Who Do You Agree With?

[gfdsa146 0]

so i'm playing .10/.25 NLHE. I got $6 in front of me. There's a limper UTG who has me covered. I pick up KK on the button, folded around to me. I raise it to .75 hoping that the UTG limper will call me with whatever A-x he has. UTG had played super tight up until this point. He pushes all-in, I instacall (description of hand ends here) (results start here, don't read it if you don't want to) He had A-J, flops two pair on me and I lose.So my friend was watching the hand and he tells me that I shoulda just pushed all-in when action came around to me on the button. Why? so UTG hopefully folds his A-x and doesn't hit his ace. I disagree with him, saying that the point of my raise was to extract value from my KK. I think that pushing all-in would not be the optimal play, because I would get no more than his .25 if he was holding Ace-rag. Additionally, I told him that i should be encouraging, not discouraging, towards being called by an A-x because I'm a 2-to-1 favorite(i think) to win.After I tell him about me being a 2-to-1 favorite to win, he then starts off on people who play poker according to "the long run". He also says that the "think in the long run mentality" is a mentality that he takes advantage of, telling me about how he cracks AA with low suited connectors and beats KK and QQ with A-x. This is coming from a guy who went all-in preflop with JJ and told his opponent who revealed his A-x to fold. I don't think this mentality of "please don't call me with A-x so I don't have to suffer the pain of a bad beat" is +EV.So I tell him that I was willing to make a bet with him, up to $500, that if he were to ask any player that makes their living off of poker about whether or not pushing all-in on the button with KK with an UTG limper behind you is the optimal move, that he would say no. Now that I think about it, this was probably out of me being angry than anything else. Making this bet with him was a pure ego move, and was NOT the optimal play. So I'll give you an easy example to compare our approaches to Hold Em - Hero has a legitimate made hand and KNOWS his opponent is on a draw - I bet enough such that my opponent does not have odds to call, but I'm happy if he does call. - My friend overbets the pot or pushes all-in, and is unhappy if his opponent calls.If you agree with me, then please oh please come up with a way to help me correct his thinking.If you don't agree with me, then try to convince me to change my thinking or tell me where I'm wrong.If you don't agree with either of us, don't post. (sw)

[Balloon guy 158]

You are wrong.....about wanting him to change.You want him to be just like that, and play at your weekly home game every week. Buy him extra beer if you have to.Good luck with teaching a pig to sing though

[gfdsa146 0]

You are wrong.....about wanting him to change.You want him to be just like that, and play at your weekly home game every week. Buy him extra beer if you have to.Good luck with teaching a pig to sing though

he does play at my weekly home game lolI don't want him to think like that so i can extract more money from him. He's my friend. I want him to become a better player. That way, I can extract more money from him when he hits it big and remembers that I made him the player that he would be that day.

[Royal_Tour 0]

I play live fulltime now.I hear "Maaan, you gotta push so those hands dont call".Me. Uhh. i want K,8 to call my 10x BB preflop raise when i have aces. Its just bad luck that the flop was K,8,x this one time.we all know aces cant win 100% of the time, dont play results based. meaning dont take every situation for the outcome it creates. there is simple math and strategy involved in basic poker.some people havent gotten there yet, so dont worry about them

[gfdsa146 0]

I play live fulltime now.I hear "Maaan, you gotta push so those hands dont call".Me. Uhh. i want K,8 to call my 10x BB preflop raise when i have aces. Its just bad luck that the flop was K,8,x this one time.we all know aces cant win 100% of the time, dont play results based. meaning dont take every situation for the outcome it creates. there is simple math and strategy involved in basic poker.some people havent gotten there yet, so dont worry about them

so...you agree with me?

[Royal_Tour 0]

so...you agree with me?

yes.

[vbnautilus 48]

Clearly when you have a better hand you want as much money in the pot as possible. I don't see how any argument could be made against that. Whether a push or a small raise is the best way to achieve that depends on the opponent and the situation.

[XXEddie 0]

why are you sitting at 25NL with $6?

[Royal_Tour 0]

why are you sitting at 25NL with $6?

to cut off the implied odds from his opponents when he has KK and raises and gets called by AJo.??who knows

[gfdsa146 0]

why are you sitting at 25NL with $6?

I originally had $20, got crippled holding A-K to a A-Q-9 board. I bet, got re-raised, i re-raised all-in got called by A-9. That left me with $2. After being left with $2, I was able to min-bet some flops and get everyone to fold, it was hilarious. I would limp, board would come something like A-A-Q. I bet .25, instafold all around. This happened for like 8 hands. That's how i got back up ot $6.

