The Ocho 970 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Elderly and poor don't have DL's or ID's?That makes no sense.Illegal aliens and criminals don't have ID's. Link to post Share on other sites
LongLiveYorke 38 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Elderly and poor don't have DL's or ID's?That makes no sense.They don't own cars, for example. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 They don't own cars, for example.So you are old?I am all for making it hard for people to vote. I don't know why anyone wants it to be a casual thing that some idiot who just woke up can swing by and vote based on his driving by the voting place while on his way to the bar. Link to post Share on other sites
akoff 0 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 The difference is that none of these things are rights that are guaranteed by our democracy (except for the kids in school part).I mean, it's a bit of a thorny issue. I agree that it doesn't seem like too much of a burden to demand ID for voting. But it's a fact that this will have the effect of preventing many from voting (mainly the poor and elderly). The only thing I wonder is why these laws only seem to come up in the months before an election. Why can't we make such a law right after an election and give people years to comply, or grandfather it in or something? The reason that people are against them is because election fraud isn't that much of an issue, and forcing people to use ID's would take away more people's ability to vote than the number of frauds it would prevent, and it's not very close, really.i don't see what is thorny about it, it seems simple to me - register to vote and get an ID or a voter card...if you live here you have a SS number, if you are first generation you would be thrilled to part of the system and if you were born here it is simple as can be. the only ones with a problem would be someone trying to get over on the system.So you are old?I am all for making it hard for people to vote. I don't know why anyone wants it to be a casual thing that some idiot who just woke up can swing by and vote based on his driving by the voting place while on his way to the bar.i don't think it has to be hard, just honest. I come from the Philadelphia area - the democratic machine are experts here on finding people to vote...no matter who they actually are. i don't think anyone should see it as a casual thing. Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Reminds me of the story about then candidate Obama with his staff in a Chicago cemetery filling out voter registration cards. Going tombstone to tombstone copying the persons name.They came to one tombstone that was old, weathered and hard to read.One of the aides said: "Let's skip this one, I can't read it"But Obama indignantly said "Hey, this person has just as much right to vote as all the rest of these people" Link to post Share on other sites
colonel Feathers 5 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 The federal government stepping on state's rights again.CliffsDems are afraid illegals wont be able gto vote.FYP Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,752 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 The difference is that none of these things are rights that are guaranteed by our democracy (except for the kids in school part). Wait, what? Link to post Share on other sites
LongLiveYorke 38 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Wait, what?Which part? All kids have the right to go to public schools in this country.Edit: Rereading what I said, I see what you responded to. My point was that things like driving a car or buying alcohol aren't central parts of our democracy like voting is. Going to school could also fall under the category of "central to our democracy". Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,752 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 How do you prove your identity without providing ID? This is a serious question - do they get voter cards or something?True story: You just walk in, and tell the person your name. They look it up on the list, and then cross you off. If you go late in the day, you can just read the names off the list and go tell whoever to say that name and then vote.There is no ID check, and no voter card check. It's absolutely ridiculous.Back in the day, you had to own land. That's something that actively disallowed a huge portion of the population from voting. Standing in line to get a free ID from the government only excludes the people that should be excluded. If you want to vote, get off your ass and get a free ID. Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,752 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Which part? All kids have the right to go to public schools in this country.Education isn't a right afforded by the constitution.EDIT: I didn't see your edit in time. Link to post Share on other sites
LongLiveYorke 38 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 Education isn't a right afforded by the constitution.Yeah, that right comes from laws. But I would still consider it a "right." Link to post Share on other sites
Zealous Donkey 0 Posted March 12, 2012 Share Posted March 12, 2012 The difference is that none of these things are rights that are guaranteed by our democracy (except for the kids in school part).I mean, it's a bit of a thorny issue. I agree that it doesn't seem like too much of a burden to demand ID for voting. But it's a fact that this will have the effect of preventing many from voting (mainly the poor and elderly). The only thing I wonder is why these laws only seem to come up in the months before an election. Why can't we make such a law right after an election and give people years to comply, or grandfather it in or something? The reason that people are against them is because election fraud isn't that much of an issue, and forcing people to use ID's would take away more people's ability to vote than the number of frauds it would prevent, and it's not very close, really.Election fraud is the issue. In my state it is especially bad. St. Louis and Kansas City have had a fraud machine in place for years. Other major cities do as well. That is your opinion, it is not a fact. If you can't show an ID and prove you are who you claim to be, then you shouldn't be allowed to vote. It still won't stop all fraud, but it will make it alot harder. Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Elderly and poor don't have DL's or ID's?That makes no sense.Illegal aliens and criminals don't have ID's.Well, they cost money. So, the poor don't want to pay to vote. And old people (thankfully) don't always drive.The studies back up that this will mostly effect the poor and the elderly. Of course, the studies backed up that teenagers use condoms for more than tomfoolery and that "didn't make sense" to you either.The side that just lost an election is ALWAYS whining about election fraud. It goes both ways, people. In 2001, every Democrat was convinced that GWB stole the election and kept black people away from the polls in FL by a variety of tactics. Now, every Republican is sure that Obama is using "Chicago style" politics to rig elections. Link to post Share on other sites
