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Is This Standard? Basic Hand, 2-5


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I can't pokerstove AKQ vs 99 though

He doesn't have AKQ offsuit.

I'm Jon.

The problem with this hand Is that MY advice was spot on from the start.and that zach sucks at NL, and matt always gets into marginal situations with small edges and is probably very swingy.righht?matt, your results stil very swingy?

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The problem with this hand Is that MY advice was spot on from the start.and that zach sucks at NL, and matt always gets into marginal situations with small edges and is probably very swingy.righht?matt, your results stil very swingy?
LOL at making this a personal thing.Also, LOL even harder if either Matt or Zach posts their graph. :club:
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The problem with this hand Is that MY advice was spot on from the start.and that zach sucks at NL, and matt always gets into marginal situations with small edges and is probably very swingy.righht?matt, your results stil very swingy?
Fwiw, I've been playing NL as a pro for about a year and a half now.Also, we don't care how swingy our results are. We're looking to maximize EV. That's the point of poker.If you want to sacrifice your overall winnings for some semblance of a smoother graph, go ahead, but that doesn't make your advice correct.
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Lastly, I'll say this. Royal obviously is firm in his belief here, which is admirable. For everyone else that is trying to learn, please, please, please ignore his advice in this specific thread. I am certainly not saying to ignore his advice in other threads. I'm just saying he is giving fundamentally incorrect, fundamentally bad advice in this specific thread that will make you worse players.
Guess I didn't really mean, "lastly".
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It's not a safe bet. It's the way to maximize your value. Let's say we all agree that we're ahead after seeing his 50 dollar bet on the turn. Give me one reason to raise that makes sense other than not wanting to have to make a river decision.EDIT: For the record, I think the majority of responses are "reading this villain" correctly. Hell, I think you're reading the villain correctly. I just think you're reacting to your read in a totally incorrect manner.
I agree with pretty much everything you've said in this thread, and generally tend to disagree with most of what RT says, but your bolded is slightly incorrect. If there was a way to be 100% sure that we were ahead on the turn (and be able to narrow villain's hand to AK/AQ), then raising would be the correct play. Unfortunately, there's really no way that we can be 100% sure and in practice, check raising this turn becomes very, very bad.Edit: Because I think in general, people will not continue bluffing a blank river often enough to compensate for the % of the time they hit their 6 outter. I don't play as much live though, so I don't know if people check back flop and will fire both turn and river in these spots.Double Edit: I want to clarify by saying that the optimal play would be to check raise the turn to get him to call with worse, not to end the hand. If you were playing face-up and saw your opponent had AK, the optimal play would be to check raise any amount that would get him to continue (perhaps a check/minraise). This is close to impossible to occur in practice though.
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The problem with this hand Is that MY advice was spot on from the start.and that zach sucks at NL, and matt always gets into marginal situations with small edges and is probably very swingy.righht?matt, your results stil very swingy?
rjnjkJ_IjWgo58WLPI90.jpgTry again.
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so you guys are all in aggreance its a check/call turn. check/fold river??thats your optimal lines?I just want to be 100% clear since you're saying to ignore everything i've said and Only listen to your advice,

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so you guys are all in aggreance its a check/call turn. check/fold river??thats your optimal lines?I just want to be 100% clear since you're saying to ignore everything i've said and Only listen to your advice,
I literally have not looked at the hand in question.
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I agree with pretty much everything you've said in this thread, and generally tend to disagree with most of what RT says, but your bolded is slightly incorrect. If there was a way to be 100% sure that we were ahead on the turn (and be able to narrow villain's hand to AK/AQ), then raising would be the correct play. Unfortunately, there's really no way that we can be 100% sure and in practice, check raising this turn becomes very, very bad.
I did say somewhere that if there was some dynamic involved that we could get the villain to call off with worse, raising isn't horrible. To your point, though, you're saying that if we know he has AK/AQ 100%, raising is correct. I'd counter that that would depend on what he thinks he does on the river with A-high or if we think we can get value out of A-high on the turn.Still, though, I think that's a tangent discussion that distracts from this specific hand where we can narrow down the villain's range but don't know it exactly.
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rjnjkJ_IjWgo58WLPI90.jpgTry again.
lol. nice. i'm actually happy you're doing well. We both know we can never agree on anything in strat. Hell, even if you thought i had some validity, you would never admit it, so i dont mind that you've chosen to poo poo my posts without actually giving any real advice.
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IMO:Probably fold preflop, I don't want to go back and check the OP to see what our stack size is. But it's close to the 10X rule and we're oop.Check/call flop.Check/fold turn if he bets again.If flop goes check/check, lead the turn. Fold if raised (more player dependent but generally right)If called on the turn, c/fold the river if he bets.I would never ever c/raise the turn for the reasons people have already said. You're just getting money in bad for very little reason.

