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Nitting It Up At .05-.10


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Antistuff's comments about the difficulty of beating these stakes on FT due to the high rake have inspired me to try this. I've been playing these stakes to clear bonus on FT so I'm going to see if it's profitable to take a super-nitty approach to these tables. Here's an outline of my strategery:1) Only play hands with solid two-way potential unless the pot odds for a high-only or A2xx hand are irresistible2) Only raise solid hands in position3) Don't chase draws in marginal situations4) Play cautious postflop with one-way hands or hands where my edge is very small5) Drive hands postflop only when I have larger edgesComments welcome. I'm going to track my performance here and post hands along the way.

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Uneventful session overall. Here's a questionable hand from the night:Full Tilt Pot-Limit Omaha Hi/Lo, $0.10 BB (9 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comMP1 ($7.70)MP2 ($10.45)MP3 ($15.15)CO ($2)Button ($13.45)SB ($6.20)Hero (BB) ($11.80)UTG ($4.70)UTG+1 ($1.90)Preflop: Hero is BB with 6diamond.gif, 8club.gif, 5heart.gif, 10club.gif2 folds, MP1 calls $0.10, 2 folds, CO checks, Button calls $0.10, SB calls $0.05, Hero checksFlop: ($0.50) 6heart.gif, 6spade.gif, 9diamond.gif(5 players)SB checks, Hero checks, MP1 checks, CO checks, Button bets $0.25, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.25, MP1 calls $0.25, 1 foldTurn: ($1.25) Aheart.gif(3 players)Hero checks, MP1 checks, Button bets $0.10, Hero calls $0.10, 1 foldRiver: ($1.45) 5diamond.gif(2 players)Hero checks, Button bets $1.45, Hero calls $1.45Total pot: $4.35 | Rake: $0.40

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gl. remember to fold the nut flush sometimes. also don't push your big draws. draw to them when you can. having to do this will hurt you a lot. you're going to need to bluff a lot of missed rivers. if they check the river to you HU in this situation bet almost every time. ive actually thought about this a lot for some reason it caught my interest a while ago. please post results, im interested in if it can be done.

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I tried something like this and bled a lot of money I'm also hoping to see what comes of this.

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Any thoughts on the hand I posted?
that donk bet on the flop and donk-ten cent bet on the turn is swahili for "I have AAxx.. RAWR!".I mean, he can show up with 78 here and think he's valuing river, but if that's the case, put him on your friends list.The worst part about the ugly T65x type hands is you can make some insanely stellar versions of the second-best hand, and it's not even your fault cuz you see a free flop and stupidly cheap turn.Seriously, how does he have anything other than AA and make that idiotic turn bet?
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The worst part about the ugly T65x type hands is you can make some insanely stellar versions of the second-best hand, and it's not even your fault cuz you see a free flop and stupidly cheap turn.
Tell me about it. This hand cost me almost $2 and it was a garbage BB special.He actually had A6xx. The small turn bet was a bit difficult to interpret because players at this level will often throw out tiny bets with marginal hands when they're not sure of where they stand. Then I hit my boat on the river and had no choice but to call.
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Thoughts on this one?Full Tilt Pot-Limit Omaha Hi/Lo, $0.10 BB (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comUTG ($6.05)UTG+1 ($31.70)MP1 ($19.30)MP2 ($9.65)Hero (CO) ($8.50)Button ($10.90)SB ($22.70)BB ($9.85)Preflop: Hero is CO with Qspade.gif, 3heart.gif, Aheart.gif, 10spade.gifUTG calls $0.10, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.10, 1 fold, SB calls $0.05, BB checksFlop: ($0.40) 7spade.gif, 8spade.gif, 9heart.gif(4 players)SB bets $0.10, BB calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.10Turn: ($0.70) Kheart.gif(3 players)SB bets $0.10, BB raises to $1, Hero calls $1, SB calls $0.90 [2nd nut low draw and lots of outs to a nut high with the heart draw and straight draw, though the spade draw is non-nut]River: ($3.70) 3diamond.gif(3 players)SB bets $0.80, BB raises to $6.10, Hero folds, SB calls $5.30Total pot: $15.90 | Rake: $1.55

