A New Bible?

[Jayray 0]

Hello All,Let me start by saying that I am a believer, but have many questions as to whether or not the Bible is actually the word of God....I began this topic with my family, but was quickly told that I am completely wrong to question the Bible and that " the devil is working in me to discourage believers"...bla bla bla....Anyway...on the Bible.....it is widely believed that the Bible was written by 60+ authors that were "inspired" by God.....what would happen today if 60 guys got together and wrote a book, and then told the world that they were "inspired" by God? We would think that they were nuts right? Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying that everything in the bible is nuts....but can anyone honestly believe that everything in there is absolute? I agree with using the parables and so forth as lessons to live life by, but some of the other topics seem to be potentially influenced by those that wrote it, not God....Thoughts?Jayray

[hblask 1]

Hello All,Let me start by saying that I am a believer, but have many questions as to whether or not the Bible is actually the word of God....I began this topic with my family, but was quickly told that I am completely wrong to question the Bible and that " the devil is working in me to discourage believers"...bla bla bla....Anyway...on the Bible.....it is widely believed that the Bible was written by 60+ authors that were "inspired" by God.....what would happen today if 60 guys got together and wrote a book, and then told the world that they were "inspired" by God? We would think that they were nuts right? Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying that everything in the bible is nuts....but can anyone honestly believe that everything in there is absolute? I agree with using the parables and so forth as lessons to live life by, but some of the other topics seem to be potentially influenced by those that wrote it, not God....Thoughts?Jayray

This is what the Mormons did and what L. Ron Hubbard did, so we have modern examples. What do you think of them?

[jmkiser 0]

Hello All,Let me start by saying that I am a believer, but have many questions as to whether or not the Bible is actually the word of God....I began this topic with my family, but was quickly told that I am completely wrong to question the Bible and that " the devil is working in me to discourage believers"...bla bla bla....Anyway...on the Bible.....it is widely believed that the Bible was written by 60+ authors that were "inspired" by God.....what would happen today if 60 guys got together and wrote a book, and then told the world that they were "inspired" by God? We would think that they were nuts right? Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying that everything in the bible is nuts....but can anyone honestly believe that everything in there is absolute? I agree with using the parables and so forth as lessons to live life by, but some of the other topics seem to be potentially influenced by those that wrote it, not God....Thoughts?Jayray

Have you actually read the full Bible in detail? I would even go as far to say the Bible is not a good moral guide except for the certain parts that modern day Christians love to pick it. Ask yourself who has been stoned lately and you'll realize who the real Christians are.Point being, though, there is no strong consensus on the Bible among Christians. This is why you have 23894239487234928347234 sects in the religion itself. And then if you're just talking about the God of Abraham, you've got Judaism, Islam, & Catholicism (if you're Lois and don't count that as a part of Christianity).The religion loves to harp on the accuracy of the Bible, yet for some reason, no one can seem to agree on what it's saying. Why? Because the Bible taken literally would bring us back into the Dark Ages. Read Leviticus sometime... and then hear the all of the different Christian excuses as to why some of it doesn't apply and some of it does. The number one answer would be "It's in the old testament!!!"... Anyway, I'm getting off track.You're right and fine to question the validity of something. The Bible is open to that same criticism. In fact, you'll be better off if you do. Read the Bible for yourself and tell us what YOU think. Take notes, compare chapters... don't take the easy route and use Christians to tell you what they "think it means".

[coesillian 0]

well the bible was put together by the church to say what they wanted it to say. They chose the gospels that made the cut. Dn was offereing to ship a book about the validity of the bible you might find interesting, Lee Strobel "A cas for Christ" it was a an interesting read on wheter or not this Jesus story has merit, it would strenghten your belief. Then go get some Dawkins and everything will be put into question again.

[renaedawn 1]

This is what the Mormons did and what L. Ron Hubbard did, so we have modern examples. What do you think of them?

Apparently we wouldn't all think they're crazy since the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the wealthiest church per capita in America.

[crowTrobot 2]

Ask yourself who has been stoned lately and you'll realize who the real Christians are.

well it does help you see god, i guess

[crowTrobot 2]

Apparently we wouldn't all think they're crazy since the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is the wealthiest church per capita in America.

no crazier than any other fundamentalists anyway. mormonism, scientiology, islam, christianity, pretty much all equally delusional.

