"mass Chaos In Iraq Will Lead To Mass Chaos Worldwide."

[TylerSalzman 0]

Daniel or anyone I guess, can you back this statement up with anything? There is mass chaos in several countries in the world (mostly in africa) and it doesn't make the rest of the world go into mass chaos. When did the US become the world police? it just makes me sad when I see how crappy our education system is, while we pour billions of dollars into a war that doesn't appear necessary.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

Daniel or anyone I guess, can you back this statement up with anything? There is mass chaos in a lot of countries in the world (mostly in africa) and it doesn't make the rest of the world go into mass chaos. When did the US become the world police? it just makes me sad when I see how crappy our education system is, while we poor billions of dollars into a war that doesn't appear necessary.

So......you criticize how "crappy our education system is" while we "poor billions"......umm.....ok.were did you graduate?You need a rebate.Ignorance is sinful.Ignorance proudfully displayed is something else.

[Oziumrules 0]

I witnessed MASS CHAOS once. The local Burger King ran out of Shrek toys and all hell broke loose.

[davezz5 0]

So......you criticize how "crappy our education system is" while we "poor billions"......umm.....ok.were did you graduate?You need a rebate.Ignorance is sinful.Ignorance proudfully displayed is something else.

He proved his point.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

He proved his point.

To whom?...not me. He revealed himself as semi literate and a walking contradiction. Pretyy funny actually.

[11 to 1 0]

To whom?...not me. He revealed himself as semi literate and a walking contradiction. Pretyy funny actually.

Almost as funny as pretyy. Or you posturing as some sort of grammarian. Had a great poster on the wall when I was in my twenties: "Killing for peace is like f**king for chastity." The idea that "once in we have no choice but to stay" is just ludicrous. Well, it's Viet Nam.And you all know what a great success that was.

[MychCumstien 0]

The idea that "once in we have no choice but to stay" is just ludicrous. Well, it's Viet Nam.

Are you all familiar with the expression "the best defense is a good offense"?If we pull out of Iraq now, where do you think this war is headed? I'll give you a hint, it's not going to magically go away on it's own. If we pull out now or in the near future, Iraq will become "Iran-West" and global terrorism as a whole will rise to higher levels than pre-911. The "war" will simply take a short little hop across the pond, and before you know it, we'll be seeing car bombs (or worse) in down town Manhattan, London, Berlin, etc. The only reason we're not seeing this now is because Iraq is the front line, and we're keeping their heads down over there on their own soil. Once we pull out (it's not a question of "if" but "when" when the Dems take over in 08), we'll have announced to the world and to our enemies that we do not have the stomach for this war, and that we can be "beat". We will have ruined our credibility world wide, and this will only serve to invite more attacks on our own soil.Then what?Now IMO we should never have invaded Iraq in the first place, but at this point it's a moot point. We did (thanks GW F*ing A** clown); we broke their country, and now IMO we do have an obligation to fix it. We've created the chaos we see over there now, and if we fail to fix it, we're going to have much larger "issues" than the education system in this country. By destabilizing Iraq, we've created a power vaccum in the middle east leaving Iran unchecked. Why do you think we're still there? We're fighting Iran in Iraq. If you think Al Qaida is bad now, how much worse do you think it will be for us with Iran backing them after we leave? By the way, they have a huge bank roll, they hate us, and oh yeah, they have a nuclear program? Great! Thanks GW!! for F*ing us right in the A**.Bottom line, the situation in Iraq is terrible, but I don't think we can safely pull out without making things ten times worse for ourselves down the road. My $0.02 anyway.

[TylerSalzman 0]

So......you criticize how "crappy our education system is" while we "poor billions"......umm.....ok.were did you graduate?You need a rebate.Ignorance is sinful.Ignorance proudfully displayed is something else.

my apologies, I wrote it in a big hurry with no proof reading.

[TylerSalzman 0]

To whom?...not me. He revealed himself as semi literate and a walking contradiction. Pretyy funny actually.

happens to the best of us

[TylerSalzman 0]

Are you all familiar with the expression "the best defense is a good offense"?If we pull out of Iraq now, where do you think this war is headed? I'll give you a hint, it's not going to magically go away on it's own. If we pull out now or in the near future, Iraq will become "Iran-West" and global terrorism as a whole will rise to higher levels than pre-911. The "war" will simply take a short little hop across the pond, and before you know it, we'll be seeing car bombs (or worse) in down town Manhattan, London, Berlin, etc. The only reason we're not seeing this now is because Iraq is the front line, and we're keeping their heads down over there on their own soil. Once we pull out (it's not a question of "if" but "when" when the Dems take over in 08), we'll have announced to the world and to our enemies that we do not have the stomach for this war, and that we can be "beat". We will have ruined our credibility world wide, and this will only serve to invite more attacks on our own soil.Then what?Now IMO we should never have invaded Iraq in the first place, but at this point it's a moot point. We did (thanks GW F*ing A** clown); we broke their country, and now IMO we do have an obligation to fix it. We've created the chaos we see over there now, and if we fail to fix it, we're going to have much larger "issues" than the education system in this country. By destabilizing Iraq, we've created a power vaccum in the middle east leaving Iran unchecked. Why do you think we're still there? We're fighting Iran in Iraq. If you think Al Qaida is bad now, how much worse do you think it will be for us with Iran backing them after we leave? By the way, they have a huge bank roll, they hate us, and oh yeah, they have a nuclear program? Great! Thanks GW!! for F*ing us right in the A**.Bottom line, the situation in Iraq is terrible, but I don't think we can safely pull out without making things ten times worse for ourselves down the road. My $0.02 anyway.

