The Hi-lo(w) Content Thread

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

Would you also minraise a high only hand, like AAKJ double-suited, or pot-raise to narrow the field? If the latter, don't you risk giving away your hand by using different PF raises?

depending on the table I'll start raising any hand I want to play from MP to button preflop if "they" show a tendency of checking to me on the flop consistently

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

here was a nice pot from a guy who liked to play back at me a lot (yes I was a "bit" tilty when this hand occured)PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha High, $0.25 BB (3 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Button ($41.10)SB ($26.35)Hero ($11)Preflop: Hero is BB with 4, 4, K, K. Button calls $0.25, SB completes, Hero raises to $0.75, Button calls $0.50, SB calls $0.50.Flop: ($2.25) 5, 2, Q(3 players)SB checks, Hero bets $0.75, Button folds, SB calls $0.75.Turn: ($3.75) 5(2 players)SB bets $2.25, Hero calls $2.25.River: ($8.25) 4(2 players)SB bets $7.85, Hero calls $7.25 (All-In).Final Pot: $22.75Results in white below: SB has 2c Kh 7c 8s (two pair, fives and twos). Hero has 4c 4s Kd Ks (full house, fours full of fives). Outcome: Hero wins $22.75.

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

SHIP IT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha/8, $0.05 BB (6 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)UTG ($3.28)Hero ($5.67)CO ($11.41)Button ($14.99)SB ($6.54)BB ($12.23)Preflop: Hero is MP with 7, J, A, 8. 1 fold, Hero calls $0.05, CO raises to $0.2, Button calls $0.20, 1 fold, BB calls $0.15, Hero calls $0.15.Flop: ($0.82) J, 6, 9(4 players)BB checks, Hero checks, CO bets $0.5, Button calls $0.50, BB calls $0.50, Hero raises to $3.32, CO calls $2.82, Button calls $2.82, BB folds.Turn: ($11.28) 2(3 players)Hero bets $2.15 (All-In), CO calls $2.15, Button calls $2.15.River: ($17.73) Q(3 players, 1 all-in)CO bets $5.74 (All-In), Button folds.Final Pot: $17.73Results in white below: Hero has 7d Js As 8c (High: flush, ace high). CO has Kh 3d Ks 2s (High: flush, king high). Outcome: Hero wins $17.73.

[jmbreslin 0]

Wow, nice river. A spade lower than 9 and you're likely splitting the pot.That was played more like a PLO hand than PLO8. Honestly, I probably fold that hand PF in that position. And once I'm raised, I'm definitely getting out of the way. Your low potential is virtually worthless and the high potential isn't fantastic (mid-range straight draws are trouble in PLO8). Good thing you got the best flop you could hope for.

[antistuff 0]

Honestly, I probably fold that hand PF in that position.

yep.but against a raise from a either a ABC tag or bad player when you think its going to be heads up be happy to play hands like that...IN POSITION.

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

Wow, nice river. A spade lower than 9 and you're likely splitting the pot.That was played more like a PLO hand than PLO8. Honestly, I probably fold that hand PF in that position. And once I'm raised, I'm definitely getting out of the way. Your low potential is virtually worthless and the high potential isn't fantastic (mid-range straight draws are trouble in PLO8). Good thing you got the best flop you could hope for.

yeah, it was one of those it's my last hand so lets see a flop situations and it smacked me dead in the teeth!!!!

[antistuff 0]

