Discomfort With The Bailout

[El Guapo 8]

I told you, the inflation needs to somehow not go up with the wage.But as it stands now... minimum wage is not enough to even eat off the dollar menu. How does that somehow seem like the right thing to you?

I am not sure where you are going with this...Minimum wage jobs are not intended to be careers.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

It's certainly pretty well known that current minimum wages cannot keep pace with cost of living. Same is true here in Canada, if to a slightly lesser extent.

So don't take a minimum wage job (or at least not just one) if you are responsible for supporting a family.

[Suited_Up 2]

I am not sure where you are going with this...Minimum wage jobs are not intended to be careers.

$16/hr is barely enough to live off of anymore.I'm just saying that even the jobs that are careers are not nearly enough to live comfortably off of. That needs to change from the bottom up.How about we say $12/hr instead? Point is that $7.50 or whatever it is is not even close to enough. It might not even be that much, cause I know it's higher here in IL.

[Loismustdie 0]

I told you, the inflation needs to somehow not go up with the wage.But as it stands now... minimum wage is not enough to even eat off the dollar menu. How does that somehow seem like the right thing to you?

Don't take this wrong but I think this where your age comes in. You would be wise to listen to Guapo. I would say me but I like to go off on tangents now and then, whilst Guapo is much more level-headed.

[Suited_Up 2]

So don't take a minimum wage job (or at least not one) if you are responsible for supporting a family.

If you want to end welfare, you need a better solution than that. Because most of those people can't get better jobs than that. So you need to pay them enough to make them actually want to not sit around on welfare, and be able to afford living.

[Suited_Up 2]

Don't take this wrong but I think this where your age comes in. You would be wise to listen to Guapo. I would say me but I like to go off on tangents now and then, whilst Guapo is much more level-headed.

What does age have to do with anything?I don't know exactly how old you are, but it's probably not more than 10 years difference. How does that matter?

[Loismustdie 0]

What does age have to do with anything?I don't know exactly how old you are, but it's probably not more than 10 years difference. How does that matter?

Life experience and knowledge, so, everything.

[El Guapo 8]

$16/hr is barely enough to live off of anymore.I'm just saying that even the jobs that are careers are not nearly enough to live comfortably off of. That needs to change from the bottom up.How about we say $12/hr instead? Point is that $7.50 or whatever it is is not even close to enough. It might not even be that much, cause I know it's higher here in IL.

Your really not getting it. One of two things would happen, hyper inflation, which would counter act the pay increase or the company could no longer afford to do business. Walmart for instance has a 3-4% profit margin the operate on. That's it. You raise there cost of employees by 50%, they are raising prices or closing stores.This is black and white, no gray here.

[Suited_Up 2]

Life experience and knowledge, so, everything.

Until someone gives me actual reasons why what I'm saying is wrong, then I see no reason to change my mind.

[El Guapo 8]

If you want to end welfare, you need a better solution than that. Because most of those people can't get better jobs than that. So you need to pay them enough to make them actually want to not sit around on welfare, and be able to afford living.

Time limits on welfare. Problem solved.

[Suited_Up 2]

Your really not getting it. One of two things would happen, hyper inflation, which would counter act the pay increase or the company could no longer afford to do business. Walmart for instance has a 3-4% profit margin the operate on. That's it. You raise there cost of employees by 50%, they are raising prices or closing stores.This is black and white, no gray here.

I admitted in the original post that there is an issue with it, but I'm just saying, this is the type of things we need to do. I don't know how to actually implement it, but it's what needs to be done.

[Suited_Up 2]

Time limits on welfare. Problem solved.

That works for me. Someone pass that shit.But then you add a lot of new issues to the mix.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

If you want to end welfare, you need a better solution than that. Because most of those people can't get better jobs than that. So you need to pay them enough to make them actually want to not sit around on welfare, and be able to afford living.

This is just so wrong on so many levels.

[El Guapo 8]

I admitted in the original post that there is an issue with it, but I'm just saying, this is the type of things we need to do. I don't know how to actually implement it, but it's what needs to be done.

