Two Questions

[Moneyball16 0]

Thanks, I appreciate any bits you have time for. Maybe it'll be easier if I tell you what I know. I raise big pairs to try and get the limpers out who are gonna suck me out on the river with a gutshot straight draw or smaller pairs who are looking to make trips. I did read that in books, but I also got sucked out on enough in these situations when I started that I always raise now, except, I sometimes don't raise with AA at micro limits in late position because they just won't fold. I can raise it from early position in micro, because they will then not come in at all. (This is like .10/25 ) I also understand that being last to act has advantages. On the tables I used to play, it was standard check-check-check, let's all see if anyone hits anything poker. So, anyone who bets at the pot could take it. That's how I learned to bluff a little. If they didn't fold, I'd check-raise the turn and that usually did it. If it didn't, then I knew they had an actual hand. That doesn't work at these higher limits, thoguh, which is why I developed the new PGP. I used to play lots of suited connectors and stuff, have more fun, make enough money to build a bankroll. But what I don't get is this:

Even though you maye not be able to get anyone out with AA in lp(which may or may not be true based on how tight the blinds are) there is still an even bigger reason that you have to raise, it has too much value. When your in lp after a bunch of limpers you should be raising quite a few hands just because they have too much value. Lots of pairs, suited broadways and suited aces should be raised.I also wouldnt try too many complete bluffs. Keep to semi bluffing and occasionally picking on people you know can lay down a hand.

[Moneyball16 0]

Why? I mean, I understand he might just be trying to steal the blinds, but are you talking statistically? Like, at this point it's like playing a four-handed game? I also know enough to know when that super-tight "pro" who has been playing three tables and is steadily working his way into the hundreds at all of them raises prefllop, I don't want to three bet his Aces. (And I understand you have a life, so, if you get around to an answer in a few days, it's OK. I'm not going anywhere. ) And I always want honesty, if it sucks, it does. It's why I asked.

Whenever someone raises in front of you you should put them on a range of hands based on their postiton and style and reraise them if you believe you have an edge on them based on your hand, posititon, and your ability to outplay them after the flop. One program that helped me find proper preflop standards is pokerstove. I would recommend this to anyone. You can find it at pokerstove.com if you want it.Back to the TT hands against a co open with TT on the button it becomes an eays 3-bet just because it will win too often against the kinds of hands he could be raising preflop. for this same reason TT may be a fold against someone UTG who would only raise JJ+ and AK.

[Zach6668 513]

Thanks, I appreciate any bits you have time for. Maybe it'll be easier if I tell you what I know. I raise big pairs to try and get the limpers out who are gonna suck me out on the river with a gutshot straight draw or smaller pairs who are looking to make trips. I did read that in books, but I also got sucked out on enough in these situations when I started that I always raise now, except, I sometimes don't raise with AA at micro limits in late position because they just won't fold. I can raise it from early position in micro, because they will then not come in at all. (This is like .10/25 ) I also understand that being last to act has advantages. On the tables I used to play, it was standard check-check-check, let's all see if anyone hits anything poker. So, anyone who bets at the pot could take it. That's how I learned to bluff a little. If they didn't fold, I'd check-raise the turn and that usually did it. If it didn't, then I knew they had an actual hand. That doesn't work at these higher limits, thoguh, which is why I developed the new PGP. I used to play lots of suited connectors and stuff, have more fun, make enough money to build a bankroll. But what I don't get is this: If you are button, and it folds to the CO who raises, your TT is almost always the best hand, so 3-betting is without a doubt the best play, for example.Why? I mean, I understand he might just be trying to steal the blinds, but are you talking statistically? Like, at this point it's like playing a four-handed game? I also know enough to know when that super-tight "pro" who has been playing three tables and is steadily working his way into the hundreds at all of them raises prefllop, I don't want to three bet his Aces. (And I understand you have a life, so, if you get around to an answer in a few days, it's OK. I'm not going anywhere. ) And I always want honesty, if it sucks, it does. It's why I asked.

