To The Bush Haters

[Balloon guy 158]

Well about a hundred thousand Iraqi civilians have lost their lives. So certainly those people and their families have lost. Whether the surviving ones will be better off as a result of this war remains to be seen, but it certainly wasn't their choice to make that sacrifice. http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

And most of them were killed by Al Qeda in attempts to disrupt the progress being made in Iraq.I am lost as to why this is on the US to be responsible for the evil of Al Qeda?Oh, if we weren't there they would not blow up people in Iraq, just Israel and the US. Oh now I get it.The only thing evil needs to flourish is for good men to stand around and do nothing

[vbnautilus 48]

And most of them were killed by Al Qeda in attempts to disrupt the progress being made in Iraq.I am lost as to why this is on the US to be responsible for the evil of Al Qeda?Oh, if we weren't there they would not blow up people in Iraq, just Israel and the US. Oh now I get it.The only thing evil needs to flourish is for good men to stand around and do nothing

We did kinda remove the government that was keeping things under control, so I even if we think the invasion was a good thing I don't see how we can say the US isn't somewhat responsible for what's going on there.

[BigLebowski 0]

I hope it happens, but even if Obama was able to reduce the number of abortions down to only 2,000 a day, it would be a huge thing since now we have 3,700 people a day who can't understand the complex directions on a box of trojans and end up with an unwanted pregnancy.

You conservatives are so transparent. It's pretty obvious that you could care less about abortions. The problem lies in the fact that if abortions continue to rise you will have less and less people to badger on the interwebs. Duh

[85suited 0]

Debunking The Iraq Body Count Mythhttp://recoveringcynic.blogspot.com/2004/0...count-myth.htmlone thing you won’t find on Iraq Body Count is the number of lives saved by the coalition. Using the same methodology as Iraq Body Count, Peter Robinson at NRO notes:UNICEF’s estimate that before the war 36,000 Iraqis died each year for want of food and medicine, one reader notes, fails to take into account the hundreds, and perhaps thousands, whom Saddam killed intentionallyThe Iraqi's have seen the elimination of one of the world’s worst regimes, write a constitution and hold three national elections. The percentage of Iraqis who turned out to vote in the referendum on a new constitution was higher than that for the presidential election contest in AmericaHussein's regime killed, tortured, raped and terrorized the Iraqi people and its neighbors for over two decades.Hundreds of thousands of people died as a result of Saddam's actions.Saddam had approximately 40 of his own relatives murdered.1980-88: Iran-Iraq war left 150,000 to 340,000 Iraqis and 450,000 to 730,000 Iranians dead.1983-1988: Documented chemical attacks by Iraqi regime caused some 30,000 Iraqi and Iranian deaths.1988: Chemical attack on Kurdish village of Halabja killed approximately 5,000 people.1987-1988: Iraqi regime used chemical agents in attacks against at least 40 Kurdish villages.1990-91: 1,000 Kuwaitis were killed in Iraqi invasion of Kuwait.1991: Bloody suppression of Kurdish and Shi'a uprisings in northern and southern Iraq killed at least 30,000 to 60,000. At least 2,000 Kurdish villages were destroyed during the campaign of terror.2001: Amnesty International report: "Victims of torture in Iraq are subjected to a wide range of forms of torture, including the gouging out of eyes, severe beatings and electric shocks... some victims have died as a result and many have been left with permanent physical and psychological damage."Human Rights Watch: Saddam's 1987-1988 campaign of terror against the Kurds killed at least 50,000 and possibly as many as 100,000 Kurds.Refugees International: "Oppressive government policies have led to the internal displacement of 900,000 Iraqis."Iraq's 13 million Shiite Muslims, the majority of Iraq's population of approximately 22 million, faced severe restrictions on their religious practice.

[Balloon guy 158]

We did kinda remove the government that was keeping things under control, so I even if we think the invasion was a good thing I don't see how we can say the US isn't somewhat responsible for what's going on there.

Stalin had good control over his people too. As did Mao.I guess as long as people live, their freedom is secondary?

[Balloon guy 158]

Under the UN sactions between gulf war 1 and 2 an estimated 500,000 Iraqis children died from starvation.To which Madeline Albright, Clinton's Secretary of State said this:"I think this is a very hard choice, but the price--we think the price is worth it."LinkSo 500,000 died under Sadam during Clinton100,000 died after Saddam during BushAfter Clinton, the future was more of the sameAfter Bush the future is freedomI guess my scorecard must be a misprint, or else you lefties are screwy

[BigLebowski 0]

So BG, you are starting your picket to invade Sudan, Congo, etc. in 5, 4, 3, 2Oh yeah, you are just defending a decision by your party of choice. How about a little proactivity? If those were the real reasons for invading Iraq I don't see why we couldn't have used them. Instead we lied through our teeth and then had to dig up these numbers to justify it.