sometimes my balls dont fit into my underwear. its not the worst problem to have.also, i think synergy should have called with his a2 even if he knew he was getting 1/4 (too lazy to do the math, but it looks right to me). stevo was loose enough that he didn't have to have an a2 there. ----------Full Tilt Poker Game #6383169346: Table Tacoma (deep) - $0.50/$1 - Pot Limit Omaha H/L - 3:45:40 ET - 2008/05/12Seat 1: synergypoker ($86.20)Seat 2: volcomrider182 ($97)Seat 3: CeeYaLtr ($82.90)Seat 4: antistuff ($95.50)Seat 5: stevo_78 ($60.05)Seat 6: 53095 ($56.70)Seat 7: TK84 ($99.85)Seat 8: Axiom27 ($247)Seat 9: KantPlay004 ($91.70)KantPlay004 posts the small blind of $0.50synergypoker posts the big blind of $15 seconds left to act53095 posts a dead small blind of $0.5053095 posts $1The button is in seat #8*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to antistuff [2s 2d 8d Ad]volcomrider182 foldsCeeYaLtr calls $1antistuff calls $1stevo_78 calls $153095 has 15 seconds left to act53095 raises to $2TK84 foldsAxiom27 foldsKantPlay004 foldssynergypoker calls $1CeeYaLtr calls $1antistuff calls $1stevo_78 calls $1*** FLOP *** [Jd 5h Td]synergypoker checksCeeYaLtr checksantistuff checksstevo_78 checks53095 checks*** TURN *** [Jd 5h Td] [7s]synergypoker bets $11CeeYaLtr foldsantistuff calls $11stevo_78 calls $1153095 calls $11*** RIVER *** [Jd 5h Td 7s] [8c]synergypoker has 15 seconds left to actsynergypoker bets $27.50antistuff has 15 seconds left to actantistuff raises to $82.50, and is all instevo_78 calls $47.05, and is all in53095 has 15 seconds left to act53095 foldssynergypoker has 15 seconds left to actsynergypoker foldsUncalled bet of $35.45 returned to antistuff*** SHOW DOWN ***antistuff shows [2s 2d 8d Ad] a pair of Eights, for high and 8,7,5,2,A, for lowstevo_78 shows [2c Ac 9h 3c] Ace Jack high, for high and 8,7,5,2,A, for lowantistuff wins the high pot ($86.80) with a pair of Eightsantistuff ties for the low pot ($43.40) with 8,7,5,2,Astevo_78 ties for the low pot ($43.40) with 8,7,5,2,A*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $176.60 | Rake $3Board: [Jd 5h Td 7s 8c]Seat 1: synergypoker (big blind) folded on the RiverSeat 2: volcomrider182 didn't bet (folded)Seat 3: CeeYaLtr folded on the TurnSeat 4: antistuff showed [2s 2d 8d Ad] and won ($130.20) with HI: a pair of Eights; LO: 8,7,5,2,ASeat 5: stevo_78 showed [2c Ac 9h 3c] and won ($43.40) with HI: Ace Jack high; LO: 8,7,5,2,ASeat 6: 53095 folded on the RiverSeat 7: TK84 didn't bet (folded)Seat 8: Axiom27 (button) didn't bet (folded)Seat 9: KantPlay004 (small blind) folded before the Flop

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

NH!!!! Antistuff

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

I think you'll like this one PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha/8, $0.05 BB (5 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Hero ($6.73)Button ($6.77)SB ($10.30)BB ($5.35)UTG ($0.48)Preflop: Hero is MP with 9 , A , 9 , 2 . 1 fold, Hero calls $0.05, 2 folds, BB checks.Flop: ($0.12) 8 , 6 , 4 (2 players)BB bets $0.12, Hero calls $0.12.Turn: ($0.36) 4 (2 players)BB bets $0.36, Hero raises to $1.44, BB calls $1.08.River: ($3.24) J (2 players)Hero bets pot villain foldsFinal Pot: $3.24Results in white below: BB doesn't show. Hero has 9d Ah 9s 2s (Low: 8, 6, 4, 2, A | High: two pair, nines and fours). Outcome: Hero wins $3.24.

[jmbreslin 0]

antistuff, would you be willing to share your thought process on the river there? It's a pretty threatening board, with several straight possibilities that could have filled on the river. Did you assume that villains were all on low draws because of the passive play (no flop bets, no turn raises)? In other words, did you think you stood a decent chance of bluffing them off whatever highs they may have had, or did you not care if they called because you figured there was a decent chance your high was good enough?

[antistuff 0]

antistuff, would you be willing to share your thought process on the river there? It's a pretty threatening board, with several straight possibilities that could have filled on the river. Did you assume that villains were all on low draws because of the passive play (no flop bets, no turn raises)? In other words, did you think you stood a decent chance of bluffing them off whatever highs they may have had, or did you not care if they called because you figured there was a decent chance your high was good enough?

i actually thought stevo for a straight and wanted to get synergy to fold his a2 so stevo and me could split his retarded bet into the river. i have a feeling synergy has me beat for high here a lot but i think when i make a big raise like that he is going to try to make a good lay down against me because i feel like he views me as the lucky idiot who always has it. in retrospect, im not entirely sure why i read synergy for being weak tight. i can't recall any previous hands with him that would have led me to that conclusion. there is a pretty general stereotype of players at this level who are way too weak tight, and his stats certainly fit the bill so maybe that was it. what ended up happening was a pretty nice surprise. while not exactly a standard hand, it illustrates an idea vital for playing this game. sometimes when you have a lock on one side and a weak hand on the other you have to try to push people out.