Ok, let me give this a shot.A lot of this may go over your head at first, but trust me, if you figure out a way to understand it and get your head wrapped around it, it will improve your game exponentially.1) In limit, you aren't raising hands like AA, KK, QQ, AK, with the goal of folding people. As a matter of fact, you want these calls. If you are in the BB with AA, and every single person at the table limps to you, it's always correct to raise with AA there. You aren't going to get a single person to fold, but your hand is way better than any of their hands. That raise you put in gets 9 more SB in the pot from other players. With AA vs 9 random hands, you are going to win the pot roughly 30% of the time. Now, I know it sucks to get aces cracked, etc, but no matter what the results are for that particular hand, when you put money in with an equity edge (your 30% vs each of the random hand's 7.8%) you make money in the long run. Your 30% equity means that when you get 9 more SB in the pot preflop, you win an extra 30% of those, aka 2.7 SB that you wouldn't have won if you just limped along. Furthermore, even JJ has 17% equity in this scenario, which is almost twice as much as the random hands, so it's a must raise as well. This brings me to my next point.2) In limit (and all poker, really), your goal is not to win the most pots. Your goal is to win the most money. You do this by maximizing your expected value. In the example above, your raise from the BB has an expected value of +2.7 SBs. A check would have an EV of 0 SBs. What you do, is evaluate the expected values of each option at a decision and pick the one with the higher value. Now, obviously we don't have time to calculate everything at the table, but after a while it becomes easy to just spot the right decision. Sometimes that results in losing bigger pots, or losing some pots, but overall, your EV was maximized. It's easier to explain this one with an NL example. Say you have AA and you know the other player is on a flush draw after the turn. He's going to hit 20% of the time (roughly). You have two options, go all in, in which case he folds, and you win nothing more, or bet the size of the pot, which he will call. When he folds, you win the whole pot, but when he calls, you win the whole pot, PLUS the bet he calls on the turn when he misses his flush the 80% of the time. 20% of the time, of course, you lose the whole pot. Either way, you win more money by having him call a bet that he isn't getting proper odds on, even if you lose the pot 20% of the time, than you do by forcing him to fold his hand every time, even though you win the pot 100% of the time.3) This is similar to the above two, but a bit of an extension. When you have the best hand, you WANT calls on the flop and turn with worse hands. Even if they are drawing live. That's the only way you make money. Sure, they can suckout now and again, but just like in point (2), you make more money by getting calls then everyone folding all of the time, even though you lose some pots.4) Specifically now, with respect to the TT hand. If the CO in my hypothetical hand is halfway decent, he's going to be opening with a wide range of hands when folded to in late position. Like you said, it's basically a 4 handed game at that point. Say he raises 25% of his hands when it's folded to him in the CO, TT has about 61% equity against his range, meaning we want to get some money in the pot. Also, in this case, with a hand like TT, it's pretty vulnerable, so it's actually a good thing for the blinds to fold hands like QJ, A9, etc. Also, it really helps to have the lead in the hand, and using position to our advantage is a great way to make money.Now, 1-3 are all hard concepts to get your head wrapped around when you are new to poker theory, but once you get it, you'll get it.If you have any more questions, please don't hesitate to ask.- Zach

[11 to 1 0]

Even though you maye not be able to get anyone out with AA in lp(which may or may not be true based on how tight the blinds are) there is still an even bigger reason that you have to raise, it has too much value. When your in lp after a bunch of limpers you should be raising quite a few hands just because they have too much value. Lots of pairs, suited broadways and suited aces should be raised.I also wouldnt try too many complete bluffs. Keep to semi bluffing and occasionally picking on people you know can lay down a hand.

