General Poker Forum?

[fatman 1]

Interesting.A few people hit the nail right on the head here. People form their own cliques. The high limit, or successful, players all talk on AIM or whereever high limit players talk. I remember watching someone post a graph (forgot his name) about how he was won $200K or so over the last year in online cash games, and I couldn't help but wonder, where have you been? I saw Hoosier reply to both that post about how the guy was a stud, as well as a JC post in Strat about level 3 and 4 thinking in a tournament, and I couldn't help but wonder, where have you been? BKice used to be more open but now he's tight lipped, when he's around, which isn't often. Steve never posts about much of anything except for his students or questioning General, like this thread and the time when Brad Booth posted. People like checkymcfold who I know play medium stakes, variety of games, rarely post about such things at all. Is this the way it always used to be? I don't know much about RDog, MSals, Gilbertology, simply because they don't post in General about poker much, or if they do it's nothing of huge "significance" (similar to all my posts, for the record). The only "open" players that plays medium limits or higher that I've seen here are GrinderMJ and Mark .And you know what? I'm OK with all this. This is a place for me to pass the time, and most of the above posters probably are 1) Private people who don't want their games/personalities broadcast for the world to see or 2) Don't want to divulge much information, for fear that educating people will only make their games stronger and the games harder to beat.So what's left? A lot of lower stakes players "paying it forward", a bunch of rail threads, some rules questions, a list of high stakes games going at FTP, and a few other random obvservations. A lot of people that are "friends" doing so in "private (read: AIM, etc) places, or branching out in OT. That's not a big deal, I don't think, it is the natural evolution of a community such as this.When I was listening to Sports radio the other day someone called in to complain that the hosts weren't talking about the White Sox enough. The host said, "Well, you're on the air, what about the White Sox do you want to talk about?" The caller stuttered for a few moments before muttering some nonsense about how that wasn't the point. If you want General to be a "better" place, CONTRIBUTE. Don't whine about the way things are going here when you have done little in the past year to try to rectfiy the situation. If it doesn't matter enough for you to do that, then you probably should not be complaining in the first place.

Very well said sir.

[NoSup4U 0]

Good points. Steve, start posting in the strat forums again! :)Mark

[NicksDad1970 0]

I honestly don't know if this site has got better, worse or stayed the same. I used to come to this site 50x a day. Just to see what's going on. I'd brag about it to anyone I could. Then it seemed everytime I read a thread there would be more immature bashing than constructive additions.So I pretty much stopped all together. I tried to help when I could or add mature responses but it didn't work and I didn't really need any more stress in my life. I hope this site has got better like many of you have said. Maybe some of the people that have left will come back. Maybe even some new members who will add a lot to this site.

[onlyme386 0]

So what does a "high limit" player get from posting on FCP? Why should they share in a public forum how they think at different stages, how they process a hand, etc. when the know full well that others are reading this and can/will use it against them?

[chgocubs99 0]

So what does a "high limit" player get from posting on FCP? Why should they share in a public forum how they think at different stages, how they process a hand, etc. when the know full well that others are reading this and can/will use it against them?

My point exactly. Nothing. Which is why they don't. Which is why people shouldn't expect general to change much. Which pretty much means that this is way it has evolved and is going to work, and if you think there is something "wrong" with it, you should either contribute to change it or get out. I personally like it just the way it is and I suspect a lot of others do too, but just complain because, well, it is human nature to complain.

[bdc30 0]

So what does a "high limit" player get from posting on FCP? Why should they share in a public forum how they think at different stages, how they process a hand, etc. when the know full well that others are reading this and can/will use it against them?

Because I would bet most of the "high limit" guys on the forum today WEREN'T when they first started coming here. They gleaned some strategy and ideas about the game from the guys who came before them. They should have the conscience to give the same BACK to the forum as they took from it. Just the other day, someone bumped an old thread with thestein asking for a stake from two years ago. Today, he pwns the $109 rebuy on almost a nightly basis. Where are all his strat posts and stakeaments? (I'm NOT picking on the stein, as I have seen him do a stakement or two in the past, just making a point)

[steve7stud 0]

I'd also like to point out that there's a bit of a conflict of interest when the OP posts about no longer offering strat tips and things of that nature. He does, however to select forum posters that have paid his nominal fee to become a student. Not exactly "community" minded.