[jmbreslin 0]

Yeah, that idea has come up in discussion before. My first thought when looking at a hand like that is I'm going to play it carefully because I don't want to get quartered, but what you've said before is that playing these situations aggressively is +ev because the $ you make from pushing people off hands more than makes up for the occasional quartering. But I'm not covinced it would work very well at my stakes (.02-.05) because good laydowns are much less likely at that level.

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

ummmm................. can you say pussed out? couldn't figure what he would raise there that I beat but by just calling the raise on the turn I set him up to pay me off then just plain pussed out! PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha/8, $0.05 BB (5 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)MP ($17.80)Hero ($5.97)SB ($5.44)BB ($13.18)UTG ($7.27)Preflop: Hero is Button with Q , Q , 2 , A . UTG raises to $0.1, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.10, 2 folds.Flop: ($0.27) K , A , A (2 players)UTG checks, Hero bets $0.1, UTG calls $0.10.Turn: ($0.47) Q (2 players)UTG checks, Hero bets $0.4, UTG raises to $0.8, Hero calls $0.40.River: ($2.07) 6 (2 players)UTG checks, Hero bets $1, UTG raises to $2, Hero calls $1.Final Pot: $6.07Results in white below: UTG has Ts 9c 6h Jh (High: straight, ace high). Hero has Qs Qd 2c Ah (High: full house, aces full of queens). Outcome: Hero wins $6.07.

[jmbreslin 0]

Players at these stakes are very good at overvaluing mediocre hands - he could be playing anything from a made straight or flush on the turn to trip Aces with a lower kicker. He's probably not putting you on a boat because of your small flop lead. Absolutely amazing that he would play a straight so aggressively on such a threatening board. Just shows how bad some of the players are at this level. The thing is, you have no idea whether he's trapping w/ AK when he check-calls the flop and then minraises the turn, so don't beat yourself up about not getting more value out of the hand.

[antistuff 0]

ummmm................. can you say pussed out? couldn't figure what he would raise there that I beat but by just calling the raise on the turn I set him up to pay me off then just plain pussed out! PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha/8, $0.05 BB (5 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)MP ($17.80)Hero ($5.97)SB ($5.44)BB ($13.18)UTG ($7.27)Preflop: Hero is Button with Q , Q , 2 , A . UTG raises to $0.1, 1 fold, Hero calls $0.10, 2 folds.Flop: ($0.27) K , A , A (2 players)UTG checks, Hero bets $0.1, UTG calls $0.10.Turn: ($0.47) Q (2 players)UTG checks, Hero bets $0.4, UTG raises to $0.8, Hero calls $0.40.River: ($2.07) 6 (2 players)UTG checks, Hero bets $1, UTG raises to $2, Hero calls $1.Final Pot: $6.07Results in white below: UTG has Ts 9c 6h Jh (High: straight, ace high). Hero has Qs Qd 2c Ah (High: full house, aces full of queens). Outcome: Hero wins $6.07.

i would probably check/call that river. depends on the player i guess though.

[checkymcfold 0]

is this like a challenge thread? if it is, then i'd like to say that i played my first session of LO8 in 4 months today (to start warming up for june in vegas) and won 20BB at 5/10. ship my 2nd o8 winning session this year, lol.no interesting hands to post, though. maybe it's worth saying that i VALUEraised a357 rainbow utg once.

[antistuff 0]

is this like a challenge thread? if it is, then i'd like to say that i played my first session of LO8 in 4 months today (to start warming up for june in vegas) and won 20BB at 5/10. ship my 2nd o8 winning session this year, lol.no interesting hands to post, though. maybe it's worth saying that i VALUEraised a357 rainbow utg once.

when are you going to be in vegas in june? im going to be there the 19th so the 24th.

[checkymcfold 0]

when are you going to be in vegas in june? im going to be there the 19th so the 24th.

gonna be there for all of june and at least a couple days in july. not quite sure about the july part yet, though.

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

ooops double post Nice to see you back in the o8 forum Checky!

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

raise you say? ok, I guess I'll just callPokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha/8, $0.05 BB (4 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver Cards)Hero ($5.05)SB ($10.36)BB ($9.95)UTG ($6.34)Preflop: Hero is Button with , , , . UTG calls $0.05, Hero raises to $0.15, SB calls $0.13, BB calls $0.10, UTG calls $0.10.Flop: ($0.60) , , (4 players)SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $0.3, SB folds, BB raises to $0.6, UTG folds, Hero calls $0.30.Turn: ($1.80) (2 players)BB bets $1.75, Hero calls $1.75.River: ($5.30) (2 players)BB bets all in and hero calls total pot $10.40 stupid converterFinal Pot: $5.30Results in white below: BB has Qh 6h 7s 9s (High: flush, king high). Hero has Ah 2d As 4h (Low: 7, 4, 3, 2, A | High: flush, ace high). Outcome: Hero wins $5.30.

