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Well obviously $1/$2 is a little different to the $.02/$.05 I play at lol. But at 6 max people's general ranges are much wider? So hands like AJ etc would play here?
Take a deck of cards (still have on of those ancient things?).Sit down and deal yourself out 100 hands six handed face up.Then sit down and deal yourself out 100 hands 10 handed face up.This should answer your question.
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Take a deck of cards (still have on of those ancient things?).Sit down and deal yourself out 100 hands six handed face up.Then sit down and deal yourself out 100 hands 10 handed face up.This should answer your question.
I think playing a hundred hands at a six handed table is a more effective way to do it.But anyway, thanks for answering my questions. :club:
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Don't even attempt to fail me. This is a horrific fold. ZOMG!!! Less than a third of the pot!!!! BETTAR FOLD ME OVERPAIR ON DA SAFAST BOARD EVAR AT 6 MAX!Edit: The amount of people wanting to make a hero fold here makes me want to vomit.
Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if villian tabled AA here. I mean the only hand you can put villian on is AJ or 88-TT which is why i make a ton of money playing AA or a set like villian. If you can't fold an overpair then you have a long way to go.I would fold. But another reason was for your fail was that based on stack sizes i believe this is a push or a fold. Calling and calling/betting is the worst option here. Calling/checking behind could work though.
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Honestly I wouldn't be surprised if villian tabled AA here. I mean the only hand you can put villian on is AJ or 88-TT which is why i make a ton of money playing AA or a set like villian. If you can't fold an overpair then you have a long way to go.I would fold. But another reason was for your fail was that based on stack sizes i believe this is a push or a fold. Calling and calling/betting is the worst option here. Calling/checking behind could work though.
Usually calling down implies a river check.Don't give me that never folding overpairs bullcrap. And I'm aware of stack sizes, which is why I didn't say raise/fold, because there's no room for it. This is not the pot, board, or bet to fold an overpair to. You're advocating making a hero fold, and that's all there is to it.Not to mention the villain is unknown and you're giving him a super large amount of credit. You do realize that most players you run into are bad, right?Oh, we can include:7-7, A-9s float, J-10s, Q-Js, K-Js etc etc etc
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Not to mention the villain is unknown and you're giving him a super large amount of credit. You do realize that most players you run into are bad, right?Oh, we can include:7-7, A-9s float, J-10s, Q-Js, K-Js etc etc etc
Assuming any unknown is bad is a failthat range is atrocious, A-9 raising and calling a strong reraise come on, fail
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I think making a fold your standard move in this situation is a mistake that's exploitable, as was already suggested. If you get a reputation for doing this, people will just start calling your pf re-raises and playing you this way all day. Even if villain does have a set this time, sticking around gives you a tougher image.Also, I agree that a fold gives too much credit to the villain.

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If you are fairly pecemistic about his range based on his line here are some hands that fit:Beating us:JJ - 3 combinations99 - 3 combinationsWe beat:TT - 6 combinations88 - 6 combinationsAJ - 12 combinationsEven if you add in AA and KK as hands that beat us, which I don't believe would take this line anyway, it doesn't matter. EVEN if you drop out TT & 88 there would still be 12 hands that play this line we beat and 18 hands that we don't.Surely that means as long as you are getting at least 3:2 it is correct to call a bet on the turn AND river?

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Assuming any unknown is bad is a failthat range is atrocious, A-9 raising and calling a strong reraise come on, fail
I didn't say it was a solid play. However, you'll see it just as often as you'll see A-A and K-K played this way. That's what a lot of people tend to forget... not all hands within a range are equally within a range.Oh, and the villain hasn't raised at ANY point in this hand, if you want to nit pick.
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I can muck it if I believe I'm 8% to win and the villain is proposing to put half my chips in the pot.
Unless I had strong knowledge of the opponent's tendencies I don't think I could rule out enough of his range to say with 100% certainty that my queens are crushed by either kings, aces, jacks or nines.