Look minimum wage jobs are meant for part time workers, kids and young adults.I'll keep using McD's as an example. If you are a 25 year old H.S. drop out from the inner city and you go to work for McD's getting $8.00 and hour for 25 hours per week, this is going to be tough to live on. Nobody argues that, since there is so much turnover in that industry, the ability to move up, to shift lead, night manager, manager, providing some work ethic is not that tough.There is no right to getting a good job. As that person moves up by proving he/she is a good worker, another person will be hired to fill their position, once that person ash reached a certain level, maybe they have some experience and then go manage an applebees. During this time, they may be sharing a 1 bedroom apartment with 2 other people, and that sucks, but in a few years they could be making 40-50K a year and share a 2 or 3 bedroom apartment. Is it ideal? No. Is it realistic, I think so.Better than welfare and section 8 housing.

[Suited_Up 2]

This is just so wrong on so many levels.

I'm pretty tired of people telling me how wrong I am with no other evidence that it's actually the case.Guapo is the only one even attempting it.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Until someone gives me actual reasons why what I'm saying is wrong, then I see no reason to change my mind.

Dude.You have made some statements that are just generic, "actual reasons" would be to take you to get an actual education on things you are trying to debate - such as welfare, minimum wage, and economics in general. You want to make a general comment and then get specific reasons why it is "wrong". Sorry, but you just need to go back to school on some of the basics.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

I'm pretty tired of people telling me how wrong I am with no other evidence that it's actually the case.Guapo is the only one even attempting it.

Good for him. I have no desire to try and educate you.

[Suited_Up 2]

Look minimum wage jobs are meant for part time workers, kids and young adults.I'll keep using McD's as an example. If you are a 25 year old H.S. drop out from the inner city and you go to work for McD's getting $8.00 and hour for 25 hours per week, this is going to be tough to live on. Nobody argues that, since there is so much turnover in that industry, the ability to move up, to shift lead, night manager, manager, providing some work ethic is not that tough.There is no right to getting a good job. As that person moves up by proving he/she is a good worker, another person will be hired to fill their position, once that person ash reached a certain level, maybe they have some experience and then go manage an applebees. During this time, they may be sharing a 1 bedroom apartment with 2 other people, and that sucks, but in a few years they could be making 40-50K a year and share a 2 or 3 bedroom apartment. Is it ideal? No. Is it realistic, I think so.Better than welfare and section 8 housing.

But some people really are 25 and doing that, and they also need to live off that, and possibly feed a family. So what then? They don't have time to wait a couple years to make 40k, which isn't enough either. Not to mention that the country has basically decided that if you don't have a college degree, you're not worthy of anything but a min-wage job anyway, regardless of how hard you've worked up to that point. If working hard mattered as much as you think, there'd be much less of an issue, but if you really want to make 50k+... there are very very very few places to do that by just working hard. It's just not the reality of this country anymore.

[Suited_Up 2]

Good for him. I have no desire to try and educate you.

Then why argue? If you can't change my mind, then why waste your time trying without backing anything up?I'm not going to just flip opinions because someone says I'm wrong.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

But some people really are 25 and doing that, and they also need to live off that, and possibly feed a family. So what then? They don't have time to wait a couple years to make 40k, which isn't enough either. Not to mention that the country has basically decided that if you don't have a college degree, you're not worthy of anything but a min-wage job anyway, regardless of how hard you've worked up to that point. If working hard mattered as much as you think, there'd be much less of an issue, but if you really want to make 50k+... there are very very very few places to do that by just working hard. It's just not the reality of this country anymore.

That is a poor decision they have made. A McD job isn't "designed" to support a family. I feel you're just wrong about being able to make $50K+. It isn't that difficult to take the time to get the education and background needed to make a true living wage. You may not be able to have a big home, multiple brand new vehicles, or tons of liesure time, but it is VERY possible.Recently there was an article in a local paper while the UAW was finalizing their Big 3 contracts. They were interviewing a guy who had been working for 15 years in the same auto plant his father had. He was photographed in front of his nice suburban home 35 miles from his factory job, with his brand new Ford 250 truck (with a Harley Davidson trailor hitch - think there may have been a bike in the garage?), there was also a Jaguar and a BOAT in the drive. The worker was worried about his ability to sustain his family lifestyle!!! His lifestyle was apparently based on spending every single penny, not planning for the future, and far exceeds my lifestyle and I make a lot more than $50K.Every American wants EVERY aspect of the American Dream. Not every American can, because not EVERY American job is designed to support all aspects of the Dream. If you have a job at McD's THEN DON'T HAVE A FAMILY. BECAUSE YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO SUPPORT ONE!!!