[Balloon guy 158]

So BG, you are starting your picket to invade Sudan, Congo, etc. in 5, 4, 3, 2Oh yeah, you are just defending a decision by your party of choice. How about a little proactivity? If those were the real reasons for invading Iraq I don't see why we couldn't have used them. Instead we lied through our teeth and then had to dig up these numbers to justify it.

No, we invaded Iraq because they have oil, and were run by a guy who had used WMDs in the past, was trying to get more, and was paying terrorist's families who killed jews at bus stopsNo oil though, and we probably just carpet bomb them.And should their oil run out anytime soon, we will border their country, and let them kill each other all day while the UN talks about it.

[vbnautilus 48]

Stalin had good control over his people too. As did Mao.I guess as long as people live, their freedom is secondary?

That's an interesting question -- but is it up to us to decide that for everyone?

[Balloon guy 158]

That's an interesting question -- but is it up to us to decide that for everyone?

Nope, only countries that sell something that is vital to the stability of commerce and trade

[Avaron 0]

Nope, only countries that sell something that is vital to the stability of commerce and trade

ok... we germans build the best cars in the world. if we stop selling them, you want to invade germany?

[El Guapo 8]

ok... we germans build the best cars in the world. if we stop selling them, you want to invade germany?

No. If you stop making them, you are of no use to us and we won't protect you.Well, you still have beer and sausage......so we will still protect you, but we won't try as hard.

[Balloon guy 158]

ok... we germans build the best cars in the world. if we stop selling them, you want to invade germany?

I got to say you Germans do make fine automobiles.But I drive Fords.Because BMWs are for teh gheysPlus you will continue to make and sell equipment to produce chemical and biological warfare. Even though we don't do that sort of thing, it's nice to know that we can get a supplier if we need one.Do the world a favor though and stop selling them to terrorist states hmmm?

[Mercury69 3]