[Jayray 0]

I am reading "A Case for Christ"...and Daniel did send it to me....it just seems that most of the arguments are based on the Bible...so I am struggling a bit....it is a bit of a circular argument, right? To justify the validity of something by quoting the item that needs validating?....I don't know...I am just struggling a little and was looking for some perspective....

[jmkiser 0]

well it does help you see god, i guess

lol, I actually meant stoned as in "rock" and not "weed" hahaha

[renaedawn 1]

I am reading "A Case for Christ"...and Daniel did send it to me....it just seems that most of the arguments are based on the Bible...so I am struggling a bit....it is a bit of a circular argument, right? To justify the validity of something by quoting the item that needs validating?....I don't know...I am just struggling a little and was looking for some perspective....

BINGO.Someone buy this man a beer.

[crowTrobot 2]

I am reading "A Case for Christ"...and Daniel did send it to me....it just seems that most of the arguments are based on the Bible...so I am struggling a bit....it is a bit of a circular argument, right? To justify the validity of something by quoting the item that needs validating?....I don't know...I am just struggling a little and was looking for some perspective....

the WHOLE BOOK is nonsensical circular philosophical arguments being passed off as empirical arguments for the sake of propaganda (to make money off the ignorant).

[11 to 1 0]

Anyway...on the Bible.....it is widely believed that the Bible was written by 60+ authors that were "inspired" by God.....what would happen today if 60 guys got together and wrote a book, and then told the world that they were "inspired" by God? Jayray

This is what the book Conversations with God is. There are more books like it. Why don't you read it and see what you think?

[jmkiser 0]

I am reading "A Case for Christ"...and Daniel did send it to me....it just seems that most of the arguments are based on the Bible...so I am struggling a bit....it is a bit of a circular argument, right? To justify the validity of something by quoting the item that needs validating?....I don't know...I am just struggling a little and was looking for some perspective....

I am reading "A Case for Christ"...and Daniel did send it to me....it just seems that most of the arguments are based on the Bible...so I am struggling a bit....it is a bit of a circular argument, right? To justify the validity of something by quoting the item that needs validating?....I don't know...I am just struggling a little and was looking for some perspective....

okthe basis on the religion you are looking at comes down to faithif you're going to critically ask questions about the Bible, you're not going to get logical answers.Which, apparently, is ok because you're talking about a being that is unfathomable by human imagination anywayAll of discussion comes down to this, you just have to feel it's true. If you don't feel that it's inanely true, then (by Christian terms) you don't "get it".Asking logical questions and expecting logical answers will only weaken your faith. Which by my standards, is perfectly fine. But if you're not looking to be drawn away from your religion, then it's best not to ask questions on the validity of what you're reading ;)As I'm sure you've heard, god is based on faith. We have no evidence that god exists. We, actually, have evidence of the contrary that what we currently know in existance has no need of help from an outside force. If you're in a phase where you are just searching for meaning in life, I suggest you study evolution of life on this planet. It brings me awe and wonder to the way things have come about. Also, the history of growth of science. It gives me that wonderful fuzzy hopeful feeling that Christianity used to... that feeling like we have a purpose. Every new discovery and age-old question that gets answered excites me. I look forward to how much we'll know about ourselves in the near future.But again, as a believer, asking critical logical questions against Christianity will only do your faith harm. If you're looking to strengthen your faith, then you need to just believe. Go to your local church and hang on to your pastor's every word. Read some Christian propaganda and let it guide your train of thought instead of you guiding your own. You'll be on that same path to blind faith just as your family is. You'll learn not to question the validity of god. And not to question what is written in the Bible. And to be a minion of his truly (minion, soldier, servant, w/e).

