FCPHA: Big Table in the Back

[Whiskey16 1]

I can't believe I am going to discuss this cause I will admit right now I'm not really sure on any of these points.I could see someone making the arguement that looking at who someone calls is not racial profiling, because you are making a decision based on information rather then what someone looks like. And I would tend to agree that looking at a person's activity is not racially motivated. If is a search merely for information through data and information gathering. As for your first question, I guess when you have concrete evidence to support an immenint attack on something, you can then go and prevent the act. Even then I would still rather them catch them en route to said act if possible, but I can see how that is not possible.EDIT: But yea your first question is the million dollar question. whoever can answer that solves a lot of problems.These are mostly my thoughts, and again i tend to simplify things that are too big for my mind to keep in order.

Of course your behavior isn't Racial profiling, and I'll give you behavior is a better indicator, but if the majority of terrorist acts are done by Males of Middle Eastern descent, why shouldn't they have increased security at the airport?You made the comment that if someone bombs something, put them away. The argument is that no one should be able to collect evidence prior to that action. Therefore, catching them en-route would be nearly impossible, if they weren't tipped off.I'm all for the ideal of civil liberties, and I want my privacy, same as everyone else, but I'm also not naive enough to think we live in a world where that's possible. If they're listenning to all my calls, I'm mad. If they're monitoring PINs and finding trends they can verify, and use that information via profiling to catch someone prior to their killing a lot of people, I'm all for it.If I don't like it, I can go to another country where I'll be free, but won't have the same luxuries I have here. I could also be living in worse places.I think there's a balance, and I think the goverment tips the scale in an ugly direction sometimes, and it's our responsibility as citizens to make sure we tip that scale back, but I also don't mind the government taking some of those protective actions on my behalf, in the interest of the safety of the General masses. Just my opinion.

[lvpro 0]

Of course your behavior isn't Racial profiling, and I'll give you behavior is a better indicator, but if the majority of terrorist acts are done by Males of Middle Eastern descent, why shouldn't they have increased security at the airport?You made the comment that if someone bombs something, put them away. The argument is that no one should be able to collect evidence prior to that action. Therefore, catching them en-route would be nearly impossible, if they weren't tipped off.I'm all for the ideal of civil liberties, and I want my privacy, same as everyone else, but I'm also not naive enough to think we live in a world where that's possible. If they're listenning to all my calls, I'm mad. If they're monitoring PINs and finding trends they can verify, and use that information via profiling to catch someone prior to their killing a lot of people, I'm all for it.If I don't like it, I can go to another country where I'll be free, but won't have the same luxuries I have here. I could also be living in worse places.I think there's a balance, and I think the goverment tips the scale in an ugly direction sometimes, and it's our responsibility as citizens to make sure we tip that scale back, but I also don't mind the government taking some of those protective actions on my behalf, in the interest of the safety of the General masses. Just my opinion.

This pretty much sums up exactly how I feel.Well written.

[XX44466XX 0]

Of course your behavior isn't Racial profiling, and I'll give you behavior is a better indicator, but if the majority of terrorist acts are done by Males of Middle Eastern descent, why shouldn't they have increased security at the airport?You made the comment that if someone bombs something, put them away. The argument is that no one should be able to collect evidence prior to that action. Therefore, catching them en-route would be nearly impossible, if they weren't tipped off.I'm all for the ideal of civil liberties, and I want my privacy, same as everyone else, but I'm also not naive enough to think we live in a world where that's possible. If they're listenning to all my calls, I'm mad. If they're monitoring PINs and finding trends they can verify, and use that information via profiling to catch someone prior to their killing a lot of people, I'm all for it.If I don't like it, I can go to another country where I'll be free, but won't have the same luxuries I have here. I could also be living in worse places.I think there's a balance, and I think the goverment tips the scale in an ugly direction sometimes, and it's our responsibility as citizens to make sure we tip that scale back, but I also don't mind the government taking some of those protective actions on my behalf, in the interest of the safety of the General masses. Just my opinion.

Well said. Unfortunately it is an extremely fine line. Anybody remember the internment of Japanese-American citizens during WWII?

[bleacherbum3 9]

bdams...basecomeb....scottyno.....zimmeri've never been wrong.i'm not one to get sucked in by a flashy pair of tits in an av.enjoy your new friend.

haha, you really need to go to bed.

[Cool Runnings 0]

Dammit! And here I thought all this time you were flirting with me!

Nope, sorry.But I am now!