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OK, 3 jacks and QT of hearts give you mortal nuts : 5 outs.7 or 8 of hearts gives you nuts if no one boats up : 2 possible scoop outs.4 hearts give you nut high, but a weaker low: 4 outs for 1/2 pot.2 of hearts gives you at *least* 3 quarters. 1 out for 3/4 to full scoop3 other twos gives you 1/4 to 1/2 of the pot: 3 outs for 1/4 to 1/2.15 cards on the river give us a good chunk of this pot. So you've got roughly a 1 in 3 chance to pull it off, plus the implied odds of river betting. Your cost on the turn (providing SB doesnt raise behind you and simply calls) is about 3.7-1 (calling $1 to win $3.70.Mathmatically you can make this call easy if you are fairly certain the SB was weak-leading with a monster and is planning on raising.The real argument against calling is there is only 70 cents in the actual pot, so you will need huge implied odds to make the call worthwhile. Given the strong bet and weak pot-size and the need for implied odds to happen, I could justify laying this hand down. But calling is right there as well. Either play is solid. I'd feel better with some semblance of a made hand here, since if we are holding a king or two pair or something, we can bluff-catch. As it stands we are on a pure draw with no showdown value unless we connect. So 2/3 of the time we will be dumping on the river regardless of the action. Which reiterates why we *really* need to have implied odds to make this work.

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Thoughts on this one?Full Tilt Pot-Limit Omaha Hi/Lo, $0.10 BB (8 handed) - Full-Tilt Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.comUTG ($6.05)UTG+1 ($31.70)MP1 ($19.30)MP2 ($9.65)Hero (CO) ($8.50)Button ($10.90)SB ($22.70)BB ($9.85)Preflop: Hero is CO with Qspade.gif, 3heart.gif, Aheart.gif, 10spade.gifUTG calls $0.10, 3 folds, Hero calls $0.10, 1 fold, SB calls $0.05, BB checksFlop: ($0.40) 7spade.gif, 8spade.gif, 9heart.gif(4 players)SB bets $0.10, BB calls $0.10, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.10Turn: ($0.70) Kheart.gif(3 players)SB bets $0.10, BB raises to $1, Hero calls $1, SB calls $0.90 [2nd nut low draw and lots of outs to a nut high with the heart draw and straight draw, though the spade draw is non-nut]River: ($3.70) 3diamond.gif(3 players)SB bets $0.80, BB raises to $6.10, Hero folds, SB calls $5.30Total pot: $15.90 | Rake: $1.55
I know there is the whole discussion going about the rake and playing nitty, but these are precisely the spots where I feel you have to raise it up preflop...IMO
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all of cappy's math is wrong because the rake is TENPERCENT!!!!!!
Jesus.It's like when I first learned that Santa wasn't real.. I think I feel sick.. Yet another reason why I'm still eligible for all sign-up bonuses and rakebake on FT..
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You're almost willing me to fail...By the way, how would you factor the rake into Cappy's calculations?
Take 10% out of the current pot.... so if you were getting 3.7-1 on the turn, you'd actually be getting like 3.3-1.. Lol.. and you'd have to slice 10% off of your implied odds too.. yikes.
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I know there is the whole discussion going about the rake and playing nitty, but these are precisely the spots where I feel you have to raise it up preflop...IMO
i agree.
You're almost willing me to fail...By the way, how would you factor the rake into Cappy's calculations?
nah man, im rooting for you. you can take the rake out on each street as long as you remember to put it back in. (ftp lets you bet the pot size as if the rake wasn't taken out yet).
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Jesus.It's like when I first learned that Santa wasn't real.. I think I feel sick.. Yet another reason why I'm still eligible for all sign-up bonuses and rakebake on FT..
clear the bonus and then bounce. the bonus+rakeback is a good deal.
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clear the bonus and then bounce. the bonus+rakeback is a good deal.
That's the only reason I'm playing on FT now. I'm starting to get the itch to return to NLHE SnGs, and I've been missing 8-game on Stars, so I'm wondering if I'm even going to keep money on FT after my bonus period ends. You don't get rakeback for tourney fees, do you?*Edit: just discovered that tourney fees are eligible for rakeback so maybe I'll continue to use FT for my NLHE SnGs and Stars for other games
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Holy mother of hell do I hate this game.Full Tilt Poker Game #9806480258: Table Washburn - $0.05/$0.10 - Pot Limit Omaha H/L - 21:49:29 ET - 2009/01/01Seat 1: InDaMony ($0.90)Seat 2: JLMeyer ($3.50)Seat 3: alheocmo01 ($11.35)Seat 4: JSN84 ($3.45)Seat 5: Birts ($4.70)Seat 6: verok55 ($1.70)Seat 7: christa66 ($10.10)Seat 8: carpet guys ($6.50)Seat 9: jbreslin1 ($10.75)InDaMony posts the small blind of $0.05JLMeyer posts the big blind of $0.10The button is in seat #9*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to jbreslin1 [Th Ad 8d 2s]alheocmo01 raises to $0.35JSN84 has 15 seconds left to actJSN84 foldsBirts foldsverok55 foldschrista66 foldscarpet guys calls $0.35jbreslin1 calls $0.35InDaMony foldsJLMeyer folds*** FLOP *** [Qs 3d 5h]alheocmo01 bets $1.20carpet guys foldsjbreslin1 calls $1.20*** TURN *** [Qs 3d 5h] [5c]alheocmo01 bets $0.90jbreslin1 calls $0.90*** RIVER *** [Qs 3d 5h 5c] [4h]alheocmo01 bets $5.40jbreslin1 calls $5.40*** SHOW DOWN ***alheocmo01 shows [5s 5d 2d Ac] four of a kind, Fives, for high and 5,4,3,2,A, for lowjbreslin1 shows [Th Ad 8d 2s] a straight, Five high, for high and 5,4,3,2,A, for lowalheocmo01 wins the high pot ($7.30) with four of a kind, Fivesalheocmo01 ties for the low pot ($3.65) with 5,4,3,2,Ajbreslin1 ties for the low pot ($3.65) with 5,4,3,2,A*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $16.20 | Rake $1.60Board: [Qs 3d 5h 5c 4h]Seat 3: alheocmo01 showed [5s 5d 2d Ac] and won ($10.95) with HI: four of a kind, Fives; LO: 5,4,3,2,ASeat 9: jbreslin1 (button) showed [Th Ad 8d 2s] and won ($3.65) with HI: a straight, Five high; LO: 5,4,3,2,A

