religion should be kept out of poker

[pokerhoney28 0]

You guys are missing the POINT. All I said was that it is Wrong to Thank GOD for helping you win at POKER. Daniel stated he played better because of GOD ( generalization). I totally disagree with fact that God would aknowledge Daniels Poker status when there are kids starving, people dying and desease being fought. You should Thank God for your Good Fortunes, Health and FAmily but not for winning at Poker.The same goes for a soccer player when they score a GOAL. GOd helped me score the goal??Thats is ridiculous man! Also you all act like Beating someone at Poker is a regular JOb? Who are you kidding. IT is gambling at its deepest Core. I play Poker but Admit it is not an admirable thing. I choose to play just as others choose to play. Whether it is a profession, hobby or a great rush we all have our reasons. YOu don't deserve a Pulitser Prize or a library named after you for being a poker player. YOu just play cards man! PS. I totally believe in free democracy. CAnadian Style. First and foremost everyone must have the same education and medical care. The rest is all up in the air for grabs!!

Correction.....poker is a skill game, not gambling.For DN winning at poker...like all poker professionals that is their job: to WIN!!Blackjack is gamblingSlots are gambling.....Gambling on sports....Gambling on Horses....dogs...need I go on?Gambling in its truest definition: To bet on an uncertain outcome, as of a contest.To play a game of chance for stakes.To take a risk in the hope of gaining an advantage or a benefit.To engage in reckless or hazardous behavior: You are gambling with your health by continuing to smoke.Poker is somewhat a game of chance, however it is by using you're skill in playing the players, not just you're cards that makes it a game of skill...not complete chance. The only thing that is chance is the cards uncertainty. Then again you have control on when to hold 'em or fold 'em.However, when you are playing against other players and it is based on the best 5 card hand or whatever card game. That is all skill, there is no gambling involved. You can play for no money. Money just adds to the excitement of the game. By Daniel praising God, in actuality is thanking him for blessing him with a gift(talent) for poker. God wants us to praise him when we are blessed with something great. It's our way of saying "Thanks God."Taken from the site: http://www.newgenius.com/religion/blessingab.htmGod not only gives people money, food, clothing, shelter, and other things that are necessary for life, but he also gives people talents that they can use to help others and themselves. That includes the gifts to be able to play poker.I am a Christian, I'm not a Bible thumper. However, it is our human right to have the Right to Free Speech. And Daniel has that right, just like anyone of us to talk about what we choose. Those are our freedoms. And for you to say that it's wrong, is also your human right. If you still have any questions about Poker being a game of skill or is it gambling here is another site who can put a different spin on it and you can draw your own conclusion: http://www.cardplayer.com/poker_magazine/a...d=12519&m_id=31

[cemo76 0]

You make some valid points. I respect that. Daniel can Thank who ever he wants, no questions asked. I was just pointing out that others (not me) could take offence. BUt it is Freedom Of Speech which is what makes it a beautiful thing.I do disagree with you that Poker is Not gambing. It is GAmbling against others with more thought and mental game then other events. I do agree that you need more skill to win at poker, but the same can be said for Blackjack players that count cards ??

[pokerhoney28 0]

I was just curious about that b/cAs I gave earlier....the definition of gambling: To bet on an uncertain outcome, as of a contest. To play a game of chance for stakes. To take a risk in the hope of gaining an advantage or a benefit. To engage in reckless or hazardous behavior: You are gambling with your health by continuing to smoke. By playing for fun with no stakes of any kind involved does not make it gambling. [/b]

[pokerhoney28 0]

If you have any further disagreements on wether poker is gambling here is a site for you: http://www.gambling-us.com/poker.htmlOh and I do stand corrected Black Jack is a game of skill as well.

[cemo76 0]

Hun, You are starting to get annoying!!!I know you haven't gotten any in 28 years but lay of my post's you NERD:)What the hell was that essay you wrote in the "woman players are easy" forum. Damn, If I wanted to take a course on Feminism I would have enrolled. Anyway, Who said we were playing poker for fun. MAybe you play strip poker wih your Butch girlfriends but others are a little more serious. Get it through your THICK DYKE head. POKER IS GAMBLING! Men are better at it. Bottom line. If you need proof let me know when you are on line at ultimatebet.com anytime any stakes! I don't think I can make it out to your trailor in NEBRASKA anytime soon.Sincerly THE MAN!

[pokerhoney28 0]

Well.....hmmm seems to me that whatever neanderthalic ideas that you have about me, are just proof enough that you are a blabbering and chauvanistic pig/ idiot. If you choose to respond with childish name calling and stereotypical (aka calling me a dyke because you think I'm a feminist and I have the sources behind what I am saying that agree with me; based on your opinion and it doesn't agree with you- because I have a brain) Then I pity your life and your extremely twisted thought process. Just like yourself, I have a right to express my opinion and when someone is calling me weak and a poor player because I am a woman....I will backup my argument and "shit" so to speak with sources and evidence. That does not in any context make me a lesbian/ dyke, or a feminist.

