Moving To Vegas To Play Poker

[whatgreatis 0]

you won't necessarily win more by buying in full.

I disagree with this so much it's not even funny.

[TraptSteve 0]

Really? You would prefer to play with 40-50 BB when an opening bet can be 5-8 BB? A Three bet is an all in for you. You are basically flipping at that point.I am not saying you should never buy short, but long term I don't think this makes any sense. Plus he is considering a $100 a buy in, when it's not. Even if you buy short stacked looking to double, you still have to view $200 as a buy via BR management, and he is considering playing "pro" on 10 buy ins.

I did not say I'm going pro with 10 buyins. I said I am going to find whatever job I for steady income, then use my small starting bankroll to try to earn income on the side.Should I lose it, it won't be the end of the world for me. I do not intend for poker to be my only source of income. If I need to go to a dealer school and work the stupid BJ tables for rent, I'll do it.Worse case senario I go home; regardless of ego.

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

you've considered the fact that people are being laid off left and right in your plans to quickly find a stable well paying job in a relatively expensive city to live in that will still afford you the flexibility to play poker, right? also, the psychological effect of playing on such a short roll will have an impact on your game. It sounds like it might be enough now, but have seriously 1 bad session and you'll be thinking "if i call this bet and lose, i'll only have xxx left in my bankroll...".

[TraptSteve 0]

It is a small portion of money to be playing on. If I don't have a job by the end of the second month (i have enough money for 3 months ), and I'm busted/low on my BR... I'll have keep the last 1k or so and go back home.Even if I ration out my buyins by going in for half... I'm basically at the mercy of the cards. And I've heard from everyone that the job market out there is horrible. I'll need to find a job before I can play. That would be my first priority.I can work though the holidays for some extra "cushion" money... leave in Feb maybe.

[MovingIn 0]

Vegas is in poor economic shape right now, and not many people out there are hiring. Plus, the cost of living is still bloated from the overgrowth of previous years. This is a bad time to move out there.

[Shark527 0]

This bankroll of $2000 for 20 $100 buyins playing 1/2. Are you saying your going to play 1/2 NL exclusively? You have any other games to fall back of if you think your NL isn't feeling premium one night?

[antistuff 0]

I disagree with this so much it's not even funny.

its not an opinion

[whatgreatis 0]

its not an opinion

lolololololOkay. You buy in for a dollar, I'll buy in for 200 and we'll see how much each of us win.

[Naked_Cowboy 0]

its not an opinion

it's more of a personal preference and table dependant than opinion, but if you know for a fact that you can make better turn decisions than the average player in your game, and the average pot size vs. your stack does not allow you to ever having a meaningful decision on the turn, you are losing value. if you are a bad player taking a shot trying to roll it up, then you limit your risk of ruin by buying in short, but I'd bet a huge sum of money that my win rate would be quite a bit higher buying in for as much as possible rather than 50bb in a small stakes live game.

[chgocubs99 0]

its not an opinion

Sorry, but it is a fact that your optimal winrate is higher buying in full than it is on a short stack, assuming you are moderately competent at poker. If you aren't moderately competant, your winrate will be negative either way.

[chgocubs99 0]

it's more of a personal preference and table dependant than opinion, but if you know for a fact that you can make better turn decisions than the average player in your game, and the average pot size vs. your stack does not allow you to ever having a meaningful decision on the turn, you are losing value. if you are a bad player taking a shot trying to roll it up, then you limit your risk of ruin by buying in short, but I'd bet a huge sum of money that my win rate would be quite a bit higher buying in for as much as possible rather than 50bb in a small stakes live game.

Yes. Not debatable.

[quadaces 0]

Being 23 I would say without a doubt do it. Do it now for a couple of reasons. First off you don't want to be like a lot of people in this forum who have a family and dream that they could do something like this. Do it while you have the opportunity. Do it while you don't have responsibilities. You are still young enough that if you don't succeed then you can do something else, like the family business.

[BaseJester 1]

I think you're probably better off playing as deep as possible into Vegas 1/2 games since you're a serious player.There is, however, a real game theory advantage to playing short. I can't remember who came up with this, but you can probably find it in rgp if you look.Imagine a game where all the players ante 1 chip. The hero buys-in short for 1 chip. Other players buy-in deep. The hero always play optimally. The villains, however, fold sometimes to the big bets on later streets. They're correct to do so, because they're concerned about the bets that attack their stack. However, they're making a huge mistake as far as the main pot is concerned and that's all we care about.Among evenly matched opponents, the short-stackers win the money.Short-stacking live poker is incredibly dull, though, and I'd prefer to work at McDonald's than short-stack $1/$2 NLHE. The players are doing stupid things on later streets that, in reality, we can exploit anyway.

[MovingIn 0]

Being 23 I would say without a doubt do it. Do it now for a couple of reasons. First off you don't want to be like a lot of people in this forum who have a family and dream that they could do something like this. Do it while you have the opportunity. Do it while you don't have responsibilities. You are still young enough that if you don't succeed then you can do something else, like the family business.

