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Betting And Raising The Limit !


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Is that true? If so, could you explain a little more please? Because it seems to me if the terms of the arrangement were fraudulent that would nullify the "contract".
So does this mean that every hustler who has made money off of negotiating a favorable handicap should pay their money back? Most of the money made off of a golf bet is made before shot off the first tee, and the ones that know the ins and outs of how to negotiate strokes can talk themselves into having a considerable edge.
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Pulled this off a Hendon Mob forum... I couldn't agree more.For anyone who likes to read about proposition bets then check out Amarillo Slim's 'In a World Full of Fat Poeple'.IMO if the above is true then Ivey has lost out in the long term here though I don't think it's up to him to be honest about how much he's improved. Once you make a bad bet you just have to pay up and put it down to experience. The responsibility is on you to make sure you have the necessary information before you put up your money. IMO not paying up is worse than deceiving opponents about your true playing ability. In the same way that if I lose money to a guy in a pub over a game of pool, I'd be wrong not to pay up even if I subsequently learned he was a World Champion and not the 'hobby player' he said he was. I'd feel disgusted at myself for being a mug but I'd pay up all the same as I'd feel worse not honouring my word.It's all very well playing for high stakes but if you can't afford to lose you shouldn't play. If you get taken for a ride you should PAY UP and may be make a more sensible bet next time. I can't stand people who make bets and try to avoid paying up!!!!

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I think they should just come to some kind of middle ground. Maybe only pay half of the amount owed(or some other reasonable amount), or agree to nullify the whole thing.
I disagree. It's like in Daniels blog. They kept playing hoping to get even, or win money.....this also implies that whay Phil told Daniel about winning with 6's and 7's is true, because if Phil was playing the kind of incredible golf that Goodwin implies they never would have finished the round.
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One other thing: Phil told me they played terrible, well below their average. They didn't make even one 10 foot putt, and Phil was winning holes with 6's and 7's. When you play worse than your average and the other guy putts like a machine, you are supposed to lose.
Very true...... anyone see that Zack Johnson won the masters, beating Tiger by 2 shots
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I agree to a certain extent. If your gonna be betting this kind of money, you better be knowing damn well what your doing and every possible detail. If it was me, I would have done more investigating into Phil's handicap, stuff like that.Say for example it was a card game. I would make sure that there were witnesses, a neutral dealer, some sort of rules person, held in a public venue, all to ensure that I received a fair game.Cheating to me would in a sense nullify the bet, but then again I keep thinking that if you risk that much money and dont do your homework and make sure your getting a fair deal, then your just a big idiot and you deserve to lose

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anyways, hopefully they (parties involved) use the groundbreaking technology afforded to us human beings (a phone) and settle this matter. As for me, time to go destroy some UB micros!
In order for the whole phone thing to work, one person has to dial it, but then it's the reponsibility of the other party to pick up said phone. They've discussed this at length and still they've shown no desire to pay. There is absolutely no question about it. They lost the money, admit to losing the money, and know full well that they owe the full amount. Not half, not a settlement, all of it. How can you justify playing 72 holes in two days, upping the stakes repeatedly, and then after the fact saying that you shouldn't have to pay?
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In order for the whole phone thing to work, one person has to dial it, but then it's the reponsibility of the other party to pick up said phone. They've discussed this at length and still they've shown no desire to pay.There is absolutely no question about it. They lost the money, admit to losing the money, and know full well that they owe the full amount. Not half, not a settlement, all of it. How can you justify playing 72 holes in two days, upping the stakes repeatedly, and then after the fact saying that you shouldn't have to pay?
ah, so one party is not falling for the phone a friend trick! I just assumed that it was a forum battle (my bad). If they are in admission than ya pay up and shut up. There is no justification if this is how it rolled. The End
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How can you justify playing 72 holes in two days, upping the stakes repeatedly, and then after the fact saying that you shouldn't have to pay?
That being the case they should PAY IT ALL!
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What cracks sometimes is the rude tone of some of you critics. Right or wrong, controversial or not, intelligent or absurd....IT'S DANIELS BLOG. If you don't like it or are so offended by it ... don't read it.Debate, discuss, dissagree, what ever. It's all good suff imo. But the tone above Irish...man dude.Would you have the stones to say that to Daniels face?
um I think ou quoted the wrong guy. I agree with you 100% and was mocking the person whom I quoted.
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I think regardless I would end up just paying it even if I felt that I was cheated simply because I wouldn't want to be known in the world of gambling/sports betting etc to be someone who didnt pay up. If I had the kind of money to be betting, 1.8m would be worth my reputation.I would just learn next time to stay away from the other party.