Zealous Donkey 0 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Well, they cost money. So, the poor don't want to pay to vote. And old people (thankfully) don't always drive.The studies back up that this will mostly effect the poor and the elderly. Of course, the studies backed up that teenagers use condoms for more than tomfoolery and that "didn't make sense" to you either.The side that just lost an election is ALWAYS whining about election fraud. It goes both ways, people. In 2001, every Democrat was convinced that GWB stole the election and kept black people away from the polls in FL by a variety of tactics. Now, every Republican is sure that Obama is using "Chicago style" politics to rig elections.I am sure there are isolated cases where both sides attempt different forms of fraud.The party that introduced Alynsky tactics into the political scene certainly would support wide scale fraud of any kind. The whole theme is the ends justify the means. Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,752 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Well, they cost money.My goodness. An Iowa ID is like $6 for 5 years. The cell phone bill of this so called disenfranchised person is $100 per month. Let's not even begin discussing their satellite TV and internet bills.Cost is the stupidest form that this argument takes, and I'm not just talking from Cane here. I hear this sort of crap all the time, and it's ridiculous. Link to post Share on other sites
CaneBrain 95 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 All poor people have satellite tvs and cell phones is stupider, promise. I wish a FL ID was that cheap. Also, it still smells like a poll tax to me.Zealous, save the ridiculous alinsky talking points for Fox News. I, like most people, had never heard of him until he became the new fox bogey monster. Acting like the GOP has never had any ends justify the means ppl is sad. Link to post Share on other sites
Zealous Donkey 0 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 All poor people have satellite tvs and cell phones is stupider, promise. I wish a FL ID was that cheap. Also, it still smells like a poll tax to me.Zealous, save the ridiculous alinsky talking points for Fox News. I, like most people, had never heard of him until he became the new fox bogey monster. Acting like the GOP has never had any ends justify the means ppl is sad.Alinsky is very well known in every activist group of the left, for you to pretend that this is a bogey monster created by Fox is ridiculous. BTW I haven't watched longer than 5 minutes of Fox News in the the last 5 years. Barack Obama, and every single person in his administration is very, very well schooled in Alinsky. Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,752 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Also, it still smells like a poll tax to me.Except it's not even close to that. Back in the day, the population wasn't 300,000,000 and people could generally be trusted. Now it's the opposite of that, and we should have a legitimate way to ID people before allowing them to vote.And the legitimate ways are super easy and super cheap:a voter ID Card: freea State license: Very inexpensive in every state.a passport: All non-national Latinos would have a valid passport, correct? I mean, they're here, and they want to vote. I'm sure they have a passport. $65 for 10 years, aka, $6.50/year, just in case they unexpectedly don't have one.A state ID: Even cheaper than a license.A social security card: Free of charge for all citizens.A birth certificate: FREE! Link to post Share on other sites
vbnautilus 48 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Except it's not even close to that. Back in the day, the population wasn't 300,000,000 and people could generally be trusted. Now it's the opposite of that, and we should have a legitimate way to ID people before allowing them to vote.I agree, but it should be free. Link to post Share on other sites
InternetExplorer 2,609 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 why not make IDs free nationally (somehow, I don't know) and require them to vote? Link to post Share on other sites
Balloon guy 158 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Why not make voting really hard so we can prevent people from voting who don't know nuthing. Link to post Share on other sites
brvheart 1,752 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 why not make IDs free nationally (somehow, I don't know) and require them to vote?Free national ID cards would be a good thing, requiring everyone to vote would destroy our country. Link to post Share on other sites
InternetExplorer 2,609 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 Free national ID cards would be a good thing, requiring everyone to vote would destroy our country.oh no, I meant, require ID to vote. not require everyone to vote. sorry, my bad. Link to post Share on other sites
LongLiveYorke 38 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 why not make IDs free nationally (somehow, I don't know) and require them to vote?I'd be okay with that, but pass it just after an election, not right before one so people have to scramble. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,312 Posted March 13, 2012 Share Posted March 13, 2012 I'd be okay with that, but pass it just after an election, not right before one so people have to scramble.Introduce a National ID card and there will be lots of people living in compounds in Montana who might not be very happy. Link to post Share on other sites
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