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How To Play Early


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You don't seem to be grasping the question very well tho, how do you maximize your chip stack in this situation.
i just want to say, (here, i'll do it for you LOL LMAO) ive never read a poker book, never really discussed it (im divorced, no kids, not much family and live in the sticks) ive learned everything by my mistakes and studying while playing, yet since 98, i have not worked a job, and pay my bills by poker winnings. never said i was a pro, or a millionaire. i make @3-4,000 a month but aint getting any better so i decided to learn why. i appreciate the help and know there are many styles and the game is getting harder to beat. there is no "right way" to play, but there are ways of making more out of it. i have the skills...chk raising , phantom calls to steal, using position, yet all i really rely on is mathand reading the players cards. its getting very aggressive out there and i'm looking for ways to avoid/punish. thats why i brought this up...which is more profitable in "THE LONG RUN" i play usually 10 tournys a month avg $120 buy-in and some limit (cuz thats all we have in this idotic state with only a $60 max bet at that. 2-60 spread (1/2 blinds) it is mn's version of no limit, how sick! forgive me if i really dig deep, my mind is built that way. once again...thx JOE
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30odd6, The main flaw I see is that in tournaments, especially early, I think you should be less concerned about protecting the pot you're in and more concerned about protecting your total stack. That's why people are advocating a check or small bet on the turn. Granted, you are giving your opponent the right odds to continue to the river. But you prevent yourself from getting into a big pot with really only a marginal hand. Losing a big pot early can really put you in a difficult situation in a tourny. It sounds simple, but since you have a medium strength hand, you want to play cautiously and keep the pot small.

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I'd really like to know where you can live where paying your bills only costs 300-400 a month (Assuming that's what you are saying, it's fairly obvious you don't read period)
go kcuf yourself donk! wow! this is the poker community?? great comment! i live in minnesota.
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go kcuf yourself donk! wow! this is the poker community?? great comment! i live in minnesota.
Every post you make is a refutation of the advice people have been trying to give you. Yes, it's a community, but if you're not going to listen and understand why your poker logic is flawed then why the hell should anyone show you any sympathy? It's clear that you have many leaks in your game, as well your grammar.Read over hands that have been posted in this forum, there are thousands upon thousands of hands that will help you become a better player. If you have hands that you'd think would be worthy of discussion, then post them and your logic behind the plays you make, but if the general consensus says that you're wrong don't go out your way to prove yourself right. Take a step back, realize what you're doing is more than likely wrong, and learn from it. There are some players who have been playing poker for many many years, but that doesn't mean their game is flawless. Those who go out of their way to learn the concepts and strategies, and realize and accept when they are wrong, are those who succeed at poker. From the few posts you've made in this forum, it's clear you're very stubborn, and that is not a good trait to have if you want to be successful at poker.Continually arguing your point when you're obviously in the wrong isn't going to do anyone any good.