I agree and I don't do a lot of complete bluffs, I don't have the nerve, really. Once in a while, like yesterday when some guy was obviously trying to steal my blind and I was sure he has as much squat as I had, he folded when I check-raised the turn. But I was new to the table and willing to lose a couple bucks just saying "Not afraid to call if you raise" - or - ah, he just pi**ed me off. Bad reason to bet, I guess. Now, about those Aces... what I meant, and didn't explain very well is that when in a game where there are like three-four callers in front of me and I'm in late position, I didn't usually raise because maybe one of them will fold, often none and there was often another caller behind me. This was in micro limits, they just don't care about putting in another dime. But when there are five-six players in the pot, well, the chances of the Aces winning diminishes quite a lot so I like to see a flop before I bet. But then I always bet or raised, it's like - delayed pf raising sort of. I guess it sounds stupid, but it seemed to work and I got sucked out on less and got paid off more. Micro players, in my experience, really like folding on the flop, so whoever stayed in had hit the flop somehow and I had some idea what their cards were. Yiou know, I'm talking .5/.10 or maybe .10/.25 here. Now things are different. Now I am raising preflop. (I just did about a half hour ago, and everyone is folding and I'm winning the blinds with AA. This happened twice in one revolution. Which is better than losing, I guess but now I'm thinking of going back to slow-playing Aces preflop, especially from early position until there is some money in the pot at least. But then some guy is going to flop a straight draw and.... So, it's clear I am clueless. So, I saw Zach left a long post, let's see if between the two of you I can get that clue....

[Zach6668 513]

Now, about those Aces... what I meant, and didn't explain very well is that when in a game where there are like three-four callers in front of me and I'm in late position, I didn't usually raise because maybe one of them will fold, often none and there was often another caller behind me. This was in micro limits, they just don't care about putting in another dime. But when there are five-six players in the pot, well, the chances of the Aces winning diminishes quite a lot so I like to see a flop before I bet. But then I always bet or raised, it's like - delayed pf raising sort of. I guess it sounds stupid, but it seemed to work and I got sucked out on less and got paid off more. Micro players, in my experience, really like folding on the flop, so whoever stayed in had hit the flop somehow and I had some idea what their cards were. Yiou know, I'm talking .5/.10 or maybe .10/.25 here.

Not only is it stupid, but it's also wrong. (Just read my post, you'll get it soon enough)

Now things are different. Now I am raising preflop. (I just did about a half hour ago, and everyone is folding and I'm winning the blinds with AA. This happened twice in one revolution. Which is better than losing, I guess but now I'm thinking of going back to slow-playing Aces preflop, especially from early position until there is some money in the pot at least. But then some guy is going to flop a straight draw and.... So, it's clear I am clueless. So, I saw Zach left a long post, let's see if between the two of you I can get that clue....

Winning the blinds is NOT better than losing a pot with AA.Nonetheless, if there's ONE rule you should stick to hard and fast when you are coming up, it's raise AA preflop EVERY SINGLE TIME, 3-bet it, 4-bet it, EVERY TIME. Put as much money in the pot as you can before the flop.

[11 to 1 0]

4) Specifically now, with respect to the TT hand. If the CO in my hypothetical hand is halfway decent, he's going to be opening with a wide range of hands when folded to in late position. Like you said, it's basically a 4 handed game at that point. Say he raises 25% of his hands when it's folded to him in the CO, TT has about 61% equity against his range, meaning we want to get some money in the pot. Also, in this case, with a hand like TT, it's pretty vulnerable, so it's actually a good thing for the blinds to fold hands like QJ, A9, etc. Also, it really helps to have the lead in the hand, and using position to our advantage is a great way to make money.Now, 1-3 are all hard concepts to get your head wrapped around when you are new to poker theory, but once you get it, you'll get it.- Zach

Let me start with this because you are right, the first three will take a few re-reads. So, part of the reason my PGP sucks is because I am NOT opening with a wide range of hands when folded to in the CO, right? Must be esp or something because I was just playing before and thinking about how you said my plan sucked and I needed to think about position. Some guy in the CO raised me off my KTos, which I would have limped with in the SB normally, and, of course, the KT came on the flop. I knew he was just looking for the blinds, but I was following my Plan. The one that sucks. I decided the next time they folded to me when I was the CO, I'd raise with anything I'd raise with 4-handed. Then I thought, well, there are three players here, at least one of them probably has crap, maybe two, so I'll raise with whatever I'd raise with heads up, which is any face card and anything eight or better. It was Q8os, so what the hell, gotta try stuff. Two folds, the BB calls, the flop comes KQx, he checked, I bet, he folded.OK, so I was tilty when I did this and just got lucky, but raising in the CO is something I just haven't done. Let's start with that, because I am the worst at math than anyone you have ever met. I got a bunch of books here with starting hands, but you got a rule of thumb kinda thing for it? Meanwhile, I shall peruse this mysterious EV.....