[Royal_Tour 0]

I originally had $20, got crippled holding A-K to a A-Q-9 board. I bet, got re-raised, i re-raised all-in got called by A-9. That left me with $2. After being left with $2, I was able to min-bet some flops and get everyone to fold, it was hilarious. I would limp, board would come something like A-A-Q. I bet .25, instafold all around. This happened for like 8 hands. That's how i got back up ot $6.

dont value anything less than 20BB's in a cash game.if i get crippled at a cash game table, I'll shovel to double, while i grab money to re-load. if by some chance i double or triple or quad up. then i wont have to rebuy as much. but still.play the levels you are comfortable wth

[Zach6668 513]

dont value anything less than 20BB's in a cash game.if i get crippled at a cash game table, I'll shovel to double, while i grab money to re-load. if by some chance i double or triple or quad up. then i wont have to rebuy as much. but still.

You have to understand how fundamentally wrong this statement is, right?

[Royal_Tour 0]

You have to understand how fundamentally wrong this statement is, right?

yep. but I know you understand that limit and no limit play completely different, and if you cant understand my point in that post, you need to go back to limit

[Steamed Rice 0]

Fold the KK next time. An Ace always comes when someone has KK. Just looking out for ya, sir.

[scottyno 0]

obviously in a cash game you want him to get it all in with your KK vs his AJ every time, in a tourney you won't always want them to call if they're on a draw

[SpiderGuard 0]

Am I wrong when I would argue that if this was a tourney it's not necessarily wrong to want the flush draw to go away?Edit: Am I also slow enough that scotty makes this same point before me...well played.

[Actuary 3]

yep. but I know you understand that limit and no limit play completely different, and if you cant understand my point in that post, you need to go back to limit

of course in NL a bigger stack allows for a bigger win, but how does that make throwing away money better than reloading and playing correctly?

[checkymcfold 0]

Am I wrong when I would argue that if this was a tourney it's not necessarily wrong to want the flush draw to go away?Edit: Am I also slow enough that scotty makes this same point before me...well played.

it's also conceivable that you'd be willing to sacrifice some winrate to lower variance in a cash game, but that'd be silly if you're watching that whole "bankroll" thing properly.

[SilentButDeadly3 0]

In the words of someone I know.....Respect my Raises!!!!And your friend probly tilts very easily after a bad beat.

[Zach6668 513]

yep. but I know you understand that limit and no limit play completely different, and if you cant understand my point in that post, you need to go back to limit

lawl.If you think this has anything to do with differences between limit and no limit, you should quit poker.What you said is the equivalent of saying that I prefer $100 bills, so I just light my $20 bills on fire, and keep the $100s.

[XXEddie 0]

I originally had $20, got crippled holding A-K to a A-Q-9 board. I bet, got re-raised, i re-raised all-in got called by A-9. That left me with $2. After being left with $2, I was able to min-bet some flops and get everyone to fold, it was hilarious. I would limp, board would come something like A-A-Q. I bet .25, instafold all around. This happened for like 8 hands. That's how i got back up ot $6.

as someone already said, if you drop that low REBUY OR LEAVE. I generally play 50nl and if I fell in or below the $30-$25 area i rebuy

[Zach6668 513]

as someone already said, if you drop that low REBUY OR LEAVE. I generally play 50nl and if I fell in or below the $30-$25 area i rebuy

In theory, if your plan is to play as deep as possible, you should top off after every hand, and never let yourself fall even that far.

[JesseW316 0]

why are you sitting at 25NL with $6?

Good question.

I originally had $20, got crippled holding A-K to a A-Q-9 board. I bet, got re-raised, i re-raised all-in got called by A-9. That left me with $2. After being left with $2, I was able to min-bet some flops and get everyone to fold, it was hilarious. I would limp, board would come something like A-A-Q. I bet .25, instafold all around. This happened for like 8 hands. That's how i got back up ot $6.

And you didn't reload IMMEDIATELY why?

dont value anything less than 20BB's in a cash game.if i get crippled at a cash game table, I'll shovel to double, while i grab money to re-load. if by some chance i double or triple or quad up. then i wont have to rebuy as much. but still.play the levels you are comfortable wth

I love you, but that's a bad idea.I kinda just quoted the posts I had a response to. OP, the correct action for your hand depends on the table/stacks/images. You said the UTG had been playing VERY tight lately. If that's so, why wouldn't the UTG limp set off alarms in your head? Usually an UTG limp is very strong. Then again, this is 25NL so I don't put anything past anyone. I don't think .75 is the best raise, though. I think a little more is correct, like 1.25 or so. However, this discussion is aggravating as there is absolutely no reason you should have 6 in front of you. Top off after every hand if you want to maximize your profitability.

[obizee 0]

Top off after every hand if you want to maximize your profitability.

Do all u who play ring games do this? Using 25 NL as example... I would definetely reload below 20, but u suggest as soon as u are in the game and blinds pass (if u dont play) and are at 24.65 reload?

[XXEddie 0]

In theory, if your plan is to play as deep as possible, you should top off after every hand, and never let yourself fall even that far.

2 main reasons1) Im not exactly playing as deep as possible. Just trying to not play too shallow.2) I like to keep track of how much I am ahead/behind during my session, and topping off everytime I fall under makes that hard.You have a good point though. Maybe I should just keep track of it on a seperate sheet of paper. Or maybe I should just not care excatly where I am plus/minus wise....meh.