[Allie 0]

[mulhs82 2]

Of course your behavior isn't Racial profiling, and I'll give you behavior is a better indicator, but if the majority of terrorist acts are done by Males of Middle Eastern descent, why shouldn't they have increased security at the airport?You made the comment that if someone bombs something, put them away. The argument is that no one should be able to collect evidence prior to that action. Therefore, catching them en-route would be nearly impossible, if they weren't tipped off.I'm all for the ideal of civil liberties, and I want my privacy, same as everyone else, but I'm also not naive enough to think we live in a world where that's possible. If they're listenning to all my calls, I'm mad. If they're monitoring PINs and finding trends they can verify, and use that information via profiling to catch someone prior to their killing a lot of people, I'm all for it.If I don't like it, I can go to another country where I'll be free, but won't have the same luxuries I have here. I could also be living in worse places.I think there's a balance, and I think the goverment tips the scale in an ugly direction sometimes, and it's our responsibility as citizens to make sure we tip that scale back, but I also don't mind the government taking some of those protective actions on my behalf, in the interest of the safety of the General masses. Just my opinion.

Here's where I may contradict myself....I tend to agree with everything you said. The problem is as you said, is where is the balance, where does the line get drawn? I don't have an answer I'm not gonna pretend to. I want my privacy as much as the next guy, but i also want to be safe and will give up some things as a sacrfice for safety. I think checking phone records is the least I can give up. But I can do without the recording part.

[Whiskey16 1]

Lose a ton of BBs trying to learn to play limit against people that don't fold.Check.Phone on silent to avoid the drunk call from Brett and Erik.....Check.OK, off to bed.

[Painter567 0]

[bleacherbum3 9]

You have chosen to ignore all posts from: 76clubs. · View this post · Un-ignore 76clubs Yup-----Works.

BRAD! Seriously, I need to start using this feature.

You know there's a standard ritual whenever one of you gets to meet one of the conspiracy I haven't met yet, right?I'll be expecting a full report on what it's like to kiss Brett on the mouth. Just to be fair, he'll also have to tell me what it's like to kiss you.Get R Done for Jebus!

Wonder if this has happened yet.

[lvpro 0]

So there, I am, in Sri Lanka, formerly Ceylon, at about 3 o'clock in the morning, looking for one thousand brown M&Ms to fill a brandy glass, or Ozzy wouldn't go on stage that night. So, Jeff Beck pops his head 'round the door, and mentions there's a little sweets shop on the edge of town. So.. we go. And.. it's closed. So there's me, and Keith Moon, and David Crosby, breaking into that little sweets shop. Well, instead of a guard dog, they've got this bloody great big bengal tiger. I managed to take out the tiger with a can of mace, but the shopkeeper and his son... that's a different story altogether. I had to beat them to death with their own shoes. Nasty business, really, but sure enough I got the M&Ms, and Ozzy went on stage and did a great show.

[mulhs82 2]

it's time once again for me to go to sleep.night everyone. good discussions.

[bleacherbum3 9]

Yes, apparently you did. But we've all succumbed. It was amazing. It was like Name that Tune, only, it was more like Name that Douche, when they do the betting round.Blue: I can name it in 7 posts.Us: We can name it in 5 posts.Blue: Forget you all, I can name it in one post!And after that first post, he called it.It was a thing of beauty, really.

LOLI kinda miss that show.

[Allie 0]

So there, I am, in Sri Lanka, formerly Ceylon, at about 3 o'clock in the morning, looking for one thousand brown M&Ms to fill a brandy glass, or Ozzy wouldn't go on stage that night. So, Jeff Beck pops his head 'round the door, and mentions there's a little sweets shop on the edge of town. So.. we go. And.. it's closed. So there's me, and Keith Moon, and David Crosby, breaking into that little sweets shop. Well, instead of a guard dog, they've got this bloody great big bengal tiger. I managed to take out the tiger with a can of mace, but the shopkeeper and his son... that's a different story altogether. I had to beat them to death with their own shoes. Nasty business, really, but sure enough I got the M&Ms, and Ozzy went on stage and did a great show.

[lvpro 0]

YAY! Someone recognized it!

[Allie 0]

Sigh. Nite all.p.s. ISAP

[bleacherbum3 9]

Nickelback is opening up for Bon Jovi on July 18th and 19th at Giants Stadium.. unfortunately it is the day before and the day I leave for Vegas so I was not able to get the tickets..

Yeah, I'm not going cuz I'll be in Vegas. This show hits Soldier Field July 22, I think.

I will officially be in the Bleachers on Sunday, May 28th vs. Atlanta. I'm very excited.

[NorthPacific 25]

here's the thing about the internet. monitoring those sites, don't really mean shi.te. if i'm a real terrorist with ANY kind of knowledge, i'm going through so many zombies, you'll have no idea who i really am. so i think a lawyer MIGHT, i stress MIGHT, get that thrown away.as for travel, i agree with you. except, i don't give that information freely. it's REQUIRED as a condition of travel! when i come back into the country and refuse to fill out the forms, they won't let me in. so i wouldn't say i give it voluntarily. i just choose to travel! monitoring PUBLIC rallies, sure. on a public street. if you could be reasonably assume no privacy, then yes. But if i'm having meetings in my house, how do they know that i'm having a rally?i'm discussing, not trying to refute your points.