[neretva 0]

Disclaimer: I am an atheist and extremely proud of it. The bottom line in all of this is that religious conviction is based on faith, not logic. You are all making the mistake of attempting to use deductive and inductive reasoning to determine if gambling is or is not God's will.God is an invention of man, therefore one can make the case that gambling is His will. Or it is not. There can never be Truth in this discussion since God's will is postulated as being unknowable. Any attempt to debate what is postulated as unknowable must, by definition and necessity, degenerate into total subjectivity.Therefore, DN saying that he lives a Godly life is unassailable. Such a life is basically whatever you want it to be, therefore it is self-contradictory to argue for or against.Morals have nothing whatsoever to do with religion. Therefore, the question must be asked whether the life of a professional gambler can be a moral life. The answer is clearly: Of course it can. As long as a gambler is unfailingly honest, he can lead the same moral life as the rest of us.If the measure of a good life is self-gratification, a gambler leads a very moral life. If the standard is compassion and helping those less fortunate, then most gamblers do NOT lead moral lives. However, DN does because he is obviously compassionate and he has used his money to help those less fortunate. Not that he has to. But he does. Therefore he is leading a good life. Period. Accumulating some cars or homes is NOT a sin. If it were, I'd hate to see where Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell are going to end up. Or the Pope for that matter...The bottom line is: It is not what you believe in, but what you do, that will "echo in eternity". -Marc

[RodReynolds 87]

I'd just like to add a point to this discussion which seems to have wrapped up. I think, arguing from a biblical perspective, that this is a difficult question regarding whether professional poker playing can be merged with Christianity. As Daniel mentioned, God does provide people with gifts which are able to make large sums of money in order to fund his causes. However, it is also clear (to me at least) that the Bible says that our work is to be "useful". Now, I guess it is debatable as to whether or not "useful" means the end result of our work (ie the good that is done with the money we make), or the actual work itself. It seems that God is concerned with the actual work we do, that it must be useful, purposeful, achieving a goal. I think most of us can agree that poker is at best fundamentally useless. It is a zero sum game, passing money back and forth. I suppose you could argue that professional poker players are providing "entertainment" to those they are playing with, and I suppose I shouldn't glibly brush that aside. But maybe I will. Daniel mentions that poker is similar to playing in the NBA, or investing in stocks. Most or all of his examples though are different from poker in the sense that there is a purpose in these other activities. In the NBA, players are providing entertainment . In investing, you are providing capital for companies to grow and presumably serve society in some way. I know that this is a bit simplistic and that most areas of business have been corrupted to a form that is far from the ideal. However I think it is dangerous to equate them to poker in some way and therefore state that since we've accepted the other things as ok, that poker is ok too. It is wise to argue from first principles whatever those first principles may be. I have by no means sorted this all out in my own mind, and I'm sure there are many errors and missteps in logic in my above post. I am very open to correction (or I think I am), and a discussion.

[Jennings7 0]

God can be everywhere at once. He is all powerful. Saying he wouldn't care about one thing due to other things is obsurd. It's not like he has to focus on one thing at a time. He has total power. So don't use the line "there are people starving so god doesn't have the time to help Daniel."

[tommyrotten 0]

Disclaimer: I am an atheist and extremely proud of it. The bottom line in all of this is that religious conviction is based on faith, not logic. You are all making the mistake of attempting to use deductive and inductive reasoning to determine if gambling is or is not God's will.God is an invention of man, therefore one can make the case that gambling is His will. Or it is not. There can never be Truth in this discussion since God's will is postulated as being unknowable. Any attempt to debate what is postulated as unknowable must, by definition and necessity, degenerate into total subjectivity.Therefore, DN saying that he lives a Godly life is unassailable. Such a life is basically whatever you want it to be, therefore it is self-contradictory to argue for or against.Morals have nothing whatsoever to do with religion. Therefore, the question must be asked whether the life of a professional gambler can be a moral life. The answer is clearly: Of course it can. As long as a gambler is unfailingly honest, he can lead the same moral life as the rest of us.If the measure of a good life is self-gratification, a gambler leads a very moral life. If the standard is compassion and helping those less fortunate, then most gamblers do NOT lead moral lives. However, DN does because he is obviously compassionate and he has used his money to help those less fortunate. Not that he has to. But he does. Therefore he is leading a good life. Period. Accumulating some cars or homes is NOT a sin. If it were, I'd hate to see where Pat Robertson or Jerry Falwell are going to end up. Or the Pope for that matter...The bottom line is: It is not what you believe in, but what you do, that will "echo in eternity". -Marc

Well said, Marc. TYVM.