Well, saying that Bush gave the people what they "wanted" by going into Iraq doesn't mean it's a good thing. Let me put it this way: My gf has food and weight issues. Is giving her that piece of fudge cake she "wants" the best option? No. Sometimes, she'll get it, though, because the runoff of having to deal with not giving a vocal MINORITY what they want can be a real fckn problem. Besides, Blackwater and Halliburton et al needed to get those security and construction contracts going. What better place to be making money in contruction than a place where they blow shit up almost every day.**** Bush. Worst ****ing president ever. Anyone who did well under him was on the "right" side of the legislations and/or was already in a good spot fiscally.I wasn't going to post this but (I will say up front that some of this is opinion and cannot be substatiated by fact):WHO AM I?EDUCATION AND EXPERIENCE: Law Enforcement: I was arrested in Kennebunkport, Maine, in 1976 for driving under the influence of alcohol. I pled guilty, paid a fine, and had my driver's license suspended for 30 days. My Texas driving record has been "lost" and is not available. Military: I joined the Texas Air National Guard and went AWOL. I refused to take a drug test or answer any questions about my drug use. By joining the Texas Air National Guard, I was able to avoid combat duty in Vietnam. College: I graduated from Yale University with a low C average. I was a cheerleader.PAST WORK EXPERIENCE: I ran for U.S. Congress and lost. I began my career in the oil business in Midland, Texas in 1975. I bought an oil company, but couldn't find any oil in Texas. The company went bankrupt shortly after I sold all my stock. I bought the Texas Rangers baseball team in a sweetheart deal that took land using taxpayer money. With the help of my father and our friends in the oil industry (including Enron CEO Ken Lay), I was elected governor of Texas.ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS GOVERNOR OF TEXAS: I changed Texas pollution laws to favor power and oil companies, making Texas the most polluted state in the Union. During my tenure, Houston replaced Los Angeles as the most smog-ridden city in America. I cut taxes and bankrupted the Texas treasury to the tune of billions in borrowed money. I set the record for the most executions by any governor in American history. With the help of my brother, the governor of Florida, and my father's appointments to the Supreme Court, I became President of the United States, after losing by over 500,000 votes.ACCOMPLISHMENTS AS PRESIDENT: I am the first President in U.S. history to enter office with a criminal record. I invaded and occupied two countries at a continuing cost of over one billion dollars per week. I spent the U.S. surplus and effectively bankrupted the U.S.Treasury. I shattered the record for the largest annual deficit in U.S. history. I set an economic record for most private bankruptcies filed in any 12-month period. I set the all-time record for most foreclosures in a 12-month period. I set the all-time record for the biggest drop in the history of the U.S. stock market. In my first year in office, over 2 million Americans lost their jobs and that trend continues. I'm proud that the members of my cabinet are the richest of any administration in U.S. history. My "poorest millionaire," Condoleezza Rice, has a Chevron oil tanker named after her. I set the record for most campaign fund-raising trips by a U.S. President. I am the all-time U.S. and world record-holder for receiving the most corporate campaign donations. My largest lifetime campaign contributor, and one of my best friends, Kenneth Lay, presided over the largest corporate bankruptcy fraud in U.S. history, Enron. My political party used Enron private jets and corporate attorneys to assure my success with the U.S. Supreme Cour t during my election decision. I have protected my friends at Enron and Halliburton against investigation or prosecution. More time and money was spent investigating the Monica Lewinsky affair than has been spent investigating one of the biggest corporate rip-offs in history. I presided over the biggest energy crisis in U.S. history and refused to intervene when corruption involving the oil industry was revealed. I presided over the highest gasoline prices in U.S. history. I changed the U.S. policy to allow convicted criminals to be awarded government contracts. I appointed more convicted criminals to my administration than any President in U.S. history. I created the Ministry of Homeland Security, the largest bureaucracy in the history of the United States Government. I've broken more international treaties than any President in U.S. history. I am the first President in U.S. history to have the United Nations remove the U.S. from the Human Rights Commission. I withdrew the U.S. from the World Court of Law. I refused to allow inspectors access to U.S. "prisoners of war" detainees and thereby have refused to abide by the Geneva Convention. I am the first President in history to refuse United Nations election inspectors (during the 2002 US election). I set the record for fewest numbers of press conferences of any President since the advent of television. I set the all-time record for most days on vacation in any one-year period. After taking off the entire month of August, I presided over the worst security failure in U.S. history. I garnered the most sympathy ever for the U.S. after the World Trade Center attacks and less than a year later made the U.S. the most hated country in the world , the largest failure of diplomacy in world history. I have set the all-time record for most people worldwide to simultaneously protest me in public venues (15 million people), shattering the record for protests against any person in the history of mankind. I am the first President in U.S. history to order an unprovoked, pre-emptive attack and the military occupation of a sovereign nation. I did so against the will of the United Nations, the majority of U.S. Citizens and the world community. I have cut health care benefits for war veterans and support a cut in duty benefits for active duty troops and their families in wartime. In my State of the Union Address, I lied about our reasons for attacking Iraq and then blamed the lies on our British friends. I am the first President in history to have a majority of Europeans (71%) view my presidency as the biggest threat to world peace and security. I am supporting development of a nuclear "Tactical Bunker Buster," a WMD. I have so far failed to fulfill my pledge to bring Osama Bin Laden to justice.RECORDS AND REFERENCES: All records of my tenure as Governor of Texas are now in my father's library, sealed and unavailable for public view. All records of SEC investigations into my insider trading and my bankrupt companies are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public view. All records or minutes from meetings that I, or my Vice-President, attended regarding public energy policy are sealed in secrecy and unavailable for public review. I specified that my sealed documents will not be available for 50 years.

[Avaron 0]

I got to say you Germans do make fine automobiles.But I drive Fords.Because BMWs are for teh gheysPlus you will continue to make and sell equipment to produce chemical and biological warfare. Even though we don't do that sort of thing, it's nice to know that we can get a supplier if we need one.Do the world a favor though and stop selling them to terrorist states hmmm?

your really believe that? everyone does. selling hightech devises everywhere around the world. of course, they can be used for bad things, like almost everything.ok, we stop trading on the "free world market" as soon as you stop to support guys like bin laden and saddam who will turn into problems in the future. deal?

terrorist states

definition please. as far as i know, there are no officiall "terrorist states" existing.

Because BMWs are for teh gheys

hmmm, i always thought that of Mercedes Benz...

[Balloon guy 158]

WHO AM I?

that wouldn't be Clinton would it?Oh wait you said he knew his father, so it can't be either of the last two democrat presidents

[Balloon guy 158]

your really believe that? everyone does. selling hightech devises everywhere around the world. of course, they can be used for bad things, like almost everything.