[jmbreslin 0]

My lord, man, how do you seem to find these players? It's like they're giving away money.Nice flop...and turn...

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

My lord, man, how do you seem to find these players? It's like they're giving away money.Nice flop...and turn...

I know it's crazy! I don't think I'll ever go back to full ring and consistently min raising/2-3x tilts people like mad!!!!!

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

luv getting shoved at on the rvr when you are holding the nutz PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha/8, $0.05 BB (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Hero ($6.34)UTG ($10.33)MP ($4.40)CO ($6.15)Button ($3.92)SB ($9.95)Preflop: Hero is BB with 8 , 6 , J , A . 1 fold, MP calls $0.05, CO calls $0.05, Button calls $0.05, SB completes, Hero checks.Flop: ($0.25) 7 , Q , J (5 players)SB checks, Hero checks, MP checks, CO bets $0.25, Button calls $0.25, SB folds, Hero calls $0.25, MP folds.Turn: ($1) 4 (3 players)Hero bets $0.95, CO calls $0.95, Button folds.River: ($2.90) K (2 players)Hero bets $1.55, CO raises to $4.9, Hero calls $3.35.Final Pot: $12.70Results in white below: Hero has 8d 6s Jh As (High: flush, ace high). CO has Ad 8c Ks 2s (High: flush, king high). Outcome: Hero wins $12.70.

[rvrchsrhtr 0]

then a couple hands later same table................. A2 anyone? PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha/8, $0.05 BB (6 handed) Poker Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)Hero ($11.23)MP ($10.22)CO ($4.64)Button ($3.38)SB ($4.16)BB ($9.91)Preflop: Hero is UTG with Q , 3 , A , 2 . Hero calls $0.05, 1 fold, CO raises to $0.1, Button calls $0.10, SB calls $0.08, BB calls $0.05, Hero calls $0.05.Flop: ($0.50) 5 , 4 , 6 (5 players)SB checks, BB bets $0.5, Hero calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, Button folds, SB folds.Turn: ($2) 7 (3 players)BB bets $1.9, Hero calls $1.90, CO calls $1.90.River: ($7.70) K (3 players)Final Pot: $7.70everyone gets it all in final pot $24.66 (stupid converter)Results in white below: BB has As 6d Jc 2s (Low: 6, 5, 4, 2, A | High: one pair, sixes). Hero has Qd 3h Ah 2c (Low: 6, 5, 4, 2, A | High: flush, ace high). CO has 6h Ac 2d 5d (Low: 6, 5, 4, 2, A | High: two pair, sixes and fives). Outcome: Hero wins $5.13. CO wins $1.28. BB wins $1.28.

[jmbreslin 0]

The great thing about this game at these stakes is that when things aren't going well, all it takes is one good hand and a maniac donk to play right into you. MP1 was a guy who had been playing the "push every hand and hope the poker gods come through with cards" strategy since he sat down.PokerStars Pot-Limit Omaha/8, $0.05 BB (8 handed) Poker-Stars Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)MP2 ($2.20)CO ($10.26)Button ($4)SB ($4.79)BB ($15.21)UTG ($3.30)Hero ($6.12)MP1 ($14.32)Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J, K, 5, A. 1 fold, Hero calls $0.05, MP1 calls $0.05, MP2 calls $0.05, CO calls $0.05, 1 fold, SB completes, BB checks.Flop: ($0.30) Q, T, K(6 players)SB checks, BB checks, Hero bets $0.1, MP1 raises to $0.3, MP2 calls $0.30, CO folds, SB folds, BB folds, Hero raises to $1.5, MP1 raises to $3, MP2 calls $1.85 (All-In), Hero raises to $7.47, MP1 calls $3.07.Turn: ($6.75) Q(3 players, 1 all-in)River: ($6.75) 8(3 players, 1 all-in)Final Pot: $15.99Results:Hero has Jc Kc 5h Ah (High: straight, ace high). MP1 has 2d 9c 3c 6d (High: one pair, queens). MP2 has Jh Ks 7h Ts (High: two pair, kings and queens). Outcome: Hero wins $15.99.