Okay, now here are my thoughts. I like daniel and respect his oppinions, but I just feel like this statement was a bit over the top. I can see some benefit of being in Iraq. I've talked to many friends who have served over there and they tell me that bascially by being over there we are easy access to everyone that hates us. Maybe our views just differ on what mass chaos would be worldwide, but I don't see the world going to hell just because one country does. There MIGHT be a few more terrorist acts if we weren't there, but really, what's stopping them from doing them now? We really aren't making arabs/muslims like us more by being there either.

[chrozzo 19]

I witnessed MASS CHAOS once. The local Burger King ran out of Shrek toys and all hell broke loose.

+1

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

happens to the best of us

Apparently.

[Balloon guy 158]

happens to the best of us

[nutzbuster 7]

I witnessed MASS CHAOS once. The local Burger King ran out of Shrek toys and all hell broke loose.

Now there is a World Crisis!And Tyler, this part of "MychCumstien"'s response is all you need to know...

Bottom line, the situation in Iraq is terrible, but I don't think we can safely pull out without making things ten times worse for ourselves down the road.

There just is no way around this. It would be great to just bail out and let that country self destruct. But can you imagine the additional criticism by the world if we run away what we started and just let the whole thing burn to the ground? Can you imagine the level of B S the country would get?Imagine it this way (albeit a ridiculously overly simplistic example)...You and a bunch of your school mates to go out into the woods after school and start a little bonfire. Most of the kids are all for it...a few are a little skeptical "I dunno man" and a few more immediately run away "I'm telling my mom and Dad on you!"So with most of the group still intact and ready to do this, you all go out in the woods, build a little rock enclosure and start the little fire. And it goes fairly well at first ...but then the wind picks up and blows a few sparks out of the rock circle and sure as hell the surrounding grass starts up. Nothing huge but it's obvious you have a situation.Well... now you are all standing back just staring in shock at what is happening. One or 2 of you immediately start gabbing blankets and your own two feet and start vigorously stomping and swatting at the flames in an attempt to keep it all contained.Many in the group panic and run away, while several others are standing close by but only offer shouts of encouragement as you pound the ground with your feeble attempts to keep the fire from spreading. You are having a hell of a time, but now more of the group says "screw this sh*t" and also run away, leaving just a couple of you to deal with the situation. So there you are, relatively alone, exhausted, scared and trying desperately everything in you power to do the right thing and control the unintended chaos you started.The good news is, as bad as the fire is, you ARE having some success keeping the fire from spreading to the rest of the forest.So now I ask you.....If YOU TOO were to just run away and let the fire take care of itself...... what do you think would happen? Especially once your parents find out, and then the entire village finds out that your solution to the problem was not to keep trying to put out he fire, BUT INSTEAD TO RUN AWAY FROM THE FIRE AND HOPE IT PUTS ITSELF OUT!Make sense?The argument is no longer should we have started this fire (war).The argument is what do we NOW do about it and is running away the best option?The answer seems pretty damn clear, don't you agree?Peace. (someday...)

[Balloon guy 158]

Okay, now here are my thoughts. I like daniel and respect his oppinions, but I just feel like this statement was a bit over the top. I can see some benefit of being in Iraq. I've talked to many friends who have served over there and they tell me that bascially by being over there we are easy access to everyone that hates us. Maybe our views just differ on what mass chaos would be worldwide, but I don't see the world going to hell just because one country does. There MIGHT be a few more terrorist acts if we weren't there, but really, what's stopping them from doing them now? We really aren't making arabs/muslims like us more by being there either.