[11 to 1 0]

Not only is it stupid, but it's also wrong. (Just read my post, you'll get it soon enough)Winning the blinds is NOT better than losing a pot with AA.Nonetheless, if there's ONE rule you should stick to hard and fast when you are coming up, it's raise AA preflop EVERY SINGLE TIME, 3-bet it, 4-bet it, EVERY TIME. Put as much money in the pot as you can before the flop.

ZA-ACH! I AM raising preflop, they all folded. Twice. I can't make 'em call me. I swear to the Poker Goddess to always ram and jam as much as possible preflop with Aces. But I am keeping track and thinking I am going to be winning only blinds a lot. (Why is winning blinds not better than losing?)

[Zach6668 513]

Let me start with this because you are right, the first three will take a few re-reads. So, part of the reason my PGP sucks is because I am NOT opening with a wide range of hands when folded to in the CO, right? Must be esp or something because I was just playing before and thinking about how you said my plan sucked and I needed to think about position. Some guy in the CO raised me off my KTos, which I would have limped with in the SB normally, and, of course, the KT came on the flop. I knew he was just looking for the blinds, but I was following my Plan. The one that sucks. I decided the next time they folded to me when I was the CO, I'd raise with anything I'd raise with 4-handed. Then I thought, well, there are three players here, at least one of them probably has crap, maybe two, so I'll raise with whatever I'd raise with heads up, which is any face card and anything eight or better. It was Q8os, so what the hell, gotta try stuff. Two folds, the BB calls, the flop comes KQx, he checked, I bet, he folded.OK, so I was tilty when I did this and just got lucky, but raising in the CO is something I just haven't done. Let's start with that, because I am the worst at math than anyone you have ever met. I got a bunch of books here with starting hands, but you got a rule of thumb kinda thing for it? Meanwhile, I shall peruse this mysterious EV.....

Q8o is probably a pretty loose raise there, but you get the main idea. Most of the time, if you get called, they will miss the flop and just check/fold.My range from CO if I'm folded to is like A2s+, A2o+, K7s+, K9o+, Q9s+, QTo+, JTs, JTo, 22+.It grows a bit from the button, and shrinks a bit from MP3, and gets tighter as you get closer to EP.Specifcially, that KTo hand, sometimes you can even 3-bet that out of the blinds, but usually it's a decent fold. Depends on the raiser.What I'd really like you to do, is next time you see a hand like that, where you think you could have played differently, please take the hand history, take it to the converter, fix it up nice, and post it in the Micro Limit forum so we can see the hand. Don't include results, but give your reads if you have any, PT numbers if you knew them at the time, etc. PLEASE do this with as many hands as possible. Any hand that makes you go "hmmmm". AND, even some hands that you would consider that you played standard. I'm sure there's going to be some small things here and there that we will pick up on and let you know.The thing is, it's next to impossible for you to learn the game in just a thread like this. Basically, what I'm saying is take what's in this thread already, and leave it at that, and make a new thread for each hand you think is interesting, or you think you misplayed, or you think you played well, etc. Post 2 million hands if you want, we're here to help. I think that'll help you out a lot more than this thread will, given where you are in the learning curve.- Zach

[Zach6668 513]

ZA-ACH! I AM raising preflop, they all folded. Twice. I can't make 'em call me. I swear to the Poker Goddess to always ram and jam as much as possible preflop with Aces. But I am keeping track and thinking I am going to be winning only blinds a lot. (Why is winning blinds not better than losing?)

Sometimes you will win the blinds, that's ok. But most of the time, you'll get calls by worse hands, and that's where you make your money.The reason why, with AA, winning the blinds sucks is because you make more money longterm vs someone who calls preflop with a worse hand, and catches a pair or a weak draw on the flop, and pays you off. Sometimes you lose those hands on the river, or turn, but overall, you make more money. If that was untrue, why wouldn't we just open shove every time we got AA in NL? Right? You want action. That doesn't mean winning the blinds with AA is the end of the world, it's certainly not bad, and you definitely got the most you could out of that hand, since no one had anything worth a call, but it certainly doesn't mean you should slowplay AA to get action. Micro limit players love to call, so give them the chance by raising with AA every time.- ZachPS - POST HANDS!