I will agree with you here.

ok, we stop trading on the "free world market" as soon as you stop to support guys like bin laden and saddam who will turn into problems in the future. deal?

Okay, the bar is once the US knows the future, then germany will stop selling WMD plants to terrorist states. Okay, at least we know where we all stand.

definition please. as far as i know, there are no officiall "terrorist states" existing.

THEY ARE WHO WE SAY THEY ARE!

hmmm, i always thought that of Mercedes Benz...

Really? Mercedes are sweet. I can't believe any German would think otherwise. I will admit that in the last decade BMWs have also become pretty sweet, but before that the only thing cool about them was their history of making good airplanes

[ahosang 0]

your really believe that? everyone does. selling hightech devises everywhere around the world. of course, they can be used for bad things, like almost everything.ok, we stop trading on the "free world market" as soon as you stop to support guys like bin laden and saddam who will turn into problems in the future. deal?definition please. as far as i know, there are no officiall "terrorist states" existing.hmmm, i always thought that of Mercedes Benz...

Of course, since you are from Bavaria!

[Nimue1995 1]

And I always thought that BMW's were for soccer moms. Show's what I know . But I've never ridden in or driven either one. I was a 4-H mom so we had to have an SUV that could carry a goat in the back to the vet.

[Nashtak 0]

But he took the fight to the terrorist, and that is something most of America wanted. Just because the democrats started running for the 04 and 08 elections by trashing the war, doesn't mean that at the core, we all wanted to take the fight to the middle east and not have it in the streets of the western world. Who wouldn't rather have Osama with an AK47 facing an armed Marine in Iraq than Osama with a car bomb in Chicago?

This made me ''WoW'' big time.

[Potomophobia 17]

Another wonderful BG quote:"Luckily the troops maintained a record breaking moral level that prevented a vietnam like losing of the war at home from permeating the misson that they conducted with great results."First:It is spelled "morale" not moral. If you had ever been a true leader at any time in your life you would know and respect the difference. You never have been and never will be a leader of men.Second:Oh crap..... there is so much more. Just read the small part of your ignorant post I quoted. permeating?misson?great results?vietnam?And the kicker.......... THEY.I was one of the "THEY" that you refer to.Please, just STFU about anything relating to the military. Everything you say insults me and every other man and woman who actually picked up a weapon, or gave their lives to this country.You got rich in America. No problem. That's what we all fought, and are still fighting for.But hey, keep smoking the cigars, driving yer Jag and golfing at the finest clubs. And don't forget to brag and boast to everyone within earshot about how much you have and how much those around you don't.I mean really........ after all we are just paupers..............right?

[Loismustdie 0]

Another wonderful BG quote:"Luckily the troops maintained a record breaking moral level that prevented a vietnam like losing of the war at home from permeating the misson that they conducted with great results."First:It is spelled "morale" not moral. If you had ever been a true leader at any time in your life you would know and respect the difference. You never have been and never will be a leader of men.Second:Oh crap..... there is so much more. Just read the small part of your ignorant post I quoted. permeating?misson?great results?vietnam?And the kicker.......... THEY.I was one of the "THEY" that you refer to.Please, just STFU about anything relating to the military. Everything you say insults me and every other man and woman who actually picked up a weapon, or gave their lives to this country.You got rich in America. No problem. That's what we all fought, and are still fighting for.But hey, keep smoking the cigars, driving yer Jag and golfing at the finest clubs. And don't forget to brag and boast to everyone within earshot about how much you have and how much those around you don't.I mean really........ after all we are just paupers..............right?

Seriously, you should meet him. Really nice guy. You're hard on for him just makes you look bad.

[Potomophobia 17]

Seriously, you should meet him. Really nice guy. You're hard on for him just makes you look bad.

Let's see....... a "guy?" whose screen name is Loismustdie is semiliterate (learn the difference between your and you're)has an "avatar" of a vapid male modeltells me I look bad.Gee...... I may lose some sleep over this one.

[Loismustdie 0]

Let's see....... a "guy?" whose screen name is Loismustdie is semiliterate (learn the difference between your and you're)has an "avatar" of a vapid male modeltells me I look bad.Gee...... I may lose some sleep over this one.

No, you're right. You're golden, and don't look douchy at all. My bad, carry on.

[Sal Paradise 57]

Let's see....... a "guy?" whose screen name is Loismustdie is semiliterate (learn the difference between your and you're)has an "avatar" of a vapid male modeltells me I look bad.Gee...... I may lose some sleep over this one.

you're contributions to this forum are invaluable.