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Every post you make is a refutation of the advice people have been trying to give you. Yes, it's a community, but if you're not going to listen and understand why your poker logic is flawed then why the hell should anyone show you any sympathy? It's clear that you have many leaks in your game, as well your grammar.Read over hands that have been posted in this forum, there are thousands upon thousands of hands that will help you become a better player. If you have hands that you'd think would be worthy of discussion, then post them and your logic behind the plays you make, but if the general consensus says that you're wrong don't go out your way to prove yourself right. Take a step back, realize what you're doing is more than likely wrong, and learn from it. There are some players who have been playing poker for many many years, but that doesn't mean their game is flawless. Those who go out of their way to learn the concepts and strategies, and realize and accept when they are wrong, are those who succeed at poker. From the few posts you've made in this forum, it's clear you're very stubborn, and that is not a good trait to have if you want to be successful at poker.Continually arguing your point when you're obviously in the wrong isn't going to do anyone any good.
i apologize to all. yes i am on the stubborn side and maybe its what makes me succeed (all phases of life. when i set my mind to something...i want to know EVERYTHING and WHY). i wrote why i "want" to know more cuz my game was solely based on bluffing and pressure. i am trying to change that and aint doing it quite right, almost but not right. that is why i am on here. i greatly appreciate the help i am getting. if you can look at it through my eyes. i learned on my own and did a pretty good job of it. nobody ever will know all but i sure can use the help. nobody plays perfect. if people dont look at all sides and inside and out, how do you know which is best. i dig too deep sometimes and need to know why???? sorry
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i apologize to all. yes i am on the stubborn side and maybe its what makes me succeed (all phases of life. when i set my mind to something...i want to know EVERYTHING and WHY). i wrote why i "want" to know more cuz my game was solely based on bluffing and pressure. i am trying to change that and aint doing it quite right, almost but not right. that is why i am on here. i greatly appreciate the help i am getting. if you can look at it through my eyes. i learned on my own and did a pretty good job of it. nobody ever will know all but i sure can use the help. nobody plays perfect. if people dont look at all sides and inside and out, how do you know which is best. i dig too deep sometimes and need to know why???? sorry
I would suggest reading poker books. You are going to get a lot of info without the flaming. These books are geared towards beginners/people looking to improve their game. If you do choose to continue to post on these forums you have to understand that its not personal. People are going to criticize your play and tell you exactly why you failed. If you are going to be stubborn and refuse to listen, then just stop posting. The more you argue with people, the more they are going to flame you and show little interest in adding any real content to your thread.If you want to post hands don't include the results. Just post the scenario up to a certain point (i.e. flop, turn, river) and give us your thinking.This forum is a gold mine of information, full of a lot of really good poker players. You can learn a lot from them if you just set your ego aside and listen.
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This forum is a gold mine of information, full of a lot of really good poker players. You can learn a lot from them if you just set your ego aside and listen.
QFT
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i guess my way of discussing is too strong???? if i ask someone how a car runs, and i get...turn the key? that doesnt explain that you need fuel, to be put in a combustion chamber, and a spark to ignite it so as to make compression, so the pistons go up and down and give you torque, to spin the crankshaft, etc. etc. etc. i was looking tooo deep for scientific proof that one way is better than the other. i wasnt trying to argue (if you read the whole thread) i was just looking for answers, and not just being told what to do. sorry, i have a high IQ. that doesnt mean booksmarts, cuz there are a lot of people who are booksmart that cant figure out how to tie thier own shoes. im not sayin anything bad about anyone in this thread, i am the kind of guy who likes to see proof and results. yes, i learned to keep pots small early, and find a better spot to put it in. i still feel 4:1 odds is damn good there, and i get chipped up. i'd get away if nothing comes. i thought the whole object of poker was to get yourself into good situations, and thats where i was. from now on, i'll just listen unless you want my thoughts on it. thx

