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I have a very simple rule about slowplayed hands in multi-way pots.If I play a hand like rags preflop, I fold it like rags post-flop. :club:

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I have a very simple rule about slowplayed hands in multi-way pots.If I play a hand like rags preflop, I fold it like rags post-flop. :club:
QFMFTEDIT: Someone kill this thread. There's no strat in discussing AA limped v the rest of the table.
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Josh friggin post the results already, you aren't going to get anymore insight unless you just want people to guess random hands.
Hi. Welcome to the Strat Forum. The land where results don't matter. :club:
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Hi. Welcome to the Strat Forum. The land where results don't matter. :club:
Yes they do. Because he can post how he check-raise shoved the river, got a fold, and we can mock him for finding a way to turn aces into a bluff.
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I have a very simple rule about slowplayed hands in multi-way pots.If I play a hand like rags preflop, I fold it like rags post-flop. :club:
QFT. Limping AA with 4 in means your playing for set value. I c/f every street.
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Most of y'all have reached correct conclusions, and yet no one's keyed in on the levels (images and psychology) at play. Jadaki says that his tight image is relevant here, right? Despite the fact that we've underrepresented our hand and therefore villain could be raising lighter (single pairs and draws), this is unlikely if he shows any perception for our image. Additionally, if this bet-sizing is standard for the game, it's unlikely that a competent villain takes it immediately for weakness. Two bets OOP from a "tight" SB on this board is indicative of strength. He confronts that strength with a raise. Y'all have concluded that his range beats ours.