[Loismustdie 0]

I forgot to mention that I admire Daniel putting his walk with GOD out in the light, instead of hiding it under a bushel basket like most people.In this day and age believeing in GOD and expressing that belief, is anything but popular.

Did you just quote " This little light of mine?" For anyone not in the know and I am betting there are many, he just quoted a childrens song about Jesus. Officially the funniest sentence I have ever seen on FCP- seriously, who speaks in terms of bushels, unless you are a farmer and even then I don't know if a bushel is still a legitamiote measurement. A bushel basket. LOL.

[Trail Boss Mitch 0]

Living itself is a gamble. Any job or career takes a gamble. Now that poker has emerged from the backrooms of beer joints and pool halls, I feel more comfortable playing. I don't gamble on anything but poker. I like playing cards, not gambling. You won't find me at the roulette table.

[suitedinc 0]

I love how people who do not believe in God, are "offended" if someone mentions God or Jesus, but at the same time will cuss like sailors, or talk in sexual inuendos. Sooooo, it is OK for you to offend me with your language but I cannot mention God? That makes sense.If DN is a Christian, and that predominates his lifestyle, how can he not mention it?? It is part of who he is. If this offends you, move on.Gambling and Christianity? If you are a Christian and anti gambling, I certainly hope your retirement is under your matress and not in a 401K or an IRA. The stock market can pretty volatile. Some might say it is a gamble....even your mutual fund or other diversified accounts. Although spread to reduce the risk of loss, are still a gamble.I'm a Christian who is self employed with no health insurance. Am I in direct conflict with God because of that? I do not think so. I would argue that in todays business environment, an employee is at as much risk as I am for losing all source of funding by being fired, laid off, or downsized. The point is, life is a gamble. To say that DN is at odds with his faith and the Bible is riduclous, in my opinion.

[rog 0]

I'm an atheist, and I think this is a pretty ridiculous topic to be debating. DN's blog is his own to write whatever he feels. It's about whatever aspects of his life he chooses to share with the public. While I dont share his beliefs, and dont get much out of his sharing of his religious views, it does add to the overall picture of who he is. It's not like FCP displays scriptures everytime you pull in a pot...it's the site owner blogging his views on poker and life. Get over it. Separation of church and poker? come on...could we be even a bit more melodramatic?

[SuperSnort 0]

What does it say above the ONE on the back of the one dollar bill....hmmmm, i forget, anyone know?

i believe it says "In God that we trust" but i am english so i may be wrong

[herokid7 0]

Ok, guys, here are my thoughts. I'm in a Christian college and i love to play poker. I have absolutely no conviction over that. I feel that God has no problem with me playing. My college, however, does. So what am i supposed to do? The verse in Proverbs about ill-gotten gain has some legitmacy to it, but in reality does not have anything to do with gambling. In my Christian Ethics class we were taught that the Bible has nothing to say about gambling, but my college was opposed to it because it has a "moral decline it brings with it." I think that line of thinking is idiotic because dating can have a moral decline on a problem that struggles with lust, but we as Christians don't disapprove of dating. Gambling can be wrong for some people, just like drinking can be wrong for some people. But it is not sinful, it may not be wise, but to say it is a sin is just plain wrong. And as for thinking that religion should be separated from the poker table, there has to be something cleared up about that. Daniel, myself, and several other people who claim to be Christians do not have a "religion" we have a RELATIONSHIP with Jesus Christ. When Daniel said he owes it to God for helping him with poker, what he is saying is that before he had a relationship with Christ he could not think as clearly or focus. What Christ does for a person is illuminate every aspect of their life. That is why he thanks God. And having a relationship with Christ goes beyond just what the Bible says, it goes to the Holy Spirit. It is the Holy Spirit, not the Bible that convicts us and guides us. So if Daniel, and myself have a relationship with Christ, then we have a relationship with the Holy Spirit, and if the Holy Spirit does not convict us, one of two things have happened. Either are hearts are hardened or we are not doing anything wrong, and if we are in prayer and read the Bible and try our bests to live as Christ would have, then our hearts our not hardened. God loves you, guys.

[econ1 0]

All I see Daniel saying is that his faith in God has provided him with greater focus and direction.I dare say that if Daniel were a Buddist instead and spent his time writing about how much clarity of thought and increased concentration medidating has brought him no one would bat an eye.

[Wingmaster05 0]

All I see Daniel saying is that his faith in God has provided him with greater focus and direction.I dare say that if Daniel were a Buddist instead and spent his time writing about how much clarity of thought and increased concentration medidating has brought him no one would bat an eye.

Man I keep looking at the boards and thinking econtim is posting. you can either change your name for my sake , or you have some massive shoes to fill

[econ1 0]

Man I keep looking at the boards and thinking econtim is posting. you can either change your name for my sake , or you have some massive shoes to fill

Ha! Too funny - didn't realize there was another econ prefixed name floating around out there. I'm Republican so I am more about lowering expectations than filling big shoes...changing to my screen name promptly. (assuming I can figure out how to).