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In order for the whole phone thing to work, one person has to dial it, but then it's the reponsibility of the other party to pick up said phone. They've discussed this at length and still they've shown no desire to pay. There is absolutely no question about it. They lost the money, admit to losing the money, and know full well that they owe the full amount. Not half, not a settlement, all of it. How can you justify playing 72 holes in two days, upping the stakes repeatedly, and then after the fact saying that you shouldn't have to pay?
I'm always one to take Daniel to task for things he writes that I disagree with, but I gotta say I'm 100% with him on this one. You lose, you pay. Crying is optional, paying what you owe isn't.
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um I think ou quoted the wrong guy. I agree with you 100% and was mocking the person whom I quoted.
oops. sorry man.It was that "WHAT THE "F" ARE YOU DOING?!!" yelling redneck daddy remark that just cracked me up.This topic is GREAT debate imo, as it sheds light on the inner working intricacies of these types of high stakes wagers.Facinating stuff. :club:
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Daniel - were you asked to repeat the facts or to make your own judgement based on what you admit is only one side of the story?Repeating the facts as you have been told them from a person involved, and even repeating that person's take on the situation is admirable and something any good friend would do. However I believe that, for all your good intentions, by making a public judgement of the situation and levelling accusations at a party who's version of events you have not heard is a little irresponsible.You have a wide audience, and are well respected both inside and outisde of the poker world. People listen to you. With the respect you receive comes an obligation to be fair - both to your friends and to those who could have been misunderstood. If you were just a 2-bit player with a blog audience of 1 then no big deal. But you're not. People who do not know the facts cannot fail to be influenced by your writings.My personal opinion is that this has been the mother of all misunderstandings. But I'm pretty sure that I have never once seen any form of confession by 'Mar' (as you so adroitly put it) stating that he owed the money / had no intention to pay etc. That is my opinion, and I could be wrong. I don't have a blog audience so it doesn't really matter if I am right or wrong.Please consider a modification to your blog - remove your own judgements for the time being until you are in full posession of all the facts and until someone has asked you to make a judgement.I'm not trying to rob you of your right to free speech, far from it. But what about the rights of the other parties to be heard before judgement is made?Thanks - and best of luck at the tables.R.

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If this was the first time these guys ever played then you can say he cheated. But they play before and Ivey lost money and paid in full. The fact is they made a game thinking they where going to take Ivey for some cash. If they would have won 1.8 Mill if Ivey could not cover the spot you think they would have said don't worry about paying us the spot wasn't fair? No they would want to get paid then change the spot. A good gambler pays even when he gets hustled a hustler never pays even when he loses on a fair bet.

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Daniel - were you asked to repeat the facts or to make your own judgement based on what you admit is only one side of the story?Repeating the facts as you have been told them from a person involved, and even repeating that person's take on the situation is admirable and something any good friend would do. However I believe that, for all your good intentions, by making a public judgement of the situation and levelling accusations at a party who's version of events you have not heard is a little irresponsible.You have a wide audience, and are well respected both inside and outisde of the poker world. People listen to you. With the respect you receive comes an obligation to be fair - both to your friends and to those who could have been misunderstood. If you were just a 2-bit player with a blog audience of 1 then no big deal. But you're not. People who do not know the facts cannot fail to be influenced by your writings.My personal opinion is that this has been the mother of all misunderstandings. But I'm pretty sure that I have never once seen any form of confession by 'Mar' (as you so adroitly put it) stating that he owed the money / had no intention to pay etc. That is my opinion, and I could be wrong. I don't have a blog audience so it doesn't really matter if I am right or wrong.Please consider a modification to your blog - remove your own judgements for the time being until you are in full posession of all the facts and until someone has asked you to make a judgement.I'm not trying to rob you of your right to free speech, far from it. But what about the rights of the other parties to be heard before judgement is made?Thanks - and best of luck at the tables.R.
A well written post. However, they have been heard from and presented their side of the story in the blog post written by Marc. The post is full of holes IMO, and even if what they said was accurate (I don't beleive it to be) it would have no bearing on whether they lost the money and should pay in full. What justification could they have for not even paying the portion that they won from Phil, which is approximately $220,000? I have heard thier side of the story, but frankly, I don't think they have a leg to stand on here. Whether they feel like they got hustled or not, they gambled, lost... and now need to pay.
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I found this laughable the first time I read about it. A bet is a bet. The appropriate thing that should have been done all along is reach a settlement with Ivey. Pay something they could afford to pay. If Phil feels like they should pay the entire thing, then that is his right, and they should work out some terms. I think I would have made the phone call to Eric Lindgren before I decided to play Phil for money, just to find out how he has been playing.

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A well written post. However, they have been heard from and presented their side of the story in the blog post written by Marc. The post is full of holes IMO, and even if what they said was accurate (I don't beleive it to be) it would have no bearing on whether they lost the money and should pay in full. What justification could they have for not even paying the portion that they won from Phil, which is approximately $220,000? I have heard thier side of the story, but frankly, I don't think they have a leg to stand on here. Whether they feel like they got hustled or not, they gambled, lost... and now need to pay.
I dont think DN is arguing about confessions or cheating or anything of the sorts.I think he is saying that they made a bet, they lost, and regardless they should pay up.
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Oh, no, Phil Ivey has lost a couple thousand dickriders and the poker "In crowd" has reached for the panic button.I wouldn't bet Phil at my best game for a dollar. It's ignorant to put money up to that man.

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And have to take down my shrine around my computer? Dedicated to DN? OVER my dead body! Its taken years to perfect it. I might have to tho, since DN is PI's puppet. I always pick the wrong blogs to worship......time to burn some poker chip incense and hope this is all a horrible nightmare.

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Oh, no, Phil Ivey has lost a couple thousand dickriders and the poker "In crowd" has reached for the panic button.I wouldn't bet Phil at my best game for a dollar. It's ignorant to put money up to that man.
Not even your best xbox 360 game. I think I could beat his *** at Tiger Woods
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And have to take down my shrine around my computer? Dedicated to DN? OVER my dead body! Its taken years to perfect it. I might have to tho, since DN is PI's puppet. I always pick the wrong blogs to worship......time to burn some poker chip incense and hope this is all a horrible nightmare.
Seek counseling, then move to England to enjoy some crumpets.Only viable solution I can think of
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