Okay let me try to explain my side.Imagine your sweater is on fire.......just kidding.The reason Iraq is different than most countries has 3 reasons:#1: They have oil, oil is the life blood of world economies. If Japan doesn't get cheap oil they start raising prices to compensate, this creates inflation. Inflation is hard to slow down, but impossible when the underlying reasons are not addressed. But another thing to think about is that oil is a commodity that makes the owner of it rich. Keep that point for later:#2: They are in the middle east. Israel is in the Middle east, they have been attacked 4 times since their founding by their neighbors. They have a no Masada policy, and they have nukes. If the middle east erupts, then it is a very real possiblity that a nuclear exchange happens. Which can easily escalate, easily. Pakistan, Russia, India, Kuzebenistan, etc all in the region all with nukes, many with heavy muslim population. Better to not let the fight get started than to try to stop it after the missles are fired.#3: Iraq is mostly muslim and the regional muslim people are showing themselves to be unable to stop the radical muslims at all. They don't stop the schools from teaching that Jews are less than animals, they don't stop their religious leaders from teaching their kids to strap on bombs and blow up kids, they don't stop their news from showing beheadings and giving al Queda a free airways to say anything they want. Whether the majority of muslims are peace loving or not, they don't stop the bad guys. Now give th bad guys a chance at getting hold of the oil they can do two things: stop the flow, and thus severly hurting many coutries economies. Or worse: sell the oil and get hold of vast billions of dollars. I don't know about you but they're bad enough with their millions they get from Saudi etc. Billions and 9-11 will be a footnote in the history books.So many people are on the "we never should have gone to war, but now we have to make the best we can do" camp.The only people really saying let's just leave are not thinking it through, or are evil. No way you can really be serious and say let's let them work it out.And as far as our troops attracting the people that hate us, that is a good thing. I would much rather have a well armed marine division facing terrorist, then an embassy worker in Nigeria, or a stock trader in New York, or a poker player in Vegas. Too bad they won't all line up and let us shoot them all and then come home.

[Pot Odds RAC 23]

And as far as our troops attracting the people that hate us, that is a good thing. I would much rather have a well armed marine division facing terrorist, then an embassy worker in Nigeria, or a stock trader in New York, or a poker player in Vegas. Too bad they won't all line up and let us shoot them all and then come home.

[kirbynator 0]

You fail, gj.

[akoff 0]

Okay let me try to explain my side.Imagine your sweater is on fire.......just kidding.The reason Iraq is different than most countries has 3 reasons:#1: They have oil, oil is the life blood of world economies. If Japan doesn't get cheap oil they start raising prices to compensate, this creates inflation. Inflation is hard to slow down, but impossible when the underlying reasons are not addressed. But another thing to think about is that oil is a commodity that makes the owner of it rich. Keep that point for later:#2: They are in the middle east. Israel is in the Middle east, they have been attacked 4 times since their founding by their neighbors. They have a no Masada policy, and they have nukes. If the middle east erupts, then it is a very real possiblity that a nuclear exchange happens. Which can easily escalate, easily. Pakistan, Russia, India, Kuzebenistan, etc all in the region all with nukes, many with heavy muslim population. Better to not let the fight get started than to try to stop it after the missles are fired.#3: Iraq is mostly muslim and the regional muslim people are showing themselves to be unable to stop the radical muslims at all. They don't stop the schools from teaching that Jews are less than animals, they don't stop their religious leaders from teaching their kids to strap on bombs and blow up kids, they don't stop their news from showing beheadings and giving al Queda a free airways to say anything they want. Whether the majority of muslims are peace loving or not, they don't stop the bad guys. Now give th bad guys a chance at getting hold of the oil they can do two things: stop the flow, and thus severly hurting many coutries economies. Or worse: sell the oil and get hold of vast billions of dollars. I don't know about you but they're bad enough with their millions they get from Saudi etc. Billions and 9-11 will be a footnote in the history books.So many people are on the "we never should have gone to war, but now we have to make the best we can do" camp.The only people really saying let's just leave are not thinking it through, or are evil. No way you can really be serious and say let's let them work it out.And as far as our troops attracting the people that hate us, that is a good thing. I would much rather have a well armed marine division facing terrorist, then an embassy worker in Nigeria, or a stock trader in New York, or a poker player in Vegas. Too bad they won't all line up and let us shoot them all and then come home.

well said!

[nutzbuster 7]

Okay let me try to explain my side.Imagine your sweater is on fire.......just kidding.

Bawahaaaaaa!!!!

[chrozzo 19]

politics aside...IM FOR THE TROOPS!!!!!!