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Holy mother of hell do I hate this game.Full Tilt Poker Game #9806480258: Table Washburn - $0.05/$0.10 - Pot Limit Omaha H/L - 21:49:29 ET - 2009/01/01Seat 1: InDaMony ($0.90)Seat 2: JLMeyer ($3.50)Seat 3: alheocmo01 ($11.35)Seat 4: JSN84 ($3.45)Seat 5: Birts ($4.70)Seat 6: verok55 ($1.70)Seat 7: christa66 ($10.10)Seat 8: carpet guys ($6.50)Seat 9: jbreslin1 ($10.75)InDaMony posts the small blind of $0.05JLMeyer posts the big blind of $0.10The button is in seat #9*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to jbreslin1 [Th Ad 8d 2s]alheocmo01 raises to $0.35JSN84 has 15 seconds left to actJSN84 foldsBirts foldsverok55 foldschrista66 foldscarpet guys calls $0.35jbreslin1 calls $0.35InDaMony foldsJLMeyer folds*** FLOP *** [Qs 3d 5h]alheocmo01 bets $1.20carpet guys foldsjbreslin1 calls $1.20*** TURN *** [Qs 3d 5h] [5c]alheocmo01 bets $0.90jbreslin1 calls $0.90*** RIVER *** [Qs 3d 5h 5c] [4h]alheocmo01 bets $5.40jbreslin1 calls $5.40*** SHOW DOWN ***alheocmo01 shows [5s 5d 2d Ac] four of a kind, Fives, for high and 5,4,3,2,A, for lowjbreslin1 shows [Th Ad 8d 2s] a straight, Five high, for high and 5,4,3,2,A, for lowalheocmo01 wins the high pot ($7.30) with four of a kind, Fivesalheocmo01 ties for the low pot ($3.65) with 5,4,3,2,Ajbreslin1 ties for the low pot ($3.65) with 5,4,3,2,A*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $16.20 | Rake $1.60Board: [Qs 3d 5h 5c 4h]Seat 3: alheocmo01 showed [5s 5d 2d Ac] and won ($10.95) with HI: four of a kind, Fives; LO: 5,4,3,2,ASeat 9: jbreslin1 (button) showed [Th Ad 8d 2s] and won ($3.65) with HI: a straight, Five high; LO: 5,4,3,2,A
if you routinely call flops like that you have just found a huge leak in your game. the only reason to call that flop is because you 1) have position 2) have the nut low draw 3) can use those two things as leverage to steal the pot on the turn or the riveryou hit the perfect card to try to steal on the turn btw. other good cards are probably a nine, an ace, or a deuce. yes you would have been raising into the nuts, but when he repops you just fold (as in don't do this if you are going to price yourself in with a low draw). against most players just fold that flop.
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Yes, I am starting to realize that nitting it up also means not continuing past the flop unless I do flop a multi-way hand (I guess a gutshot to the nut low doesn't count). Especially since that was one of the few players I had a solid read on. Over 200+ hands that guy was playing around 10/7, which makes me look super-loose. I knew he was on a decent A2xx hand, so when I didn't pick up a diamond draw on the flop I knew I was playing to split the low half if I made it. Terrible on my part.Taking into account the read on the player, would you still advocate trying to take it away on the turn? Or should that move be saved for a player with a wider raising range?

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