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People need to focus on what happened preflop becuase I think that's really the key to everything going on here.An UTG player raised and a player behind them reraised. The villain in the hand coldcalls a raise and a reraise, OOP, with the original UTG raiser still to act. He then check/calls a bet on a totally dry flop and leads an equally harmless looking turn card with a bet that the Hero is never expected to fold to.For everyone saying that the villain can have AJ, I think that's pretty ridiculous. Yeah, I know people are bad, but that's just a disgusting play. When someone coldcalls here, they almost always wind up with a hand that's either AK or 88-JJ type of hands and rarely AA. I think KK probably 4 bets preflop. Yeah, I know if they're gonna coldcall with 88, how is 33 or 44 any different, and the answer is: it's not.I would put my money on the fact that the villain has 99, TT or JJ here and the TT just seems unlikely beucase the line is so weird. Given the action, it's unlikely that Cwik would bet unpaired overcards on the turn again, so TT would likely check and fold to another bet. I really think the whole hand feels way too much like a flopped or even turned set here. I even think that 99 is more likely because a set often raises this flop becuase it's usually their best chance to stack an overpair.If you want to call, I call the turn and fold to a river bet. I think that there's nothing wrong with folding to this turn bet here. Yeah, it looks kind of exploitable, but everything adds up to us being beaten here. The whole sequence of events that happens is so rare that I don't think that dumping QQ here is gonna be too exploitable at all. It really feels like the villain knows he's got a lock on the hand and doesn't want the turn to get checked through, so he makes a small enough bet that you could consider calling with an AK/AQ type of hand, thinking that an overcard might be a win for you. There are just so few hands that make sense for a reasonable player to play this way and you basically only beat 1 of them, so I'm probably letting this hand go.

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Unless I had strong knowledge of the opponent's tendencies I don't think I could rule out enough of his range to say with 100% certainty that my queens are crushed by either kings, aces, jacks or nines.
You don't need to be 100% sure of anyhting. And really, what could his range here be anyway? I think the only hands that we beat that legitimately belong in his range are AK, TT and 88 and the post flop play should eliminate AK and the rest of the play is just bad for 88 or TT.
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People need to focus on what happened preflop becuase I think that's really the key to everything going on here.An UTG player raised and a player behind them reraised. The villain in the hand coldcalls a raise and a reraise, OOP, with the original UTG raiser still to act. He then check/calls a bet on a totally dry flop and leads an equally harmless looking turn card with a bet that the Hero is never expected to fold to.For everyone saying that the villain can have AJ, I think that's pretty ridiculous. Yeah, I know people are bad, but that's just a disgusting play. When someone coldcalls here, they almost always wind up with a hand that's either AK or 88-JJ type of hands and rarely AA. I think KK probably 4 bets preflop. Yeah, I know if they're gonna coldcall with 88, how is 33 or 44 any different, and the answer is: it's not.I would put my money on the fact that the villain has 99, TT or JJ here and the TT just seems unlikely beucase the line is so weird. Given the action, it's unlikely that Cwik would bet unpaired overcards on the turn again, so TT would likely check and fold to another bet. I really think the whole hand feels way too much like a flopped or even turned set here. I even think that 99 is more likely because a set often raises this flop becuase it's usually their best chance to stack an overpair.If you want to call, I call the turn and fold to a river bet. I think that there's nothing wrong with folding to this turn bet here. Yeah, it looks kind of exploitable, but everything adds up to us being beaten here. The whole sequence of events that happens is so rare that I don't think that dumping QQ here is gonna be too exploitable at all. It really feels like the villain knows he's got a lock on the hand and doesn't want the turn to get checked through, so he makes a small enough bet that you could consider calling with an AK/AQ type of hand, thinking that an overcard might be a win for you. There are just so few hands that make sense for a reasonable player to play this way and you basically only beat 1 of them, so I'm probably letting this hand go.
Pretty much spot on. The $40 lead on the turn is waaaayyyy too callable, AND it is just enough to commit us to the hand. The villain is positive he's ahead, and he's filling the pot. If we were sure we were ahead, we'd want to massage this pot in just this way. I'll bet that we find ourselves getting pushed into on the river.