He doesn't have to do it now, and not doing it now doesn't mean he can't do it later. Dude's probably not going to start a family and lock into a mortgage and career if he doesn't go now.He should probably plan more and make sure he has a stronger chance of grounding himself in a stable living and work situation there, because chances are too good this attempt will flame out for reasons that are tangentially related at best to how he plays.

[TraptSteve 0]

I think you're probably better off playing as deep as possible into Vegas 1/2 games since you're a serious player.There is, however, a real game theory advantage to playing short. I can't remember who came up with this, but you can probably find it in rgp if you look.Imagine a game where all the players ante 1 chip. The hero buys-in short for 1 chip. Other players buy-in deep. The hero always play optimally. The villains, however, fold sometimes to the big bets on later streets. They're correct to do so, because they're concerned about the bets that attack their stack. However, they're making a huge mistake as far as the main pot is concerned and that's all we care about.Among evenly matched opponents, the short-stackers win the money.Short-stacking live poker is incredibly dull, though, and I'd prefer to work at McDonald's than short-stack $1/$2 NLHE. The players are doing stupid things on later streets that, in reality, we can exploit anyway.

You didn't even include a SW for your first statement. I'm comfortable buying in for the standard 100BB, but in an effort to conserve a small "bankroll", I would buy in for 50BB. From reading the responses here I've decided to work a couple more months here to pad my starting BR. Still, we're talking about 1-2 frickin' NLHE. I'm not sure how tough 1-2NLHE has gotten online, but it is still pretty soft live. Of course, the last time I played it in Vegas was in the middle of the '07 WSOP. Obviously the games were much better then. The question is how much so...One person said they're still pretty good. Can anyone else comment on this?As for the person who asked if I played any other games... no. I guess I could do some small stakes nut-peddling in limit Omaha.

[BaseJester 1]

You didn't even include a SW for your first statement.

It wasn't intended as sarcasm. If you're playing with the intention and expectation of winning, you are much more serious than the average Vegas 1/2 player.

I'm comfortable buying in for the standard 100BB, but in an effort to conserve a small "bankroll", I would buy in for 50BB. From reading the responses here I've decided to work a couple more months here to pad my starting BR. Still, we're talking about 1-2 frickin' NLHE. I'm not sure how tough 1-2NLHE has gotten online, but it is still pretty soft live.

Yeah, if you think you can make more playing deep (and you probably can), then building a roll that makes you comfortable playing deep is a good idea. I'm not sure that buying short really takes the swings out. You end up coin flipping a lot if you're doing it right.

[cubsfan44 0]

Youre moving to vegas to shortstack 1/2 NL???? The low limit games generally get tougher during the WSOP.Goodluck lol.

[antistuff 0]

Sorry, but it is a fact that your optimal winrate is higher buying in full than it is on a short stack, assuming you are moderately competent at poker. If you aren't moderately competant, your winrate will be negative either way.

what is an optimal winrate?

[Acid_Knight 2]

I didn't read that many of the replies.1. Those are 1/2 buyins2. Buying in for 50BBs at a time and calling $2000 "20 buyins" as opposed to buying in full and having 10 buyins is not a way to extend your BR. Your BR should really be an amount in relation to 100BB stacks and that's usually 25 buyins for online full ring games. Playing live, you can get away with less, but I'd definitely want more than 10.3. Buying in full allows you to maximize value on your hands. If you're not comfortable for any reason playing with a 100BB stack, you probably should not be trying to play poker for a living or whatever we're calling this.4. Make sure your 3 months of living expenses take into account food and entertainment and other incidental things which aren't included in your rent and utility bills. You should really have 5 or 6 months saved up fwiw.5. The 1/2 games are easy. Just play somewhere that gives you points or $$ back or whatever for the hours you log, like Caesar's or The Venetian.6. Good luck.

[chgocubs99 0]

what is an optimal winrate?

Though you don't care about the answer to the question and are instead saying this to challenge my "authority" on the subject, I'll do my best to answer anyway.Show me one professional poker player who buys in shortstacked. Does that "prove" anything? When 400 NBA players shoot a jump shot in basically the same manner...well I'm pretty sure they know what they're doing.Optimal online winrate would be probably 8-10ptbb/100 hands played, one-tabling 1/2NL (not that you really care about the numbers). I could do the math and translate that to $$$/hr live, but I won't waste either of our time since neither of us care. I've never seen a graph of someone shortstacking for more than 3ptbb/100. I don't have links, so don't ask. It's simply the product of soaking up information over the course of several years on poker forums, some of which, believe it or not, I actually learn from. If people weren't so stubborn, maybe they would too, instead of passing off some pipe dream fallacy as fact when, in reality, they really have no clue what they are talking about.Pick up on which people know what they are talking about when it comes to serious poker material, and which ones don't. With something as simple and obvious as whether shortstacking is an effective way for an above-average player to maximize winrate, you won't have to look very far.