[All_In 0]

Now there is a World Crisis!And Tyler, this part of "MychCumstien"'s response is all you need to know...There just is no way around this. It would be great to just bail out and let that country self destruct. But can you imagine the additional criticism by the world if we run away what we started and just let the whole thing burn to the ground? Can you imagine the level of B S the country would get?Imagine it this way (albeit a ridiculously overly simplistic example)...You and a bunch of your school mates to go out into the woods after school and start a little bonfire. Most of the kids are all for it...a few are a little skeptical "I dunno man" and a few more immediately run away "I'm telling my mom and Dad on you!"So with most of the group still intact and ready to do this, you all go out in the woods, build a little rock enclosure and start the little fire. And it goes fairly well at first ...but then the wind picks up and blows a few sparks out of the rock circle and sure as hell the surrounding grass starts up. Nothing huge but it's obvious you have a situation.Well... now you are all standing back just staring in shock at what is happening. One or 2 of you immediately start gabbing blankets and your own two feet and start vigorously stomping and swatting at the flames in an attempt to keep it all contained.Many in the group panic and run away, while several others are standing close by but only offer shouts of encouragement as you pound the ground with your feeble attempts to keep the fire from spreading. You are having a hell of a time, but now more of the group says "screw this sh*t" and also run away, leaving just a couple of you to deal with the situation. So there you are, relatively alone, exhausted, scared and trying desperately everything in you power to do the right thing and control the unintended chaos you started.The good news is, as bad as the fire is, you ARE having some success keeping the fire from spreading to the rest of the forest.So now I ask you.....If YOU TOO were to just run away and let the fire take care of itself...... what do you think would happen? Especially once your parents find out, and then the entire village finds out that your solution to the problem was not to keep trying to put out he fire, BUT INSTEAD TO RUN AWAY FROM THE FIRE AND HOPE IT PUTS ITSELF OUT!Make sense?The argument is no longer should we have started this fire (war).The argument is what do we NOW do about it and is running away the best option?The answer seems pretty damn clear, don't you agree?Peace. (someday...)

but in your case the fire is not saying, 'leave us alone and we will leave u alone.'and a lot of iraqis themselves say that the US needs to get out. it's a tough call. all the more reason to have never gone in in the first place. bush and his admin should seriously be put up on charges.

[ezelisk 0]

Ok, I don't know WHY we are getting off the topic of the most important part in this war. I want to clear this up for everyone so no chaos occurs within the states.BURGER KING HAS SHREK TOYS! KiddingThe fact of the matter that we went into Iraq should not be the main focus of reasoning why we should/shouldn't stay in Iraq. I understand that some people think that if it was wrong then, it should be wrong now. I also hear the idea of the president getting bad information as well as the people who approved the move. HOWEVER, when someone delivers mail to your house, do you scold them for the bills you get? That is my point. The intel on this thing was messed up past him. He was not the one gaining information on Iraq and the possibilities of weapons of mass destruction. To a point he should be held accountable for whatever injustice he has done (if he has done any), but don't use one person as a scapegoat for all the kinks in the situation. Even though the intelligence was not on target, do I still agree we should have gone in the first place? Yes. Especially when we found very strong evidence of the leader using chemical warfare on his own people. I feel that it was necessary to move him out of power and try to establish a democracy. Now the main reason for my argument on this would be the following: What two countrires who were truely a democracy have ever fought in a war against each other?The one thing I will say about this is that we are, only in my opinion and with respect to every ranking official above myself in every branch, not fighting the war to win it. We ARE fighting to sustain and defend, not to attack. Our goal now is NOT to win the war on terror, because it is a war that would last an extremely long time with an extremely high ratio of casualties and would cost an extremely enormous amount of money. We are working with Iraq to build up their military. We are trying to get them on their own feet to become a great country. Troops in Iraq want to see them succeed, no matter what anyone else says. This time we want to get the job done the right way. Last time we were taken out when we shouldn't have been. This time we have a chance to finish the job we started. Semper Fi,Eric Z.

[Scanner313 0]

We went in, kicked out Saddam, everything went to hell. We have a moral and political obligation to stay as long as it takes to secure Iraq to a point where they can maintain security on their own. But we need to have a plan to ensure this happens sometime during our lifetime.That's it, and that's all.

[aucu 3]

Iraq is a classic case of "You Break It, You Buy It"Gota fix it up B4 pulling out, the only real question left is how or even if it's possible.

[Muck, You Suckers! 0]

Iraq is a classic case of "You Break It, You Buy It"Gota fix it up B4 pulling out, the only real question left is how or even if it's possible.

It wasn't that great before we went in. In fact, the whole country was a nasty dump even before we bombed it in the first gulf war. Those people lived under oppression way before Saddam came along. It's all they have ever known. Now we expect them to live in democracy and take responsibilty for themselves. Like most middle eastern countries, their whole culture is based on oppression, violence, and being dictated over. They don't have a clue what to do or how to handle their new found freedoms, so they revert back to the violence that has been a part of their culture for hundreds of years. As far as rebuilding, we may be overdoing it with all the billions we are putting into their schools, public works, and businesses. It wasn't that great before, so it's like installing a crystal chandelier out in the barn. No ones ever going to see it, it's never going to be that useful, and it's not going to impress the animals. To expect that Iraq is ever going to be the democratic garden spot of the Middle East is foolish. I do however support and pray for every man and woman serving their countries in Iraq. They are doing an outstanding job, considering the political BS that limits their ability to quell the insurgency and stop the inflow of arms and terrorists.