How have you been playing poker so long and you don't even know why you bet?There are 2 reasons. ONLY 2 reasons.1. You bet to get a worse hand to call2. You bet to get a better hand to foldEverything past that elaborates on one of those 2 categories.
I disagree with this a little and I think this is where RT is going. We also bet to protect our hands at times. For instance, when the flop checks through we can generally bet the turn to protect against his AK getting a free draw to 6 outs on the river. We don't however want to c/raise and bloat the pot in order to protect our hand. Protecting our hand is not worth creating a huge pot on the turn with one more card to come. Protecting our stack >>> protecting our hand. So the correct play if you want to protect your hand is to lead the turn. This both protects our hand and protects our stack.
The problem with this hand Is that MY advice was spot on from the start.and that zach sucks at NL, and matt always gets into marginal situations with small edges and is probably very swingy.righht?matt, your results stil very swingy?
RT, you are going to be SICK to your stomach if Matt posts his graph. It's the most consistent rocketship you've ever seen.Mark
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lol. nice. i'm actually happy you're doing well. We both know we can never agree on anything in strat. Hell, even if you thought i had some validity, you would never admit it, so i dont mind that you've chosen to poo poo my posts without actually giving any real advice.
Wrong on that one too.
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26 User(s) are reading this topic (7 Guests and 2 Anonymous Users)17 Members: Royal_Tour, droberts, HighwayStar, Snamuh, gobears, Naismith, Zach6668, Tehtoe, The Lobster, SwolyswoND, outsider13, Acid_Knight, king1305, NoSup4U, dreamcrusher28, Naked_Cowboy, rocketpoker828
LOL
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I disagree with this a little and I think this is where RT is going. We also bet to protect our hands at times. For instance, when the flop checks through we can generally bet the turn to protect against his AK getting a free draw to 6 outs on the river. We don't however want to c/raise and bloat the pot in order to protect our hand. Protecting our hand is not worth creating a huge pot on the turn with one more card to come. Protecting our stack >>> protecting our hand. So the correct play if you want to protect your hand is to lead the turn. This both protects our hand and protects our stack.
Mark, when we "bet to protect our hand," we're just betting to get a worse hand to call.
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RT, I typically agree with your advice, but I do believe you are wrong in this thread. What the others have said is true. You bet to get worse to call or better to fold. THAT IS ALL. C/r this turn just wins you the same amount of money when you are ahead, and loses you more when you are behind. Plus as Naismith or someone else said, we cannot be 100% sure that we're currently ahead. I think 95% sure, but not completely. Live poker has too many morons who might try to slowplay KK/AA.

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Mark, when we "bet to protect our hand," we're just betting to get a worse hand to call.
not always, you can be betting to win the hand then and there. outright.to avoid going to future streets and risk getting outdrawn.
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my point exactly
You're point is misguided. Our conversation has exactly nothing to do with the hand in question. I'm merely discussing basic no limit theory, pertaining to the game as a whole, not a specific hand.
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You're point is misguided. Our conversation has exactly nothing to do with the hand in question. I'm merely discussing basic no limit theory, pertaining to the game as a whole, not a specific hand.
ask yourself.Have you ever assigned someone a range that you think you're ahead of, and then Bet.. and thought. "I hope he folds, but i'm ok if he calls"ever?
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