[Abbaddabba 0]

First, I am reading Ace on the River and Barry Greenstein says his win rate per session when he was playing almost all ring games was over 75% for NL and about 58% for Limit.58%? Is this about what you all do? I'm pretty newbie so I don't know what a reasonable expectation of per session is. I don't even think in those terms, but it seems pretty low to me - OTOH...

It depends completely on how long your sessions are, how good you are, and what compels you to end the session.

[11 to 1 0]

PS - POST HANDS!

I did, I did! It took me a while to figure out the programs and stuff. Next time I'll put them in micro. Don't be shy about critiquing the way I present them, either. Don't show the result? Ok, next time. I got like 40 hands to post and not that much time, but I'll keep putting them up piecemeal if you'll keep reading them.

[Zach6668 513]

I did, I did! It took me a while to figure out the programs and stuff. Next time I'll put them in micro. Don't be shy about critiquing the way I present them, either. Don't show the result? Ok, next time. I got like 40 hands to post and not that much time, but I'll keep putting them up piecemeal if you'll keep reading them.

Post as many as you want, as fast as you want. Please!:DBtw, if you do something wrong in your posts, in terms of format, I'll fix it... once...

[11 to 1 0]

Q8o is probably a pretty loose raise there, but you get the main idea. Most of the time, if you get called, they will miss the flop and just check/fold.My range from CO if I'm folded to is like A2s+, A2o+, K7s+, K9o+, Q9s+, QTo+, JTs, JTo, 22+.- Zach

Whoa. All the hands I'd like to play but folded with my gritty determined discipline have found a home! Wait a second. Is this why you want aggressive players to your right? Because they will play back at you and passive players on the left.......this could be fun

[Actuary 3]

3) This is similar to the above two, but a bit of an extension. When you have the best hand, you WANT calls on the flop and turn with worse hands. Even if they are drawing live. That's the only way you make money. Sure, they can suckout now and again, but just like in point (2), you make more money by getting calls then everyone folding all of the time, even though you lose some pots.As you know Zach, you actually WANT folds from hands drawing live that would be calling CORRECTLY.the thing is though, you want them to pay to take the pot 20% of the timeEven pf if there are 9 limpers to us in the BB, we'd like ALL folds when we raise4.5 BB's for no risk, is like 13 BB's when we are 30% to win against 9 others.And we aren't losing additional bets on later streets.Otherwise, I agree with what you are saying.

[Zach6668 513]

3) This is similar to the above two, but a bit of an extension. When you have the best hand, you WANT calls on the flop and turn with worse hands. Even if they are drawing live. That's the only way you make money. Sure, they can suckout now and again, but just like in point (2), you make more money by getting calls then everyone folding all of the time, even though you lose some pots.As you know Zach, you actually WANT folds from hands drawing live that would be calling CORRECTLY.the thing is though, you want them to pay to take the pot 20% of the timeEven pf if there are 9 limpers to us in the BB, we'd like ALL folds4.5 BB's for no risk, is like 13 BB's when we are 30% to win against 9 others.And we aren't losing additional bets on later streets.Otherwise, I agree with what you are saying.

Well ya, in a vacuum.That obv would never happen, so what I'm saying is 9 calls is better than you checking.True on the wanting folds from people drawing and getting the odds though.I should have stated that our main goal is to make less mistakes then our opponents. Ie, them folding while getting correct odds, like calling getting wrong odds, are their mistakes we can try to force.I hope 11-1 is taking notes.

[11 to 1 0]

I hope 11-1 is taking notes.