I'm all for open discussion so no worries. As to the internet, thank goodness we have smarter peopel then me watching the zombie sights. As for most people, they aren't that smart and will just go to those sights unprotected.You choose to travel and such choose to provide the information, semantics really, you could choose to not give the information and therefore not travel.If you are having the rally in your house then you probably wouldn't have to worry about being monitored.Really I just threw out those scenarios off the cuff. The point is that there is more work to be done before anyone is going to break down your door. There are many checks and balances built into the system that can and will protect the personal freedoms that we all enjoy. The corrupt politician who wants to monitor his opponents would have to have an army of corrupt LEO's before he could misuse this with any degree of success.

[booyaga 0]

PokerStars Game #4908102399: Hold'em Limit ($2/$4) - 2006/05/12 - 02:27:35 (ET)*** SHOW DOWN ***booyaga2: shows [Kc 3c] (a full house, Threes full of Aces)DaZedAce: shows [Jh Jd] (two pair, Aces and Jacks)booyaga2 collected $40 from potDaZedAce said, "WOW"DaZedAce said, "wtf"*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $42 | Rake $2 Board [5h Ah 3h Ad 3s]Seat 1: pilgrimpat (small blind) folded before FlopSeat 2: DaZedAce (big blind) showed [Jh Jd] and lost with two pair, Aces and JacksSeat 3: cantflopsht folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 4: feelinglucky folded before Flop (didn't bet)Seat 5: booyaga2 showed [Kc 3c] and won ($40) with a full house, Threes full of AcesSeat 6: benzibox (button) folded on the Floppinch pinch

[pupsamazingwife 0]

I watched the movie of The Outsiders with Dave. It was pretty good. I knew he hasn't yet read Lord of the Flies, but it shocks me everytime it comes up between us. It is a fantastic read. I've read it 3 times. The movie was crap. The book was one of the best books I've ever read.Oh so when I was a kid I read all the "Narnia's". I read them again a couple of years ago. Good stuff.Okay, Madame Nikki's required reading listAll books by Douglas AdamsLord of the Flies by William GoldingDelta of Venus Erotica by Anais NinAnything by Bill BrysonNeuromancer by William GibsonAll books in the Discworld series by Terry PratchettThe Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings Trilogy by J.R.R. TolkeinThe Chronicles of Narnia by C.S. LewisAll of the Harry Potter Series by J.K. RowlingAll of the Series of Unfortunate Events by Lemony SnicketThis is what I've got so far. I'm sure I'll think of more soon, not that y'all are running to the library right now because I said so.

Lord of the Flies freaked me out. I read it when I was quite young and havent since.. I barely remember it, but I remember it really freaked me out.

Have you ever met someone from Mensa?

Asia Carrera (we were online friends after she had her daughter)

To break up all the consipracy theory and book talk... So.. I called the doctors office earlier and spoke to the testing woman.. Apparently my insurance said that i can not have my Cystoscopy in the surgical center and have to have it in the doctors office. This means that I would have to have it while wide awake.This is NOT going to happen.. No one is going to shove a scope up my urethra, fill my bladder with fluid while it is in there, then take a chunk of my bladder while I am wide awake.. I was told even by the office staff that it is painful, especially with the biopsy.. Yet.. I feel another UTI coming back. If I do not get the tests done, my doctor is eventually going to refuse to fill anymore antibiotics for me. My urologist said that if she finds everything to be OK.. that I should head to the gynecologist since the UTI's come back like clockwork right before my time of the month. Can this be some other **** like hormones??I am beside myself and just have no idea what to do.. I have been in tears almost all night.. I first instinct is to go to the Gyn and ask her.. also try to find another urologist who can put me to sleep in her office since the insurance wont pay for a surgi center. I know many doctors can put you asleep in their office for procedures.. Ughhhhhh

OUCH! Sorry Sharon!

Sharon, maybe you could find a urologist office that would administer a cocktail of Midazolam (Versed) and Fentynl. It's not a general anaesthetic....but a powerful combo of analgesic (painkiller) and an amnesic. I've had it for a colonscopy, and trust me, you won't feel or remember a thing. Might be easier to find that, than a doc office that will administer a general.