[Nimue1995 1]

Which is where education DOES come in. That's where I'd be wanting to see my tax dollars used - to help people get the education that they need to get decent jobs. But regardless there will always be those at the bottom in the form of teens & young adults coming in. Maybe someone wanting to get an education could do like my daughter did and go out and apply for about a thousand scholarships (this was basically what she did with her free time during her senior year), get grants from the government (something I again support) and college loans. And work parttime on campus while going to school. We did give her as much help as we could but basically could only afford about $800 per year. All the rest she came up with herself in order to go to school. And she worked her buns off. And she was able to afford to live during that time too (she didn't live at home). She ate a lot of raman and she came home every once in a while to shop in Mom's pantry. But she did it. And got a degree in journalism, a degree in history and a minor in communications in 4 - 1/2 years of college. I guess what I'm saying is that for those that are determined enough, the help is there. And that's where I support the help being. There are a number of other programs that the government has done that I support as being proactive to get people out of poverty such as Headstart. I don't think there's anyone here that supports letting people starve. However, we all have our own ideas of where the government's role should be in it.

[vbnautilus 48]

The government should just seize Warren Buffet and Bill Gates.

[Flushgarden 0]

I'm not an economist so I'm not going to pretend that I know whats best like everybody else here and everywhere else is doing. We just have to trust that the people in power will make the right decision. Its a very scary thing, I know. But we have to have faith in the system at some point, otherwise whats the point in having one?

[Suited_Up 2]

That is a poor decision they have made. A McD job isn't "designed" to support a family. I feel you're just wrong about being able to make $50K+. It isn't that difficult to take the time to get the education and background needed to make a true living wage. You may not be able to have a big home, multiple brand new vehicles, or tons of liesure time, but it is VERY possible.Recently there was an article in a local paper while the UAW was finalizing their Big 3 contracts. They were interviewing a guy who had been working for 15 years in the same auto plant his father had. He was photographed in front of his nice suburban home 35 miles from his factory job, with his brand new Ford 250 truck (with a Harley Davidson trailor hitch - think there may have been a bike in the garage?), there was also a Jaguar and a BOAT in the drive. Every American wants EVERY aspect of the American Dream. Not every American can, because not EVERY American job is designed to support all aspects of the Dream. If you have a job at McD's THEN DON'T HAVE A FAMILY. BECAUSE YOU CAN'T AFFORD TO SUPPORT ONE!!!

I'm not saying they're not making bad choices. But sometimes people make those choices before they think about what they're gonna do about it.I don't like it either, but that's just what happens. Pointing it out doesn't give any solutions though.Sure some people make it pretty well. My dad worked hard labor for his whole life, mostly as an ironworker. He built up a nice pension and supported my bro and I, and lived relatively comfortably, but he was also very good with his money, he never got out of line at all with it. But now he's just turning 65 and he's beat up beyond where I can even explain. He's been in and out of the hospital so many times in the past years I couldn't even tell you how much. He shouldn't be in the shape he is at 65, but he made enough to get by. But I can't say it was worth the price he paid for that. It's clearly not impossible, but it's also not preferable, and also not available to everyone by just asking nicely. Especially when things are in the shitter like they are now. Jobs just aren't easy to come by, shitty or not. But back to the main thing... sometimes you're in a situation before you find a job to support that situation. You can't exactly say fuck those people just because they did it backwards. Our government should be able to figure out a way to fix things from top to bottom, not just top to middle. That's the issue I have.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

I'm not an economist so I'm not going to pretend that I know whats best like everybody else here and everywhere else is doing. We just have to trust that the people in power will make the right decision. Its a very scary thing, I know. But we have to have faith in the system at some point, otherwise whats the point in having one?

Having educated opinions and debates is part of the check and balance on the system. Blind faith in our representatives is not a good idea in my opinion.