Oh yes. About the fewer mistakes: I really dig that poker tracker. I just played back all my recent big losing hands, over and over to see at every stage, where I made the wrong, or less optimal at any rate, decisions. It was great. You know, when you have AK and raise and some guy plays back at you with K4os and the board comes KK84T, well, not that much you can do and you just take a big loss, I guess. But I found a whole slew of things I wasn't looking at at all, and I did, indeed, take notes. I have them pinned all around my screen on stickys so I don't forget. Including Zach's suggestions for good blind-stealing hands to raise with.I am also reading all the posts over and over, comparing what everyone says and studying Zach's generouis explanation of EV for Dummies. BTW, Zach, I checked all my AA and I have always raised with them since I moved up from the PStars micro boards. I also decided I disagree with you, and that for me, my "delayed raise" strategy with AA and a few other big hands is not stupid at all. It worked like a charm at .5/.10 and .10/.25. The reason it worked is the same as the reason I won that KK hand I posted that looked like I played rather badly, because I understood the players. Thing is, now I don't. These new players are a mystery to me and now, I think, I must evolve into more of an odds/EV/position and so forth player. At least online, and this has all been great. I may go back and just read a lot of the old threads where you all have commented for a while. Meanwhile, I am playing back the hands of the other players, especially the winning ones and the ones I run into a lot. An amazing tool.

[finztotheleft 0]

Hi 11 to 1,I'm a micro limit player too. I've made it up as far as 2/4, but just demoted myself for being too loose and passive (translated, lost a chunk of my roll on FT, so I'm going back to basics.One little pearl of wisdom related to the TT hand at the beginning of this thread. After the hand, remember to click on the "last hand feature" so you can see what Jerry mucked, ie...did he have a K ? If he called a bet for showdown, it will show his hand there even though he mucked. It helps for making notes on what he will play and bet/call down with. Like a lot of poor players, I tend to call down too much thinking my opponents might be bluffing or overly aggressive with middle pair or a draw (like in your TT hand....kudos on the fold, because too often I hang in there). A related tip on that is playing with other FCP'ers. I had Actuary at my table a few times at PS and Cinci and Laceration Saint (brain cramp on his FCP name) at Fulltilt. I find the fear of making a total fool of myself in front of an FCP'er makes me focus more on trying to make the right decisions.

[finztotheleft 0]

Oops....1 more thing.....Remember to check back on the main table screen periodically to see if the table is still as good as when you picked it out to begin with. At PS for .25/.5 you should be able to find a table with 40% to flop and $4 average pot. Good tables get harder to find the more you move up in limits, but it sure helps with positive cash flow for those of us still learning.

[11 to 1 0]

Whenever someone raises in front of you you should put them on a range of hands based on their postiton and style and reraise them if you believe you have an edge on them based on your hand, posititon, and your ability to outplay them after the flop. One program that helped me find proper preflop standards is pokerstove. I would recommend this to anyone. You can find it at pokerstove.com if you want it.Back to the TT hands against a co open with TT on the button it becomes an eays 3-bet just because it will win too often against the kinds of hands he could be raising preflop. for this same reason TT may be a fold against someone UTG who would only raise JJ+ and AK.

I jusat downloaded pokerstove, thanks for the site - looks like another great tool.

[11 to 1 0]

Hi 11 to 1,I'm a micro limit player too. I've made it up as far as 2/4, but just demoted myself for being too loose and passive (translated, lost a chunk of my roll on FT, so I'm going back to basics.One little pearl of wisdom related to the TT hand at the beginning of this thread. After the hand, remember to click on the "last hand feature" so you can see what Jerry mucked, ie...did he have a K ? If he called a bet for showdown, it will show his hand there even though he mucked. It helps for making notes on what he will play and bet/call down with. Like a lot of poor players, I tend to call down too much thinking my opponents might be bluffing or overly aggressive with middle pair or a draw (like in your TT hand....kudos on the fold, because too often I hang in there). A related tip on that is playing with other FCP'ers. I had Actuary at my table a few times at PS and Cinci and Laceration Saint (brain cramp on his FCP name) at Fulltilt. I find the fear of making a total fool of myself in front of an FCP'er makes me focus more on trying to make the right decisions.

They have this "last hand feature" on Poker Stars? I wanted to play on FT but the whole money thing got screwed up before I got more money. I hope to be in there soon. As for making a fool of myself - too old to care, done it too many times, watched others, it's the human condition, yanno? I watch a lot of poker, I've seen the most astounding bonehead plays from pretty much every pro. They make me feel better, I think the difference is: they just do it less. I love making mistakes, it's the only way to learn. I think, and maybe this happened to you, I think the micro got too easy and when I moved up I just never got a lot of the skills, I could have anticipated but I just won and got comfortable. Comfortable is boring.

