck out against KK part of the time..and QQ and JJ probably fold. Just sayin'.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 58
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

It was only the 3rd raise - Phil Gordon says that only the 4th raise always means aces.Easy call (sw)
From the WSOP, Ivey raised, Black reraised, Ivey rereraised, Black rerereraised, Ivey folds. Black shows A2.Nice job Phil Gordon.
Link to post
Share on other sites

I am proud to say I have never folded KK preflop once. Don't plan on doing it any time soon either. It is going to take A LOT of preflop action to fold it and I doubt there is any chance I do it with just 2 people in the pot. As JDags said, " I am just not good enough." Or for those that do fold KK preflop, maybe you are laying down the best hand. Just sayin' :club:

Link to post
Share on other sites

Not nearly as impressive as D'Ags...but something "similar" happened to me last night...Pokershare 2/4 NLHE (6-handed)Cobalt is MP w/ KK.Pre-flop:UTG calls, Cobalt raises to $16, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG goes all-in for $150, Cobalt calls, 2 foldsUTG shows AK. Board blanks. Cobalt wins big pot.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Not nearly as impressive as D'Ags...but something "similar" happened to me last night...Pokershare 2/4 NLHE (6-handed)Cobalt is MP w/ KK.Pre-flop:UTG calls, Cobalt raises to $16, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG goes all-in for $150, Cobalt calls, 2 foldsUTG shows AK. Board blanks. Cobalt wins big pot.
Beautiful.That's why Cobalt is my favorite NLHE player on this site.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Not nearly as impressive as D'Ags...but something "similar" happened to me last night...Pokershare 2/4 NLHE (6-handed)Cobalt is MP w/ KK.Pre-flop:UTG calls, Cobalt raises to $16, CO calls, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG goes all-in for $150, Cobalt calls, 2 foldsUTG shows AK. Board blanks. Cobalt wins big pot.
come on, not even a buy in!donk.- Jordan
Link to post
Share on other sites
Best response, ever.Not sure why, just struck me as funny.
People with AK like to see all 5 cards.isn't that a quote of VVP or mike sexton? if that's the case then i fully understand why you may have found it funny, yet can't finger point why...bingo bango bombo- Jordan
Link to post
Share on other sites
CA's play isn't horrible.. He has one ace, which means DAgostino is less likely to have AA. He'll suck out against KK part of the time..and QQ and JJ probably fold. Just sayin'.
CA's play was horrible. He should have known that, at best, it was a coin flip. D'ags' reraise to $775 should've signaled a big pocket pair. CA had one king, which means DAgostino is less likely to have KK, but he did have KK. He'll suck out against KK part of the time (3 times out of 10) QQ and JJ probably fold might fold. CA's better play, if he wanted to push it, would have been to reraise to $2000. If D'ags pushed, he could have laid it down and lost only $2000. If D'ags called, CA could have played the flop and pushed if an ace hit the flop. The king high flop was the worst for CA in this case.I know that all of this is easy to say, looking back, but this is how people are supposed to learn. AK is attractive but it's an underdog to 22 preflop. I try to remember that, if I hold AK, I'm only going to pair up on the flop about 35% of the time.
Link to post
Share on other sites
CA's play was horrible. He should have known that, at best, it was a coin flip. D'ags' reraise to $775 should've signaled a big pocket pair. CA had one king, which means DAgostino is less likely to have KK, but he did have KK. He'll suck out against KK part of the time (3 times out of 10) QQ and JJ probably fold might fold. CA's better play, if he wanted to push it, would have been to reraise to $2000. If D'ags pushed, he could have laid it down and lost only $2000. If D'ags called, CA could have played the flop and pushed if an ace hit the flop. The king high flop was the worst for CA in this case.I know that all of this is easy to say, looking back, but this is how people are supposed to learn. AK is attractive but it's an underdog to 22 preflop. I try to remember that, if I hold AK, I'm only going to pair up on the flop about 35% of the time.