Sigh. I spent about two solid years giving assistance to this forum. Eventually I decided to take on students. It was a natural progression I suppose. I didn't plan on doing it, just happened. I am far too busy now to take on anymore students, but I would like to contribute to the forum more if time allows. I think I have always been "community" minded. I only have so much time in the day, and chose students from the FCP community,If everyone thinks that General is fine now, I think that's great. I mean that in the most sincere way. It seems like I might be out of touch with the community. That too is natural.Regardless, I am still around and hope to meet those of you who attend the WSOP.

[chgocubs99 0]

Sigh. I spent about two solid years giving assistance to this forum. Eventually I decided to take on students. It was a natural progression I suppose. I didn't plan on doing it, just happened. I am far too busy now to take on anymore students, but I would like to contribute to the forum more if time allows. I think I have always been "community" minded. I only have so much time in the day, and chose students from the FCP community,If everyone thinks that General is fine now, I think that's great. I mean that in the most sincere way. It seems like I might be out of touch with the community. That too is natural.Regardless, I am still around and hope to meet those of you who attend the WSOP.

Don't take my post as indicative that General is fine...it's only one persons opinion.But I would ask, with the above parts being bolded, why you are even concerned with the state of General? It is clear from this post, the obvious fact that you are clearly playing super high, and Mark's sarcastic comment before, that you have moved on beyond this. So why even worry about it?

[steve7stud 0]

Don't take my post as indicative that General is fine...it's only one persons opinion.But I would ask, with the above parts being bolded, why you are even concerned with the state of General? It is clear from this post, the obvious fact that you are clearly playing super high, and Mark's sarcastic comment before, that you have moved on beyond this. So why even worry about it?

Ok you're right.

[bdc30 0]

Here's a question...NOT necessarily directed at steve but any of the mods who've lost interest or moved on.Why not renounce your "mod" status and push for the forum to give it to someone who actually IS "in touch" with the community and on the board a decent amount of time?If you really and truly cared about the community, that's the noble thing to do.

[NoSup4U 0]

But I would ask, with the above parts being bolded, why you are even concerned with the state of General? It is clear from this post, the obvious fact that you are clearly playing super high, and Mark's sarcastic comment before, that you have moved on beyond this. So why even worry about it?

Woah, where did I make a sarcastic comment?Mark

[nutzbuster 7]

Here's a question...NOT necessarily directed at steve but any of the mods who've lost interest or moved on.Why not renounce your "mod" status and push for the forum to give it to someone who actually IS "in touch" with the community and on the board a decent amount of time?If you really and truly cared about the community, that's the noble thing to do.

I disagree. There is plenty or room for everyone. I think there are enough mods really. And there is much that can be learned here from the few founding folks that still are here, regardless of how often or not they contribute or post. This is simply a discussion of how some see the current state of this forum. It's all good. No need for any one to give anything up. I would hate to see any more folks leave, especially the ones who've been here the longest, or truly talented.

[Actuary 3]

I'll be short.Steve,You are probably the most respected person hereI've never seen you stoop or personally attack anyone.You also seem arrogant at times.Like, the times you postThe Forum is what it it's contributers make it

[chgocubs99 0]

Good points. Steve, start posting in the strat forums again! :)Mark

My apologies if that wasn't sarcastic. Surely you can see how I thought it might be.

[NoSup4U 0]

My apologies if that wasn't sarcastic. Surely you can see how I thought it might be.

Oh, maybe I guess. That comment should be taken as me just giving Steve a hard time. I'd love to see him post in strat again. There was nothing mean spirited about it. He is a friend.Mark

[freak2304 0]

I'll just add my 2 cents for whatever it's worth....As someone who spends a big percent of the time in general, I do find it interesting that the ones who complain about General are the ones who hardly spend/contribute any time there. I think that the general forum has been a really great place the past few months, and if you don't want to rail a micro guy at a 4.40 or see a stake topic from someone who'd like to help out/have fun with some fellow FCPers, than I guess the slums of general is not for you.