[11 to 1 0]

Oops....1 more thing.....Remember to check back on the main table screen periodically to see if the table is still as good as when you picked it out to begin with. At PS for .25/.5 you should be able to find a table with 40% to flop and $4 average pot. Good tables get harder to find the more you move up in limits, but it sure helps with positive cash flow for those of us still learning.

Is this your SN on PS? I'll look for ya. I'm MurderofCrows there.

[Zach6668 513]

Oh yes. About the fewer mistakes: I really dig that poker tracker. I just played back all my recent big losing hands, over and over to see at every stage, where I made the wrong, or less optimal at any rate, decisions. It was great. You know, when you have AK and raise and some guy plays back at you with K4os and the board comes KK84T, well, not that much you can do and you just take a big loss, I guess. But I found a whole slew of things I wasn't looking at at all, and I did, indeed, take notes. I have them pinned all around my screen on stickys so I don't forget. Including Zach's suggestions for good blind-stealing hands to raise with.I am also reading all the posts over and over, comparing what everyone says and studying Zach's generouis explanation of EV for Dummies. BTW, Zach, I checked all my AA and I have always raised with them since I moved up from the PStars micro boards. I also decided I disagree with you, and that for me, my "delayed raise" strategy with AA and a few other big hands is not stupid at all. It worked like a charm at .5/.10 and .10/.25. The reason it worked is the same as the reason I won that KK hand I posted that looked like I played rather badly, because I understood the players. Thing is, now I don't. These new players are a mystery to me and now, I think, I must evolve into more of an odds/EV/position and so forth player. At least online, and this has all been great. I may go back and just read a lot of the old threads where you all have commented for a while. Meanwhile, I am playing back the hands of the other players, especially the winning ones and the ones I run into a lot. An amazing tool.

You can disagree all you like, but it doesn't change the fact that I'm right.Your sample is more than likely too small to use as a basis for deciding if your way is right.Nonetheless, you will win money with AA no matter what you do. You'd have to be a braindead monkey to lose money in the long run with AA. However, if you raise when you have an equity edge, you'll win more. That's the key.Also, don't look at one hand and say that even though it looks like you played it bad, it's ok because you won it. That's not the right way to look at things. So you happened to win that KK hand. The way that hand was played, unless you KNEW that he was a maniac, you're almost NEVER ahead there. You're lucky you made a bad call down after the turn raise and won. You have to think about poker in the long run.- Zach

[Actuary 3]

11-1I'm in love with your passion to learn and your attitudeYou could end up a very very very good player, dwarfing anything I've done.seriously.

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Also, don't look at one hand and say that even though it looks like you played it bad, it's ok because you won it. That's not the right way to look at things. So you happened to win that KK hand. The way that hand was played, unless you KNEW that he was a maniac, you're almost NEVER ahead there. You're lucky you made a bad call down after the turn raise and won. You have to think about poker in the long run.- Zach

I don't think I played it badly, I think it just looked like I did. I think I played it correctly, even if I had lost, for this hand against these players. . I think if I had been against players I didn't know this way of playing would be pretty bad. But in this very specific case, I did know these two players, and so that made it worth the risk. I also agree that making decisions in terms of the odds, or the long run, makes the most sense. At the same time, I think we also have to play the table we are at, the game going on and the players in that hand. That's why it so HARD for me, like I said, like going from an automatic to a five speed stick, all of a sudden you gotta use all your arms and legs just to get out of the driveway!

[11 to 1 0]

11-1I'm in love with your passion to learn and your attitudeYou could end up a very very very good player, dwarfing anything I've done.seriously.

Well, thanks, that's kind and encouraging. It also won't happen. Maybe if I started at twenty-five, maybe. But at 57, having had a series of concusssions in my old job and real trouble with short-term memory, this is like therapy and play and maybe I could get to where could supplement my income, which, being so small, wouldn't take much to be significant. The good thing about not being 25 is that a lot of stuff doesn't bother me too much, I don't feel like I have anything to prove and I'm having a much better time than I was thirty years ago.Youth is so frickin' serious, yanno?