[Poincare 0]

I only read the first few replies so sorry if someone has already stated the following.I am not a Christian but I did grow up in a strictly Christian household so although I’m not an expert I know more than most about the religion. This post isn’t going to be about whether gambling is good or bad in “Christ’s” eyes.I would like you to consider the following parallel situations. A chess professional plays in tournaments just like a poker professional would, they pay a buy-in and the top few places get a percentage of the prize pool. Obviously the players that don’t make the cut will lose money and go broke in chess just like poker. Does God frown on chess players? I don’t think so. What is the difference between chess and poker? Well that is simple, one has a chance element and one doesn’t. Although poker has a chance element it is still a game of immense skill. I ask you this, what is so evil about chance?There are a lot of situations in business that are zero-sum i.e. one business’ loss is another business’ gain. A lot of the factors involving these situations are not controllable and thus come under the umbrella of chance. Are entrepreneurs also condemned to hell?The final thought is stock investors. A lot of stock movements are unexplainable and thus are explained as chance, but also a lot of skill and knowledge goes into picking the right investments. The people who aren’t good enough at it will go broke. This is just like poker. Are stock traders condemned to hell?

[Wingmaster05 0]

Ha! Too funny - didn't realize there was another econ prefixed name floating around out there. I'm Republican so I am more about lowering expectations than filling big shoes...changing to my screen name promptly. (assuming I can figure out how to).

Haha, you dont have to cahnge it...(I'm not even sure if you can). Just preface each post with a warning or something.

[MasterLJ 0]

Well, I couldn't disagree with you more on several fronts. It's my blog about my personal life. God is part of my personal life. I don't "preach" to you or anybody about what you should be doing. I share with you the reasons why I think I do well, and the things that I find have made me a happy person. Why should I hide the fact that I beleive in God? Why should I hide the fact that I think it's ridiculous to call a Christmas tree a Holiday tree? As for poker being morally wrong, that is ludicrous and there is no argument that supports that notion. If poker is morally wrong, then there isn't a profittable business in the world that isn't "morally wrong" to some degree. Some people are going to suck at poker and lose a lot of money at it too. They need to find another line of work. Some people aren't smart enough to get a law degree and become a lawyer. They need to find another line of work. Some people aren't talented enough to play in the NBA. They need to find another line of work. The argument that with poker you can actually lose money doesn't hold weight. Time spent chasing an NBA career that doesn't materialize costs that person money. They could have been working. I've read way too many uninformed posts where people falsely assume that being a professional gambler is forbidden in the Bible. Not one post ever quoted one single line of scripture where God clearly states that you shouldn't gamble for a living. It also doesn't say in the Bible that people shouldn't drink alcohol. It says that you shouldn't become a drunkard, but not that you shouldn't drink.

"It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God." Mark 10:25

[herokid7 0]

Did you just quote " This little light of mine?" For anyone not in the know and I am betting there are many, he just quoted a childrens song about Jesus. Officially the funniest sentence I have ever seen on FCP- seriously, who speaks in terms of bushels, unless you are a farmer and even then I don't know if a bushel is still a legitamiote measurement. A bushel basket. LOL.

That children's song is based on a Bible verse, so actually he was quoting the Bible.

[cemo76 0]

Ok, I am glad that my Post has caused this interesting debate. Firstly I'd like to say good luck to Daniel as he is in the quarters. All the best and take it down. Getting back to this topic it is obvious that everyone has there own personal opinions and they are all worthy of being listened too. But lets not defend Poker as a noble cause. We are gambling and thats that. We are not curing disease, enhancing human development or saving lives. It is ou hobby, our profession and in some cases our addiction. We choose to play and there for except it for what it is. Sin or no SIN. BUt if you want to be a pure christian then you must not play, Bottom line. This is considered wrong in Christianity because it contravenes Jesus' command that we should love our neighbors as we love God. Since we would never try to gain at God's expense, then we certainly should not try to gain at our neighbor's expense. It doesn't matter how much control a gambler has or how much the gambler is able to lose - what matters is the gambler's interest in receiving an undeserved gain while others at the same time lose. Gambling is, then, a violation of Jesus' most basic commandment for humanity. THAts is my opinion. I am not a christian. Although i do believe in the higher power. I choose to play poker and try to be as kind as I can. Lets just keep Religion and Poker apart. It's like mixing oil and water. JUst doesn't work.ps. Good Luck DAniel Son!.

[Loismustdie 0]

That children's song is based on a Bible verse, so actually he was quoting the Bible.

Very, very good, but it is no less funny. Bushels, by definition, as a word, are funny. Nuff said.