[Actuary 3]

ok..interesting that perhaps we are seeing some community here in General as they (we ??? ) are defending this forum.how ironic

[checkymcfold 0]

Interesting.A few people hit the nail right on the head here. People form their own cliques. The high limit, or successful, players all talk on AIM or whereever high limit players talk. I remember watching someone post a graph (forgot his name) about how he was won $200K or so over the last year in online cash games, and I couldn't help but wonder, where have you been? I saw Hoosier reply to both that post about how the guy was a stud, as well as a JC post in Strat about level 3 and 4 thinking in a tournament, and I couldn't help but wonder, where have you been? BKice used to be more open but now he's tight lipped, when he's around, which isn't often. Steve never posts about much of anything except for his students or questioning General, like this thread and the time when Brad Booth posted. People like checkymcfold who I know play medium stakes, variety of games, rarely post about such things at all. Is this the way it always used to be? I don't know much about RDog, MSals, Gilbertology, simply because they don't post in General about poker much, or if they do it's nothing of huge "significance" (similar to all my posts, for the record). The only "open" players that plays medium limits or higher that I've seen here are GrinderMJ and Mark .And you know what? I'm OK with all this. This is a place for me to pass the time, and most of the above posters probably are 1) Private people who don't want their games/personalities broadcast for the world to see or 2) Don't want to divulge much information, for fear that educating people will only make their games stronger and the games harder to beat.So what's left? A lot of lower stakes players "paying it forward", a bunch of rail threads, some rules questions, a list of high stakes games going at FTP, and a few other random obvservations. A lot of people that are "friends" doing so in "private (read: AIM, etc) places, or branching out in OT. That's not a big deal, I don't think, it is the natural evolution of a community such as this.When I was listening to Sports radio the other day someone called in to complain that the hosts weren't talking about the White Sox enough. The host said, "Well, you're on the air, what about the White Sox do you want to talk about?" The caller stuttered for a few moments before muttering some nonsense about how that wasn't the point. If you want General to be a "better" place, CONTRIBUTE. Don't whine about the way things are going here when you have done little in the past year to try to rectfiy the situation. If it doesn't matter enough for you to do that, then you probably should not be complaining in the first place.

this is all fair, and probably more right (at least about me) than i'm willing to admit. i do, however--and i can only speak for myself; i don't know the intentions of others--try to post in strat forums as often as possible, but that pretty much limits me to o8 for the time being, as i stopped playing tournaments almost entirely and limit my cash game play to LO8 and 2-7 almost exclusively. and to be honest, most of my posting is restricted to responding to threads others start because i simply don't know what makes an interesting strat thread. every time i play a hand, if i decided to c/r instead of lead on one street, it has more to do with the 100 hands prior than the hand in question, and that makes it really tough to say anything more than "i did this based on a read."honestly, i think doing things like the challenge thread (which has turned into the fellating mark thread, lol) are probably the most helpful things people that do play for a living can do. and i do think they belong in general more than anywhere else. if someone learning poker can identify with the thinking of a talented player in a game and watch how a winning player might think through lots of situations, s/he might be able to find that his/her natural skills lend themselves better to a certain game. i'm probably going to do something similar with o8 after the series (1k into 25k might be a little ambitious for a limit game, but we'll see), but things are just too busy for me right now. things are wrapping up with my first set of students, i have a lot of family stuff to deal with, and i have to make sure i'm mentally prepared for a month of vegas. i'm sure that a lot of others that are gearing up for a lot of poker during the series are in the same sort of boat as well. i wouldn't be surprised if everyone sees general pick back up starting in mid-july.as for steve, though, please don't think that he took on students in an effort to pull people away from FCP. it's totally the opposite--nearly everyone lucky enough to have his help over the last year or so came from FCP, and i'm sure he drew from that pool for a reason. people here, for all their faults (some more than others, coughteddycough ), are extremely dedicated to poker and getting better at the game, and that's 90% of what's required in a student, imho. i'm not sure if general is worse or better than when i joined here during the "brown" days. i feel a bit more distant from FCP probably, but that's largely due to the fact that i'm 10x the player that joined here a few years ago (now if that were only reflected in bankrolls as well, lol). if anything, that some people drift away to other things should reflect well upon the forum, and if people continue to post in online forums even after they've "made it" (not that i have--i'm referring mostly to people like JC and steve) and still care about the place, we should be thankful that they do.god, i ramble g00t.

[TB17 0]

o no a challenge o8 thread? Everyone knows you're one of like 4 people here who can play it for 2 days in a row, much less from 1k to 25k

[finztotheleft 0]

Steve, please don't get too fed up and quit on us !As many here have said, this forum can only be what the members of the community take the time to make it.Could general be a lot better ? You betcha !I think the rail threads (well, the final table ones) and the stakements (an awesome superthread one today) go a long way in developing a sense of community here. Teaming up to ostrasize (? spelling) maxfallon was pure FCP gold. Also.....I've just been thrilled at the decrease in nastiness recently.

