i folded ak to a 3x bb raise, comments?

[SimonGreen 0]

Just looking for some comments on this, i was playing a NLHE tournament, 4 people left, top 2 get paid.Blinds where 100/200, i had 3000 in my stack. I was on the BB with AK, the small blind raise it 600 more over the top. I figured that if i call, and miss the flop - ill be moving all in in the next few hands, or if i move in over the top he'll have to call (he was left with about 900).I know it was most likely the best hand, but i just decided why take a 50/50 or a 3 to 1 when i can just see more flops or steal blinds - where im not expecting a showdown. The play caused a bit of controversy at the table. (i went on to win the thing!)Anybody got any comments on this?

[Absolute 0]

i have a commentyou shouldn't have foldedyou should have re-raised

[SimonGreen 0]

A re-raise would bring it down to a showdown. Say he had a pocket pair - my tournaments on the line on a 50/50 - i think i can do better than that.I played through the rest of the tournament without a single showdown, until the very last hand.

[Smasharoo 0]

Impossible to say without knowing the other chipstacks, really.I'd probably tend to fold too, though, unless I was in 3rd place.

[2AceSuited 0]

you're lucky it worked out for you, because you made an incorrect decision, in my opinion. 4 handed that's a great hand. fold, and you risk all crap cards and missing the money.

[Absolute 0]

Impossible to say without knowing the other chipstacks, really.I'd probably tend to fold too, though, unless I was in 3rd place.

pushing in is better than folding here.laying down AK to a small raise with 15 big bets left is ridiculous.

[Smasharoo 0]

pushing in is better than folding here.laying down AK to a small raise with 15 big bets left is ridiculous.Not really.It's not a cash game, the goal is to get to the money. Pushing into an automatic call and putting 75% of your stack at risk in what's going to be a coinflip *most* of the time is stupid when you're two off the cash.

[SimonGreen 0]

Yeah, exactly.Id rather keep my chips to steal the blinds - play flops with people. Not just slam it all in and hope to win a coin flip.

[Absolute 0]

pushing in is better than folding here.laying down AK to a small raise with 15 big bets left is ridiculous.Not really.It's not a cash game, the goal is to get to the money.  Pushing into an automatic call and putting 75% of your stack at risk in what's going to be a coinflip *most* of the time is stupid when you're two off the cash.

I didn't reccomend pushing in, I do think it's better than folding.The more I think about it, I think it's an easy call.Automatic push if an A or K falls.Part of getting in to the money is making sure your opponents don't. Not avoiding pots.

[Absolute 0]

Yeah, exactly.Id rather keep my chips to steal the blinds - play flops with people. Not just slam it all in and hope to win a coin flip.

it's still better than folding.plus, you are more than a 50% favorite more than 50% of the time.

[Smasharoo 0]

Automatic push if an A or K falls. WHat do you do the other 70% of the time?Calling is the worst option of all.

[SimonGreen 0]

I wasnt avoiding pots. 3 hands later i pushed in over the top of a player who raised (not commiting himself) with a 27off, who i sensed weakness in. After he had see me lay down AK to a raise, i got alot of respect.Id rather put plays on like this - where im not going to get a call, and win the pot 100% of the time, then put in one third of my stack, hoping to get lucky and catch.

[Absolute 0]

I wasnt avoiding pots. 3 hands later i pushed in over the top of a player who raised (not commiting himself) with a 27off, who i sensed weakness in. After he had see me lay down AK to a raise, i got alot of respect.Id rather put plays on like this - where im not going to get a call, and win the pot 100% of the time, then put in one third of my stack, hoping to get lucky and catch.

well you said nothing about reads or stack sizes of your opponents.but seriously, even if it was dewey tomko raising here, im still in this hand

[SimonGreen 0]

Yeah, exactly.Id rather keep my chips to steal the blinds - play flops with people. Not just slam it all in and hope to win a coin flip.

it's still better than folding.plus, you are more than a 50% favorite more than 50% of the time.

Well, say you 'luckily' get a 60/40 or a 70/30 - i think my game is better when i have enough to play with than risking my tournament on 1 in 3 - if you dont, thats up to you i guess - good luck.

[Absolute 0]

so are you folding JJ here too, and waiting for someone to drop out in 3rd and 4th before you do?