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People need to focus on what happened preflop becuase I think that's really the key to everything going on here.An UTG player raised and a player behind them reraised. The villain in the hand coldcalls a raise and a reraise, OOP, with the original UTG raiser still to act. He then check/calls a bet on a totally dry flop and leads an equally harmless looking turn card with a bet that the Hero is never expected to fold to.For everyone saying that the villain can have AJ, I think that's pretty ridiculous. Yeah, I know people are bad, but that's just a disgusting play. When someone coldcalls here, they almost always wind up with a hand that's either AK or 88-JJ type of hands and rarely AA. I think KK probably 4 bets preflop. Yeah, I know if they're gonna coldcall with 88, how is 33 or 44 any different, and the answer is: it's not.I would put my money on the fact that the villain has 99, TT or JJ here and the TT just seems unlikely beucase the line is so weird. Given the action, it's unlikely that Cwik would bet unpaired overcards on the turn again, so TT would likely check and fold to another bet. I really think the whole hand feels way too much like a flopped or even turned set here. I even think that 99 is more likely because a set often raises this flop becuase it's usually their best chance to stack an overpair.If you want to call, I call the turn and fold to a river bet. I think that there's nothing wrong with folding to this turn bet here. Yeah, it looks kind of exploitable, but everything adds up to us being beaten here. The whole sequence of events that happens is so rare that I don't think that dumping QQ here is gonna be too exploitable at all. It really feels like the villain knows he's got a lock on the hand and doesn't want the turn to get checked through, so he makes a small enough bet that you could consider calling with an AK/AQ type of hand, thinking that an overcard might be a win for you. There are just so few hands that make sense for a reasonable player to play this way and you basically only beat 1 of them, so I'm probably letting this hand go.
I very much agree with your write up, but just want to mention I wouldn't rule out AA/KK here. UTG raise -> UTG+1 reraise -> a 4bet here looks VERY strong, almost always going to be AA/KK sometimes AK/QQ and very rarely a bluff. For this reason I think a lot of players will flat call to conceal the strength of their hand. Maybe 50/50 raise to call.
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I very much agree with your write up, but just want to mention I wouldn't rule out AA/KK here. UTG raise -> UTG+1 reraise -> a 4bet here looks VERY strong, almost always going to be AA/KK sometimes AK/QQ and very rarely a bluff. For this reason I think a lot of players will flat call to conceal the strength of their hand. Maybe 50/50 raise to call.
Right. The hands we beat don't give us this PF action. Only AK. Only AK. We're behind 80% of the villain's range here.
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I very much agree with your write up, but just want to mention I wouldn't rule out AA/KK here. UTG raise -> UTG+1 reraise -> a 4bet here looks VERY strong, almost always going to be AA/KK sometimes AK/QQ and very rarely a bluff. For this reason I think a lot of players will flat call to conceal the strength of their hand. Maybe 50/50 raise to call.
bingo
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I very much agree with your write up, but just want to mention I wouldn't rule out AA/KK here. UTG raise -> UTG+1 reraise -> a 4bet here looks VERY strong, almost always going to be AA/KK sometimes AK/QQ and very rarely a bluff. For this reason I think a lot of players will flat call to conceal the strength of their hand. Maybe 50/50 raise to call.
Ok, well, not ruling out AA and KK here doesn't help us since we can't beat those anyway. That kind of just reinforces my points that we really can't beat any reasonable hand that he'd play like this.I think both AA and KK are possibilities, but I just think that of the 2, KK is less likely.
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Is there a (SW) to accompany this post or are you serious?
We're in a 100bb game.The only more favorable boards we don't have a set on are like 2-2-6-9 rainbow... not too many of themIf you fold here, honestly, you're saying to wait to hit a set with pairs unless you have AA/KK, because the bet presented here is like the weakest bet possible, and the people advocating folding I know to be habitual C-bettors. So if you three bet them preflop, and c-bet, but fold to any turn bet... just think about it here... you're creating a big pot you're not playing without a set, so you may as well just keep the pot small and play them passively, because all you're looking to do with the three bet and c-bet is pick up the pot... and you're risking a lot more of your own chips in relation to what you can win by taking this line.As far as the hand goes...I'm not disagreeing that people would play set hands or A-A / K-K this way, or that it's probably the best way to approach their hand if that's what they're holding. It just drives me bonkers to no only assume an unknown is holding a monster, but to assume he plays it perfectly. It's a rare enough occurrence that we're going to run into a brick wall with Q-Q at six max on a favorable board, but to have it played well by an unknown? Surely you don't think the majority of players are awesome players... and if you do then I guess that's why we don't see eye to eye. I mean it seems when you guys approach hands you put yourselves in the villain's shoes and are blind to anything you wouldn't play in such a manner... but I digress... the point is, when the combination of cards a villain can be holding aren't in huge disporpotions favoring one move over the other, you've really got to look at how often a player will play those hands in such a manner... and I just don't see the majority of players playing hands that beat us this way, but I do see the majority of players being capable of making blocking bets, and being capable of getting involved preflop with a marginal holding, especially since the villain has almost every right to believe that UTG is coming along for the ride in this preflop situation, and that this isn't a full ring game.Wow that was a long post... it'll prolly be ignored especially since *I* posted it lmfao.