Yeah that would work... try and get that! I got that right after my gallbladder surgery, after they woke me up from surgery they had to shove a giant tube down my throat and get stones from the bile duct... i certainly dont remember! ------------------------WELL they people came to clean my carpets.. there were here no more than 25 mins and supposedly cleaned them all.... they ended up putting a hole in the carpet at the seam between the living room and hallway. I called the office, told the manager bitch to come take pics and fix the holes...The carpet guys came back and hot glued the carpet back down. My carpet is STILL soaking wet and feels sticky cause they used the shampoo on it, and then just sucked it out, didnt rinse or anything. So all the soap is just gonna attract more dirt. I took lots and lots of pics during and after they cleaned it, cause the mgr came and took FOUR pictures, just one of the whole hallway, one of the whole living room, and one of each bedroom. I took detailed pics of every single spot thats left, where it was ripped open and after the shoddy repair job. and guess what? still no AC filter.

[NorthPacific 25]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh the tables hate me

[NorthPacific 25]

5 User(s) are reading this topic (4 Guests and 0 Anonymous Users)1 Members: NorthPacificlet me dance for you

[NorthPacific 25]

Good posts Roger. I knew there was a reason I picked you for my team.

Aww, I missed my owner giving me a compliment. Thanks Allie Rabbit. Have a great morning when you get in and read this.

To break up all the consipracy theory and book talk... So.. I called the doctors office earlier and spoke to the testing woman.. Apparently my insurance said that i can not have my Cystoscopy in the surgical center and have to have it in the doctors office. This means that I would have to have it while wide awake.This is NOT going to happen.. No one is going to shove a scope up my urethra, fill my bladder with fluid while it is in there, then take a chunk of my bladder while I am wide awake.. I was told even by the office staff that it is painful, especially with the biopsy.. Yet.. I feel another UTI coming back. If I do not get the tests done, my doctor is eventually going to refuse to fill anymore antibiotics for me. My urologist said that if she finds everything to be OK.. that I should head to the gynecologist since the UTI's come back like clockwork right before my time of the month. Can this be some other **** like hormones??I am beside myself and just have no idea what to do.. I have been in tears almost all night.. I first instinct is to go to the Gyn and ask her.. also try to find another urologist who can put me to sleep in her office since the insurance wont pay for a surgi center. I know many doctors can put you asleep in their office for procedures.. Ughhhhhh

I hope all turns out well. My thoughts are with you

[NorthPacific 25]

My big thing is that, if they start to assume you are going to do something without you actually doing it, it undermines the biggest and most important thing about the judicial system...."Innocent until proven guilty." Not, innocent until we think you might do something illegal.But the first ammendment gives me a bunch of rights to talk about and do a lot of things free of prosecution. I also have a right to privacy in my own house. I will say that the internet is not a private place, and any information that you send over the internet it can be resonably assumed that someone else is seeing it. I will also say if someone blows something up, take care of them however you see fit.I don't know, I think i'm out of my league on this one. I tend to oversimplify things I do not fully understand, nor have the inclination to figure out. Maybe I should, but at this point, it is not my priority in life.

Yes John, you are innocent until proven guilty "in a court of law." What I'm talking about is the Gov't building a case. The burden for certain aspects of the system are different at different levels.If you are in a public place I as a LEO can stop and talk to you for no other reason then you are there. You have the right not to talk to me but as long as it's consensual I can talk to you about anything I want.Now if you are doing something suspicious, say walking back and forth in front of a liquor store in a manner that would make a reasonably person think you are planning to do something wrong (casing the joint) , then I can stop and talk to you, ask you for ID, compell you to identify yourself and if articulatable, pat you down for a weapon. (Terry vs. Ohio) aka the stop and frisk or the Terry stop. Reasonable suspicion is the burden here.Now during this stop I find a weapon concealed on your person. You don't have a CWP and so I now have Probably Cause to arrest you. Now we get to court. I have to articulate why I stopped you, why I felt you were a threat, why I patted you down, where I found the gun, how I knew you did not have a CWP, what day and what time of that day it was, and that you either knew or should have known that it was illegal to conceal a weapon. That is called "beyond a reasonable doubt."

[NorthPacific 25]

The question is at what point is it legal for them to use information to prevent something from blowing up in the first place?If racial profiling is illegal, then why are any of these other things their doing legal, since they all basically profile the same types of things?

The point where mens rea and actus reus meet. Mens rea = mental state i.e. recklessly, negligently, knowingly and intentionally.Actus reus = guilty actYou can think about, talk about, fantasize about and even plan out an illegal act and it's not illegal. (some things this doesn't apply to as in planning to kill the president)Now as soon as you take a step toward completing the act you have crossed the boundary from a crime of thought and a crime. In some instances that step can be quite small. Lets say you plan out an attack on a school. You go into great detail about how you are going to distract the police, how you are going to build and plant explosives, what type of guns you will use, how you will get the guns and ammo and any other plans you may make. (Columbine HS) No crime yet by the way. Then you go out and acquire any component of these plans even one as small as purchasing white tip matches to build impact grenades and you've crossed into criminal behavior.The line is different for different type of crimes. If I'm not mistaken, it is now against federal law to even plan a terrorist attack even if you don't acquire any of the components.