Vegas Knights 54 Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 McEvoy is a perfect example of why a poker hall of fame is so absurd. McEvoy has a ton of accomplishments, has written a ton of books, and I've played with him and I wouldn't stake him in a 10-20 LHE based on his tight weak play. I'm sure there are innumerable players who have won millions in life time cash game earnings, who because they don't play in tournaments or the biggest games would never be considered for the HOF. I'm not just talking about online players in the past 10 years you don't know. I'm talking about live grinders, in places all over the country. Those are the real "hall of famers" i think, the people who are actually +EV in almost every game they play in. Then you should start "The Poker Hall of People who might be the best Players (even if they're hermits or jerks)". Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 I don't know about staking me in a high stakes game but mid stakes probably wouldn't be a bad investment. I wonder if McEvoy's tight play was mostly because he was acting as a prop. When I played in a 20/40 limit game with him in LA he was a prop at the card room and I got the impression that he thought recreational players might not like playing against somebody who was too aggressive. Either that he was just really weak tight in a limit holdem cash game. He was a great prop though in the sense that he represented the casino well by greeting me (who he knew was a stranger to the room) while we were waiting for the game to start. He introduced himself as Tom and told me that he was a prop in the game, he didn't say anything about his last name or that he was a former WSOP champion. He wasn't a prop. Or at least, he wasn't a prop in the cash games. I've played with him at Pendleton and spirit mountain in Oregon, when they flew him in to play in their tournaments. One hand I remember distinctly was a hand where the table was semi short handed, 6 or 7 people. He raised , he got one late position caller. The flop was all small cards rainbow. He got a disgusted look on his face and checked. The guy bet, he called. The turn came, another small card, he checked, the guy bet, he showed me AK and mucked. I was flabbergasted at how poorly he'd played the hand. IT was one of the few hands I saw him play at all. He very rarely raised preflop, and never re-raised. I also played O8 with him once, but I don't remember anything remarkable about it. Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted September 15, 2014 Share Posted September 15, 2014 Then you should start "The Poker Hall of People who could possibly be the best Players (even if they're hermits or jerks)". Or maybe maybe ya'll should stop pretending that poker is a sport, and do away with silly shit like the poker hall of fame. In sports, there are tangible accomplishments, statistics, ways to measure and judge who was great and who wasn't. The halls of fame aren't always perfect, but at least there are objective ways to judge. Poker is not like that, unless you want to make it strictly a Tournament poker hall of fame. Like take someone like Phil Hellmuth. Due to his tournament poker (particularly WSOP) success, he likely deserves to be in the poker hall of fame. If "Fame" is the sole criteria, he may likely be the most famous poker player alive. He's in a god damn hardee's commerical in 2014, long after the poker bubble burst. But, I have no idea what his lifetime tournament ROI is, I would guess it's much lower than people suspect, and I have no idea if he's a lifetime winner in cashgames. I do know that any cash game player I've ever heard of, loves having Phil in their game, so I would suspect he's a lifetime loser, unless he gets to play in a lot of juicy amateur games. (and if so, god bless). There's no way to know how much Phil has actually won at poker. If he's a life time loser in cash games, does he truly belong in the hall of fame? If so, then what are we truly commemorating? So, who gets in? The players who do the best in tournaments but dump all their money in cash games? The players who play in and beat the toughest games in the world? How do we know they beat them? The players who play in juicy rich fish games, in hollywood and elsewhere? The grinders who have supported their families for decades on the game? The most talented cheaters? What is the real criteria? Because, to me, there is only one goal of poker. Get the money. Everything else is a bunch of narrative based myth making and self promotion. I have way more respect for grinders who have made their steady living for decades, than I do for tournament pros who live off of being staked because they gambling degenerates. Player X may have more pure talent than Player Y, a better "A" Game than player Y, but if Player X is always broke, then what was the point? But Player X is a tournament player with charisma, so he gets in the hall and know one gives a damn about Player Y. Is the poker hall of fame about the myth making of the poker savants and ambassadors, or is it about the people who won the most money? Since there's no way to know the latter, then I'd argue that it's the former and in which case, it's a bunch of bullshit 4 Link to post Share on other sites
king_tanner 84 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 Ted Forrest is freaking out on twitter because Mike owes him 29.5k. Seems like a couple hall of fame guys that clean up at the poker table!! Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,311 Posted September 16, 2014 Author Share Posted September 16, 2014 Ted Forrest is freaking out on twitter because Mike owes him 29.5k. Seems like a couple hall of fame guys that clean up at the poker table!! It's actually over $1.7 Million that he claims he's owed from a weight loss prop bet http://www.highstakesdb.com/5089-ted-forrest-claims-mike-matusow-owes-him-over-17-million.aspx Link to post Share on other sites
king_tanner 84 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 It's actually over $1.7 Million that he claims he's owed from a weight loss prop bet http://www.highstakesdb.com/5089-ted-forrest-claims-mike-matusow-owes-him-over-17-million.aspx Yeah I just read that. Holy smokes mike Link to post Share on other sites
BigDMcGee 3,352 Posted September 16, 2014 Share Posted September 16, 2014 For the record, I'm not trying to say DN doesn't deserve to be in the Poker Hall of Fame. What ever meaning that has, or criteria it uses, DN almost certainly fulfills that criteria. I just think the institution itself is ridiculous, for an activity that occurs almost entirely in private, where no records are kept. Link to post Share on other sites
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