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Most of y'all have reached correct conclusions, and yet no one's keyed in on the levels (images and psychology) at play. Jadaki says that his tight image is relevant here, right? Despite the fact that we've underrepresented our hand and therefore villain could be raising lighter (single pairs and draws), this is unlikely if he shows any perception for our image. Additionally, if this bet-sizing is standard for the game, it's unlikely that a competent villain takes it immediately for weakness. Two bets OOP from a "tight" SB on this board is indicative of strength. He confronts that strength with a raise. Y'all have concluded that his range beats ours.
TY for the response. EG if you want results I'll send them to you in a PM later, I don't plan on posting them because Acid is right. I guess I don't get the point of a strat forum is if the only advise anyone ever has is never limp aces. If every person plays every hand the exact same way it kind of defeats the purpose, right? I posted the hand because I had put myself in a tough spot on the turn and wondered what other players would do._____Example of a hand that took place roughly 30 minutes before this one.Hero is AA, in SB with 168 in play.UTG folds, UTG +1 raises 10.00, MP1 Calls, Folds to Button who calls, SB raises to 50.00, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, Button Calls.4 players, pot = 202.00Flop AKKHero Bets 118, UTG+1 Folds, MP1 Calls, Button Folds._____Difference between this hand and the one posted is the preflop raise from EP, 2 callers and all 3 of these players being willing to put a lot of cash in preflop. In the hand originally posted only one of these players was still at the table and he folded preflop. The table had tightened up, no one was still calling huge raises preflop. A raise to twenty would have caused the table to fold around, even a raise to 10-16 (my standard raise in this game) from me would have gone uncalled... I asked this of the players who limped preflop after the hand was over, they all confirmed they were not playing their hands to a raise from me. Raising anything less than that wasn't going to filter out limping hands anyway so the hand plays nearly the same.
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I guess I don't get the point of a strat forum is if the only advise anyone ever has is never limp aces. If every person plays every hand the exact same way it kind of defeats the purpose, right? I posted the hand because I had put myself in a tough spot on the turn and wondered what other players would do.
It's not that I've never limped with AA, but I'd bet a lot of money that I've never limped from the SB after 3? limpers. I raise in that spot 100% of the time, if everyone folds so be it. I prefer not to intentionally put myself in tough spots if I can avoid it.
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It's not that I've never limped with AA, but I'd bet a lot of money that I've never limped from the SB after 3? limpers. I raise in that spot 100% of the time, if everyone folds so be it. I prefer not to intentionally put myself in tough spots if I can avoid it.
Exactly.When you get AA, you want to position yourself to win a big pot against a hand that you dominate. You preferably want to be HU in this pot since if it's a multiway pot, someone usually has >1 pair when they put a lot of money in.There are very few "nevers" or "onlys" in poker.I would never ever ever ever ever ever ever limp the SB with AA or check in the BB with AA after 3 players limp in. There is literally no reason for it. You can try and defend this however you want, but all it is is one massive mistake.Reasons to limp AA/KK etc...1. There is an aggro player behind you that you are more or less certain will raise2. See #1Limping AA/KK UTG or in EP in a FR game is excusable as a way to mix up your play and enable you to limp other more speculative hands while discouraging people to raise your limp for fear that you might have AA.The thing is, when you play the hand like this, you make it very difficult to play well and win a big pot since you know nothing about your hands. Also, since you KNOW that you have the best hand, you are making a HUGE mistake by not having your opponents pay a steep price preflop to outdraw you.Also, I think you should post the results here anyway because it's a good conclusion to the thread. The discussion has been mostly exhausted and now it's time for people to get to know how the hand played out because they are curious.
A raise to twenty would have caused the table to fold around, even a raise to 10-16 (my standard raise in this game) from me would have gone uncalled... I asked this of the players who limped preflop after the hand was over, they all confirmed they were not playing their hands to a raise from me. Raising anything less than that wasn't going to filter out limping hands anyway so the hand plays nearly the same.
The only thing that this means is that if you're getting them to put in any amount of $$ post flop, they probably have you beat.Just raise preflop. If they fold, then they fold.The fact that people are so weary to play against you because you are too tight also speaks to the fact that you must open up your game so that people will be forced to consider that you are raising weaker hands and bluffing more frequently. It's easy to play AA and KK. Try playing a little more poker and you'll find that it'll be a lot more profitable.
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I guess I don't get the point of a strat forum is if the only advise anyone ever has is never limp aces. If every person plays every hand the exact same way it kind of defeats the purpose, right? I posted the hand because I had put myself in a tough spot on the turn and wondered what other players would do.
I limp them in the BB if the entire table folds around to the SB who only completes. I limp them UTG or very EP if the table is rife with raise monkeys, planning on repopping when it gets back to me. We're not saying "never find yourself in a spot where you've limped AA to multiple players." What we are saying is that purposefully limping AA is bad strat. With AA, you have a hand with the ultimate PF value. So that's where you capture the value -- PF.
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I'll raise my hand and say I've limped aces trying to get action. I also don't overplay them postflop and know when to get rid of them...But, as everyone else said, not because this is a secret conspiracy club, but because of your *position* AND the *number of limpers* this is the worst time ever to limp aces... I disagree with Acid that checking options from the BB with them is worse...I'm all for being deceptive when the time is right... I probably do it too often myself... but NEVER FROM THE SB AT FR!!!jeeze... even never from the SB at 6-max.It just puts you in a horrific spot for the rest of the hand REGARDLESS of how the flop comes down. Honestly you should have lied and said you had tp/tk or a slight overpair in this spot... bc that's essentially what you have.The SB is the worst position on the table... and anybody who plays it less than TAG has a leak in their game as far as I'm concerned

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I limp them in the BB if the entire table folds around to the SB who only completes. I limp them UTG or very EP if the table is rife with raise monkeys, planning on repopping when it gets back to me. We're not saying "never find yourself in a spot where you've limped AA to multiple players." What we are saying is that purposefully limping AA is bad strat. With AA, you have a hand with the ultimate PF value. So that's where you capture the value -- PF.
These are good places to limp them. I have one more. A maniac in front of you has already raised big. You feel it is pretty likely he will fold to your reraise. You want to get some mileage out of your aces, so you can call him here and let him bet off his chips to you. Maybe he has AK or AQ and a K or Q come on the flop. You stand to make a lot of money this way. It is risky and you don't want to try it all the time.
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I have a thing I do to justify a bad call. I'll say, "it's either a set or nothing and it's really hard to hit a set" and then I'll call with fourteenth pair. I feel like your line about mixing it up by not raising from the SB with AA is similar. You're going to constantly playing a hand that *feels* strong to you OOP against multiple players with your fingers crossed that you're good. Yeah, a raise might just win the blinds, but a limp will most likely lose you a big pot. As Acid said, this is one of the rare "always" in poker. We're not saying never to limp aces. You seem to be a tight player, so maybe it will be profitable for you in the right spots. We're saying never limp aces in the SB in a multi-way pot.