[TraptSteve 0]

I didn't read that many of the replies.1. Those are 1/2 buyins2. Buying in for 50BBs at a time and calling $2000 "20 buyins" as opposed to buying in full and having 10 buyins is not a way to extend your BR. Your BR should really be an amount in relation to 100BB stacks and that's usually 25 buyins for online full ring games. Playing live, you can get away with less, but I'd definitely want more than 10.3. Buying in full allows you to maximize value on your hands. If you're not comfortable for any reason playing with a 100BB stack, you probably should not be trying to play poker for a living or whatever we're calling this.4. Make sure your 3 months of living expenses take into account food and entertainment and other incidental things which aren't included in your rent and utility bills. You should really have 5 or 6 months saved up fwiw.5. The 1/2 games are easy. Just play somewhere that gives you points or $$ back or whatever for the hours you log, like Caesar's or The Venetian.6. Good luck.

Meh.I'm going to put some more money away until March. Are there any retail/sales jobs out there? I'm not ashamed to work for 8 dollaz an hour.Clearly the amount of money I was considering moving down here with will not be enough(4.5k). Even with some of the places I've been looking at with rent for 500 a month, there is still food (200/ month as a conservative est.), and cell phone bill.So about 800 a month. 3k should be enough to cover all expenses for 3 months.3-4k for my 1-2nl br.This way I should have money to play when the WSOP comes back around.Cubsfan44, I found the 1-2 NL to be very easy for the brief time I played; 2-5 was noticably tougher

[chgocubs99 0]

Meh.I'm going to put some more money away until March. Are there any retail/sales jobs out there? I'm not ashamed to work for 8 dollaz an hour.Clearly the amount of money I was considering moving down here with will not be enough(4.5k). Even with some of the places I've been looking at with rent for 500 a month, there is still food (200/ month as a conservative est.), and cell phone bill.So about 800 a month. 3k should be enough to cover all expenses for 3 months.3-4k for my 1-2nl br.This way I should have money to play when the WSOP comes back around.Cubsfan44, I found the 1-2 NL to be very easy for the brief time I played; the 2-5 there was a noticable drop in "touristy"play and tougher overall.

There are three key points that I am going to try to drive home to you...okay 4.1) You are responding to a professional poker player that has years of experience, also happens to live in Vegas and play live, and is one of the more advanced poker thinkers on this site, and is giving you free, accurate, and worthwhile information THAT YOU ASKED FOR with "Meh". Just so you're aware.2) Quit bringing up the few hundred or so hands you played in the middle of summer last year. They're irrelevant.3) Quit bringing up the WSOP for Christ's sake. It doesn't matter, at all.4) I don't care what you do so ignore 1-3 if you want.

[MovingIn 0]

Meh.I'm going to put some more money away until March. Are there any retail/sales jobs out there? I'm not ashamed to work for 8 dollaz an hour.

Vegas is in poor economic shape right now, and not many people out there are hiring. Plus, the cost of living is still bloated from the overgrowth of previous years. This is a bad time to move out there.

You also assume, in allocating 500 a month for rent, that you're going to sublet or co-rent in a reliable living situation. And knowing the general population of Las Vegas (having lived there a while), that is a giant leap of faith. What's Plan B the first time your roommates flake on rent/bills or ditch you? How much time in resolving this will this take away from your playing time?There is a LOT more to planning something like this than just figuring out how much money you may need and then finding someone to room with.

[TraptSteve 0]

There are three key points that I am going to try to drive home to you...okay 4.1) You are responding to a professional poker player that has years of experience, also happens to live in Vegas and play live, and is one of the more advanced poker thinkers on this site, and is giving you free, accurate, and worthwhile information THAT YOU ASKED FOR with "Meh". Just so you're aware.2) Quit bringing up the few hundred or so hands you played in the middle of summer last year. They're irrelevant.3) Quit bringing up the WSOP for Christ's sake. It doesn't matter, at all.4) I don't care what you do so ignore 1-3 if you want.

I know exactly who Acid is and, TBH, was hoping he would get around to this thread. I may not post here regularly, but I'm not new to the forum either. His input confirmed some of concerns.Which is why I typed "meh"... then said the amount of money I was initially going to move with was too small. I was agreeing with his critique. Not shrugging off his advice.Maybe you should use context clues next time. Cub fans annoy me Oh and FWIW... I know an easy game when I see one, and the 1-2 games I played in were JUICY!

[TraptSteve 0]

You also assume, in allocating 500 a month for rent, that you're going to sublet or co-rent in a reliable living situation. And knowing the general population of Las Vegas (having lived there a while), that is a giant leap of faith. What's Plan B the first time your roommates flake on rent/bills or ditch you? How much time in resolving this will this take away from your playing time?There is a LOT more to planning something like this than just figuring out how much money you may need and then finding someone to room with.

Well, that is a risk everyone will have to accept. I plan on staying at a hotel for a few days before I move in to meet my room mate.If they flake, there are weeklong rates for about 200 a week at downtown casinos. Worst case senario I would take refuge there. My funds will be located either my bank account or at the casino(s) I play, so atleast that will be secured.