[nutzbuster 7]

this is all fair, and probably more right (at least about me) than i'm willing to admit. i do, however--and i can only speak for myself; i don't know the intentions of others--try to post in strat forums as often as possible, but that pretty much limits me to o8 for the time being, as i stopped playing tournaments almost entirely and limit my cash game play to LO8 and 2-7 almost exclusively. and to be honest, most of my posting is restricted to responding to threads others start because i simply don't know what makes an interesting strat thread. every time i play a hand, if i decided to c/r instead of lead on one street, it has more to do with the 100 hands prior than the hand in question, and that makes it really tough to say anything more than "i did this based on a read."honestly, i think doing things like the challenge thread (which has turned into the fellating mark thread, lol) are probably the most helpful things people that do play for a living can do. and i do think they belong in general more than anywhere else. if someone learning poker can identify with the thinking of a talented player in a game and watch how a winning player might think through lots of situations, s/he might be able to find that his/her natural skills lend themselves better to a certain game. i'm probably going to do something similar with o8 after the series (1k into 25k might be a little ambitious for a limit game, but we'll see), but things are just too busy for me right now. things are wrapping up with my first set of students, i have a lot of family stuff to deal with, and i have to make sure i'm mentally prepared for a month of vegas. i'm sure that a lot of others that are gearing up for a lot of poker during the series are in the same sort of boat as well. i wouldn't be surprised if everyone sees general pick back up starting in mid-july.as for steve, though, please don't think that he took on students in an effort to pull people away from FCP. it's totally the opposite--nearly everyone lucky enough to have his help over the last year or so came from FCP, and i'm sure he drew from that pool for a reason. people here, for all their faults (some more than others, coughteddycough ), are extremely dedicated to poker and getting better at the game, and that's 90% of what's required in a student, imho. i'm not sure if general is worse or better than when i joined here during the "brown" days. i feel a bit more distant from FCP probably, but that's largely due to the fact that i'm 10x the player that joined here a few years ago (now if that were only reflected in bankrolls as well, lol). if anything, that some people drift away to other things should reflect well upon the forum, and if people continue to post in online forums even after they've "made it" (not that i have--i'm referring mostly to people like JC and steve) and still care about the place, we should be thankful that they do.god, i ramble g00t.

Blowhard btw, best moment of your rant....

the challenge thread (which has turned into the fellating mark thread, lol)

lmao!! hahahahahahahahahahahaha (breath) hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahah

[CobaltBlue 662]

The only "open" players that plays medium limits or higher that I've seen here are GrinderMJ and Mark.

*cough* Also, Acid_Knight.Okay...so maybe I don't contribute as much as I used to. I think that's a result of finishing my last semester of school. I've been so busy with other stuff that while I carve out a little time to play, I really haven't devoted as much time to lately to discussing and learning. Look for that to change in the next few weeks.Also, as for my experience with the forums...I've mostly stuck to Strat since I got here. I'd come into GenPo every now and browse to see if I found a topic that caught my eye. I still do that today. I probably only read 1/30 threads in here and reply to maybe half of those. The same goes for Off-Topic.Finally, I agree that Daniel seems a little more distant from the community recently, but that may be my inattention/his visiting other circles. And certainly no harshness there. I'd imagine he's been pretty busy lately.

[No_Neck 0]

People come people go, I think Steve you probably just haven't had the time to meet all the new people. General is a lot better than it was last summer......The strat threads are better than they have been since you guys all left.

[rgold79 0]

I find it odd but telling that over 75 posts in this thread only one person who has joined in the past 6 months and who has <1000 posts has contributed. Coming from the perspective of someone who has joined more recently and who has tried to make a contribution I can tell you that it can seem daunting to try to compete for attention or at least at times to get some of the more experienced players on here to notice you and engage in discussion with you constructively.For a while, I thought GenStrat was the place I was looking for all along, but lately I've found it disappointing.I have definitely enjoyed my time here thus far, and I think it's helped me a great deal. I don't know what to tell some of you old-timers about how to bring things back to the way they used to be, but I can tell you that there are plenty of newer members who are looking to make serious contributions and to become a part of the kind of community to which you referred earlier. If this forum means a great deal to you, then the onus of responsibility is on you to weed through the trolls and the empty threads to find these people and help them find their voices.