Are you just ripping this from Phil Hellmuth's book word-for-word? Honestly..it's not that horrible of a play. He is less likely to have AA or KK for the fact that he holds AK. That means he's more likely to have QQ or JJ--which means it's a better push. Trapping extra money in the pot in the midst of a 'coinflip'--if that's what you want to call AK vs QQ/JJ(though, it's not a coinflip, almost 3:2, even)--is always a good thing. The fact he had AK instead of A4 is pretty irrelevant, really. QQ and JJ are very likely laying down to a push there. Sure, we're benefitted by the fact that we take one of his 'set cards' incase we do spike an ace, but, it's really a moot point. We're just looking to have the A incase we get called by KK. ..but, then again, I guess I should be laying down my AK if I know someone's pushing with deuces? But I should be calling with JTs if someone's pushing with 22, right? I never said it was a good play with the AK, I said it wasn't THAT bad. Thanks for explaining the most finite points of hold'em strategy though.OH, and raising to 2k there is awful. Let's put ourselves into a situation where we'll have no fold equity on a 9 high flop if D'Agostino happens to smooth call our 2k raise. Sure, we can drop our AK with a -2k loss instead of a -5k loss, but, we've pretty much guaranteed that our table image is shot and our raises will be respected never again. ..and we make sure we never rake in a big pot preflop when we get QQ and JJ to fold by way of the push. I'm done rambling now.
Link to post
Share on other sites
CA's play was horrible. He should have known that, at best, it was a coin flip. D'ags' reraise to $775 should've signaled a big pocket pair. CA had one king, which means DAgostino is less likely to have KK, but he did have KK. He'll suck out against KK part of the time (3 times out of 10) QQ and JJ probably fold might fold. CA's better play, if he wanted to push it, would have been to reraise to $2000. If D'ags pushed, he could have laid it down and lost only $2000. If D'ags called, CA could have played the flop and pushed if an ace hit the flop. The king high flop was the worst for CA in this case.I know that all of this is easy to say, looking back, but this is how people are supposed to learn. AK is attractive but it's an underdog to 22 preflop. I try to remember that, if I hold AK, I'm only going to pair up on the flop about 35% of the time.
Do the combos.What is it 3 combos of AA, 3 combos of KK, 6 combos of QQ, 6 combos of JJYou throw in AK and potentially AQ or 1010 into the mix and its pretty obvious that he has the fold equity to make it a relatively ok play.And yea AK is an underdog to 22 preflop, but if jdags has 22 here then CA is actually a 100% fav.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Just responding off the top of my head. I'll take your question as a compliment, though.Good.
Sure, slightly complimentary...so..thanks for not responding to any of the ACTUAL information in my post. Means I don't have to prove you wrong again. Appreciate it.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Sure, slightly complimentary...so..thanks for not responding to any of the ACTUAL information in my post. Means I don't have to prove you wrong again. Appreciate it.
Have yourself a Stoli on me, Erik. You've been legal to drink and play poker in US casinos for all of 14 months now, so I gues that you think that you know it all?Feel free to ramble some more!
Link to post
Share on other sites
Have yourself a Stoli on me, Erik. You've been legal to drink and play poker in US casinos for all of 14 months now, so I gues that you think that you know it all?Feel free to ramble some more!
..you infer that I ramble incessantly about that which I don't know, but..Indian Casinos = 18 years of age. Game, set, match. Goodnight.Edit; BTW, I hate Stoli--Grey Goose, please.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Back on the original point here, I don't remember anyone (anyone remotely intelligent anyway), claiming that you should always lay down KK to a good player on the third raise. What some people were saying is that sometimes you can get such a good read that you know you're behind. As in you know the person you're playing against is absolutely not going to raise there without AA or KK. This can occasionally make laying down KK profitable.Well, the other time you might have to lay down kings is when you're really deep-stacked and you just know that you're up against a solid player. Still though, I don't think that an opponent with 100 BB behind who goes all-in after one reraise is really a prime "have to lay down KK" type of situation.For the record, I have never layed down KK preflop in my life, and if I've layed down QQ preflop, it was probably only once or twice. Oh, and I don't know how I got sucked into this discussion again. This kind of **** is part of the reason I've grown to hate hold 'em.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Back on the original point here..--snip--This kind of **** is part of the reason I've grown to hate hold 'em.
The original point was purely for my amusement's sake. I do all my real discussion/strat talk in the NLHE strat forum. Stop by there more often, I enjoy your thoughts.
Link to post
Share on other sites
People with AK like to see all 5 cards.isn't that a quote of VVP or mike sexton? if that's the case then i fully understand why you may have found it funny, yet can't finger point why...bingo bango bombo- Jordan
It's bingo bango bongo.Donk.PS -- Mentioning Grey Goose suddenly made me very thirsty. Is it wrong to want to drink at 8:15 on a Tuesday morning?
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Announcements


×
×
  • Create New...