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We're in a 100bb game.The only more favorable boards we don't have a set on are like 2-2-6-9 rainbow... not too many of themIf you fold here, honestly, you're saying to wait to hit a set with pairs unless you have AA/KK, because the bet presented here is like the weakest bet possible, and the people advocating folding I know to be habitual C-bettors. So if you three bet them preflop, and c-bet, but fold to any turn bet... just think about it here... you're creating a big pot you're not playing without a set, so you may as well just keep the pot small and play them passively, because all you're looking to do with the three bet and c-bet is pick up the pot... and you're risking a lot more of your own chips in relation to what you can win by taking this line.As far as the hand goes...I'm not disagreeing that people would play set hands or A-A / K-K this way, or that it's probably the best way to approach their hand if that's what they're holding. It just drives me bonkers to no only assume an unknown is holding a monster, but to assume he plays it perfectly. It's a rare enough occurrence that we're going to run into a brick wall with Q-Q at six max on a favorable board, but to have it played well by an unknown? Surely you don't think the majority of players are awesome players... and if you do then I guess that's why we don't see eye to eye. I mean it seems when you guys approach hands you put yourselves in the villain's shoes and are blind to anything you wouldn't play in such a manner... but I digress... the point is, when the combination of cards a villain can be holding aren't in huge disporpotions favoring one move over the other, you've really got to look at how often a player will play those hands in such a manner... and I just don't see the majority of players playing hands that beat us this way, but I do see the majority of players being capable of making blocking bets, and being capable of getting involved preflop with a marginal holding, especially since the villain has almost every right to believe that UTG is coming along for the ride in this preflop situation, and that this isn't a full ring game.Wow that was a long post... it'll prolly be ignored especially since *I* posted it lmfao.
Just because this is 6 max, doesn't mean that you can't run into monsters.Just because the board is fairly harmless looking, doesn't mean that it's VERY likely that we're beatenThe small bet doesn't make much of a difference if we're very certain that we're losing and we don't have the odds to draw outI am not looking at the hand how I would play it because honestly, I'm probably folding most of my hands here since I figure that with TT or 99 or something, it's probably a set mining operation and UTG could still repop it and I'd just be burning money. As for him being an unknown, I'm not trying to give too much credit or too little, since that's really the only way to go about it. I chose a reasonable range for someone to play preflop with the action provided. You gotta admit, there just aren't that many hands that he can have here and there are even fewer that we can beat.This isn't being afraid to play QQ strongly. It's not like we're waiting for the perfect board or a set. This isn't seeing monsters that aren't there. Yeah, the board doesn't look scary, but when it meets up with his narrow range of hands, we're pretty crushed by it. I'm all for aggressive play and everything, but I don't think that the small bet means that we HAVE to call it or even continue past this point. All of the signs seem to add up to tell us that we're beaten here.
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you've really got to look at how often a player will play those hands in such a manner... and I just don't see the majority of players playing hands that beat us this way, but I do see the majority of players being capable of making blocking bets, and being capable of getting involved preflop with a marginal holding, especially since the villain has almost every right to believe that UTG is coming along for the ride in this preflop situation, and that this isn't a full ring game.
I think the exact opposite actually, that most players DO NOT make blocking bets and that they certainly don't make them in weird spots like this in massive reraised pots on the turn with only 1PSB left. I mean, do you really think he's trying to slow you down with this bet? Do you really think he's folding to a shove here? It just feels like he is pretty certain he's got the best hand and is trying to make sure the chips go in.
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