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You raise and everyone folds you win 5BBs.Do you think that on average if you limped in this spot you would make more than 5BBs a hand postflop? I can't remember my exact stats and would be interested to hear other peoples, but i don't think AA in cash game is even a 10BB/hand winner for me(this just could be because i suck though), even if you just take down that blinds i don't think it's that far away from what you would make limping it, maybe even more EV/

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I disagree with Acid that checking options from the BB with them is worse...
If you're in the SB, at least there's a 0.00001% chance that the BB will wake up with a hand and raise and you can lay down the super sneaky SB LRR since you'll never get credit for having AA there because what kind of donk limps AA in the SB after 3 limpers.If you're in the BB, there's nobody left to do your dirty work. Why aren't you charging people to outdraw you?I still contend that checking in the BB is worse.Case in point:Last summer, 5/10 @ Bellagio. Guy limps UTG. I limp 57s behind him. 2 more limps. SB completes, BB checks. Flop is 664r. BB donks into the field for $50 into $60. I call, one other guy calls. The turn is a 3. He bets 3/4 of the pot and I flat call, figuring he has a naked 6 much of the time and I will get more by NOT raising here cause he's a bad player. The river is a 5. He checks, I bet like 80% of the pot and he calls saying he's pretty sure I got there. He flips over AA.He checked in the BB after 5 people limped into the pot and then played a huge pot with AA. Surprise, surprise, he wasn't winning.
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If you're in the SB, at least there's a 0.00001% chance that the BB will wake up with a hand and raise and you can lay down the super sneaky SB LRR since you'll never get credit for having AA there because what kind of donk limps AA in the SB after 3 limpers.
LOLok... i guess that makes up for being more OOPit still sounds rather worst case scenerioish...Freaking small blind... for me... it'd prolly be more +EV to fold AA from the SB here than limp it.
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Freaking small blind... for me... it'd prolly be more +EV to fold AA from the SB here than limp it.
Surely just limping and set mining is profitable.
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. . . , even a raise to 10-16 (my standard raise in this game) from me would have gone uncalled... I asked this of the players who limped preflop after the hand was over, they all confirmed they were not playing their hands to a raise from me.
Why did you even look at your cards, then? Raise and take the free money. "Mixing it up" doesn't magically rationalize anything you do. The goal of poker is not to trick the villains; the goal of poker is to win money. If you trick the villains (say, by convincing them you don't have AA) it doesn't matter unless it gets you money.It's like you walk up to a pencil sharpener, pencil in hand, and think, "Everyone expects me to sharpen this pencil, but I'm going to mix it up." Then you whip out your cock and sharpen that instead and yell, "Ha ha, bitches, you never saw that coming!"Well, no, they didn't. But you still have a dull pencil and bleeding dick.
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Why did you even look at your cards, then? Raise and take the free money. "Mixing it up" doesn't magically rationalize anything you do. The goal of poker is not to trick the villains; the goal of poker is to win money. If you trick the villains (say, by convincing them you don't have AA) it doesn't matter unless it gets you money.It's like you walk up to a pencil sharpener, pencil in hand, and think, "Everyone expects me to sharpen this pencil, but I'm going to mix it up." Then you whip out your cock and sharpen that instead and yell, "Ha ha, bitches, you never saw that coming!"Well, no, they didn't. But you still have a dull pencil and bleeding dick.
Jester for President!
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It's like you walk up to a pencil sharpener, pencil in hand, and think, "Everyone expects me to sharpen this pencil, but I'm going to mix it up." Then you whip out your cock and sharpen that instead and yell, "Ha ha, bitches, you never saw that coming!"Well, no, they didn't. But you still have a dull pencil and bleeding dick.
Good analogy :club: .
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Why did you even look at your cards, then? Raise and take the free money. "Mixing it up" doesn't magically rationalize anything you do. The goal of poker is not to trick the villains; the goal of poker is to win money. If you trick the villains (say, by convincing them you don't have AA) it doesn't matter unless it gets you money.It's like you walk up to a pencil sharpener, pencil in hand, and think, "Everyone expects me to sharpen this pencil, but I'm going to mix it up." Then you whip out your cock and sharpen that instead and yell, "Ha ha, bitches, you never saw that coming!"Well, no, they didn't. But you still have a dull pencil and bleeding dick.
In between the jokery, this is a really good point.
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