[SimonGreen 0]

I wasnt avoiding pots. 3 hands later i pushed in over the top of a player who raised (not commiting himself) with a 27off, who i sensed weakness in. After he had see me lay down AK to a raise, i got alot of respect.Id rather put plays on like this - where im not going to get a call, and win the pot 100% of the time, then put in one third of my stack, hoping to get lucky and catch.

well you said nothing about reads or stack sizes of your opponents.but seriously, even if it was dewey tomko raising here, im still in this hand

I said my opponents stack made him pot commited after he had raised. I would be in the hand if say my stack was twice as large as it was - but i can either do the stupid thing and call - or i can move all-in. In both cases im 99% having a showdown, where im probably going to get crippled 50% of the time.Now, i can just fold this hand, without having hardly anything invested in the pot, and just wait for oppurtunities to enter flops for cheap - or be the raiser myself - forcing others to fold.I definately know which option i prefer, and which option will win me the most tournaments in the long run.

[SimonGreen 0]

so are you folding JJ here too, and waiting for someone to drop out in 3rd and 4th before you do?

No, i am more likely to play JJ, as 22,33,44,55,66,77,88,99,TT i have a 4.5-1 advantage against. AK AQ KQ i get the 50/50 im not so happy with, but this is only 3 hands. AA,KK,QQ im dead, and any other hand im in good shape against.This is much more powerful for the situation than my AK, where 22 - QQ is a race, KK - AA is bad news, and any other hands im just a 60-40 or 70-30 against.

[Smasharoo 0]

so are you folding JJ here too, and waiting for someone to drop out in 3rd and 4th before you do?JJ's a so much better hand here it's not even in the same ballpark. You're crushing a smaller pair most of the time with JJ.This raise here is almost allways a small to medium pair. Overcards will generally push into the BB here looking to pick the blind up without having to see a flop.

[Absolute 0]

so are you folding JJ here too, and waiting for someone to drop out in 3rd and 4th before you do?JJ's a so much better hand here it's not even in the same ballpark.  You're crushing a smaller pair most of the time with JJ.This raise here is almost allways a small to medium pair.  Overcards will generally push into the BB here looking to pick the blind up without having to see a flop.

where are you getting this?a 3x raise is pretty standard in a MTT.the chances of it being 8-8 or no better than the chances of it being KQ

[Smasharoo 0]

the chances of it being 8-8 or no better than the chances of it being KQIf the guy in the SB compeltely sucks, I guess.If he has any idea what he's doing, it's much more likely 88.

[SimonGreen 0]

Exactly, i didnt see the hand but was told afterwards that it was pocket tens.

[Pudge714 0]

Simon you are clearly wrong and you get lucky that you ended up winning. Folded to a short stack in the SB three handed he could be raising with almost any hand trying to steal the blinds. Including Ax K10 Kj KQ a pocket pair or something like qj 109 suited or maybe aa or kk. Those are four categories of hands. If he has ax or kx you a big favorite and moving in will generally be the best play get all your money with the best hand. If he has a pocket pair you are racing if you win you're in great shape, if you lose you still have about 1500 left, which you could hope to make a move with move in. If he had something like 109suited or qj he could fold to your reraise or call with a worst hand were you are a favorite so move in. Your only worry is that he has aa or kk and unless you have an incredible read by folding you are playing scared poker. It sounds to me like you want to post and fold into the money not win the tourney. By the way did the raiser show?

[halvey7 0]

Fold if you don't like money.

[MapleLeafs 142]

Just looking for some comments on this, i was playing a NLHE tournament, 4 people left, top 2 get paid.Blinds where 100/200, i had 3000 in my stack. I was on the BB with AK, the small blind raise it 600 more over the top. I figured that if i call, and miss the flop - ill be moving all in in the next few hands, or if i move in over the top he'll have to call (he was left with about 900).I know it was most likely the best hand, but i just decided why take a 50/50 or a 3 to 1 when i can just see more flops or steal blinds - where im not expecting a showdown. The play caused a bit of controversy at the table. (i went on to win the thing!)Anybody got any comments on this?

What kind of tournament only pays 2 spots? Even SnG's pay the top 3. It must've either been a 6 person SnG or a $50 5:00 AM tourney with 8 entries.

[lokibeat 0]

This is an incredibly educational post. I'm with most people on this, thinking a push is the way to go, but reading Smash's insight and the OP's thought process make me view it differently. If you're confident you can outplay your opponents elsewhere with the best of it, this is a solid play. Graduate level thinking here. I'm still in elementary school.