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one more question...does daniels teaching of small bal say raise 3xbb+1 per limper??? thx for the answer. and some thoughts to the comment above, if any

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Not to be too much of a dick, but seriously, dude, learn to write a little better. It's a serious pain unravelling your crappy structure, punctuation etc...Improve your grammar and spelling and it'll go a long way to improving people's patience in dealing with your questions.

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i guess my way of discussing is too strong???? if i ask someone how a car runs, and i get...turn the key? that doesnt explain that you need fuel, to be put in a combustion chamber, and a spark to ignite it so as to make compression, so the pistons go up and down and give you torque, to spin the crankshaft, etc. etc. etc. i was looking tooo deep for scientific proof that one way is better than the other. i wasnt trying to argue (if you read the whole thread) i was just looking for answers, and not just being told what to do. sorry, i have a high IQ. that doesnt mean booksmarts, cuz there are a lot of people who are booksmart that cant figure out how to tie thier own shoes. im not sayin anything bad about anyone in this thread, i am the kind of guy who likes to see proof and results. yes, i learned to keep pots small early, and find a better spot to put it in. i still feel 4:1 odds is damn good there, and i get chipped up. i'd get away if nothing comes. i thought the whole object of poker was to get yourself into good situations, and thats where i was. from now on, i'll just listen unless you want my thoughts on it. thx
thx for the heads up mercury. i just start typing and my fingers cant keep up with my mind. i tried to fixit... is it any better?
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thx for the heads up mercury. i just start typing and my fingers cant keep up with my mind. i tried to fixit... is it any better?
I hear ya, dude. Like I said, no offense meant. And, well, no...it's no better, just shorter.
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one more question...does daniels teaching of small bal say raise 3xbb+1 per limper??? thx for the answer. and some thoughts to the comment above, if any
To be serious for a moment, no that's not Daniel's style. However, please realize that Daniel is talking about tournaments that are extremely deep where he has a perceived significant edge over the field postflop.The specific hypothetical hand you created in the other thread is a short stack situation (despite your arguing that 18BBs is somehow deep). In this thread, the structure you specified isn't that deep either. Your initial M is 50, and you have 30 minute levels. Playing "small ball" is much more difficult in structures like this because even small bets commit large portions of your stack and you're going to run into a lot of people who have smaller stacks that are going to jam on your small raises.
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To be serious for a moment, no that's not Daniel's style. However, please realize that Daniel is talking about tournaments that are extremely deep where he has a perceived significant edge over the field postflop.The specific hypothetical hand you created in the other thread is a short stack situation (despite your arguing that 18BBs is somehow deep). In this thread, the structure you specified isn't that deep either. Your initial M is 50, and you have 30 minute levels. Playing "small ball" is much more difficult in structures like this because even small bets commit large portions of your stack and you're going to run into a lot of people who have smaller stacks that are going to jam on your small raises.
DUDE !!! it was the first hand of a tourny and were sitting on 100x BB....what other scenario falls under "small ball theory" sure later on you need to get aggressive/ weary/ tight. this is what i talk about when people wear blinders. so much ABC poker that people lose the the concept of playing "said" hand at "said" time, and reading "said" hand. its always: this is the way to play every hand at every point in the tourny.i dont care if i have a million chips or 20BB, i'm playin the odds, and with chips, i'm extremely hard to beat. i'm like merlin, or patrick jane on the mentalist. i see what you have and can see 5 moves ahead to what should/can be done.
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  • 2 weeks later...
lolz at discussing strategy...i think the people in this thread have all said pretty much the same strat...your a joke if you think playing like this is going to keep...i mean make you a winning player. Realize that your not as good as you think, and stop arguing when better players tell you you made a mistake
No need to get all wound up w/A10s so early in a deepstack tourney. Only way I am getting a lot of chips involved here is if I get two hearts on the flop (and then maybe I start firing a bit more). Why race off a big chunk of your stack so early with a very marginal hand. The end result, you lost 33% of your stack w/a pair of of 10s in the baby stages of a big tournament. Only way I am willing to commit that much here is if there is a chance I will have 20k chips by the end of the hand. What HE had and how HE played really doesn't matter. I would question why I invested so much w/a pair of 10s at this point in the tourney. Small ball is the only way to go this early. This would be a decent question only if you were in the late stages of the tournament.
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DUDE !!! it was the first hand of a tourny and were sitting on 100x BB....what other scenario falls under "small ball theory" sure later on you need to get aggressive/ weary/ tight. this is what i talk about when people wear blinders. so much ABC poker that people lose the the concept of playing "said" hand at "said" time, and reading "said" hand. its always: this is the way to play every hand at every point in the tourny.i dont care if i have a million chips or 20BB, i'm playin the odds, and with chips, i'm extremely hard to beat. i'm like merlin, or patrick jane on the mentalist. i see what you have and can see 5 moves ahead to what should/can be done.
LOL. I agree. Jesus, how many tournaments out there give you starting stacks of 100x the bb on the 2nd level. I mean other than the Main Event I don't know of any.
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LOL. I agree. Jesus, how many tournaments out there give you starting stacks of 100x the bb on the 2nd level. I mean other than the Main Event I don't know of any.
Ummm, a lot. 3000 starting chips, blinds 2nd level 15/30 = 100x bb. So that narrows it down to more than I care to count.
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Personally, i find at the early stages of a tournament, regardless of wheter its deepstack or not, it is best to get a feel of your table, I would limp in to see flop and maybe call small raise. Why risk your chips so early n a tournament? I try to get in as many cheap pots as possible early on with a wide range of hands, if i flat call or min raise and I get re-raised, depending on the holding cards and players in pot etc. i can easily fold. Dont fall into the trap of "I HAVE TO RAISE WIT THIS AND I HAVE TO FLAT CALL THAT" because every situation is different and any half decent players will figure you out. keep mixing it up create yourself an image. Hpe this is some help to you. Listen to what has been said to you, from what i gather there are some very good/successful playrs here offering their advice.

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