[brvheart 1,752]

Hello All,Let me start by saying that I am a believer, but have many questions as to whether or not the Bible is actually the word of God....I began this topic with my family, but was quickly told that I am completely wrong to question the Bible and that " the devil is working in me to discourage believers"...bla bla bla....Anyway...on the Bible.....it is widely believed that the Bible was written by 60+ authors that were "inspired" by God.....what would happen today if 60 guys got together and wrote a book, and then told the world that they were "inspired" by God? We would think that they were nuts right? Now don't get me wrong, I am not saying that everything in the bible is nuts....but can anyone honestly believe that everything in there is absolute? I agree with using the parables and so forth as lessons to live life by, but some of the other topics seem to be potentially influenced by those that wrote it, not God....Thoughts?Jayray

My thoughts are that poker players are probably not the best 'theologians' to speak with about this. But, I personally believe that the Bible is the infallible word of God, and can be used for training and correcting in righteousness. If God was involved he could make it 'infallible without any trouble, and the reason that I would quickly reject a 'new' Bible, eg. the book of mormon, or dianetics, is because the Bible tells me that I don't need to look anywhere else for truth.

[hblask 1]

If you're in a phase where you are just searching for meaning in life, I suggest you study evolution of life on this planet. It brings me awe and wonder to the way things have come about. Also, the history of growth of science. It gives me that wonderful fuzzy hopeful feeling that Christianity used to... that feeling like we have a purpose. Every new discovery and age-old question that gets answered excites me. I look forward to how much we'll know about ourselves in the near future.

Definitely Doppleganger material..(and yeah, I saw the post over there, but thought it would make a better response here)

[brvheart 1,752]

Have you actually read the full Bible in detail? I would even go as far to say the Bible is not a good moral guide except for the certain parts that modern day Christians love to pick it. Ask yourself who has been stoned lately and you'll realize who the real Christians are.

It's clear that you haven't. Stoning people has nothing to do with Christianity. Perhaps you are thinking of Judaism.

Point being, though, there is no strong consensus on the Bible among Christians.

This is laughably incorrect. Nearly all leadership of nearly every Christian denomination believes that the Bible is the word of God. hint: The Universal Unitarian church is not a Christian denomination.

This is why you have 23894239487234928347234 sects in the religion itself.

No, different interpretations cause divisions. It is an application issue, not a problem with the validity of the Bible.

And then if you're just talking about the God of Abraham, you've got Judaism, Islam, & Catholicism (if you're Lois and don't count that as a part of Christianity).

Actually Lois believes that anyone not a member of his specific church will be going to hell. Even if they attend a Bible believing church, believe that Jesus died for them, and they were baptized, like me. Of course, he's totally incorrect, and it's a little sad that he's so delusional about that issue. But oh well, the blood of Jesus will cover his sin and mine and we will both be in heaven someday, because of the amazing love of God.

The religion loves to harp on the accuracy of the Bible, yet for some reason, no one can seem to agree on what it's saying. Why? Because the Bible taken literally would bring us back into the Dark Ages. Read Leviticus sometime... and then hear the all of the different Christian excuses as to why some of it doesn't apply and some of it does. The number one answer would be "It's in the old testament!!!"...

You obviously have no idea what you're talking about and should actually try to understand. The old testament is not Christianity. It's not that hard. You talk as if you think your smart... I would think you could figure this extremely simple concept out. Before Jesus was born... THE OLD TESTAMENT... Christianity didn't exist. After Jesus was born, THE NEW TESTAMENT... the old law was fulfilled. Levitical laws are completely unimportant to the Christian. You are the one, among other idiots here, that continually bring this up as if your 'getting' us... while instead just making yourself look like a complete fool.

[brvheart 1,752]

You're right and fine to question the validity of something. The Bible is open to that same criticism. In fact, you'll be better off if you do. Read the Bible for yourself and tell us what YOU think. Take notes, compare chapters... don't take the easy route and use Christians to tell you what they "think it means".

I agree with this part.

[jmkiser 0]

It's clear that you haven't. Stoning people has nothing to do with Christianity. Perhaps you are thinking of Judaism.there are plenty of theologians that would disagree with you... this is the division in your own religion that I'm talking about. This is laughably incorrect. Nearly all leadership of nearly every Christian denomination believes that the Bible is the word of God.WOW that tells me everything... OF COURSE, they all believe it's word of god... that doesn't say anything... it is very laughable if that is the only thing that every sect agrees on hint: The Universal Unitarian church is not a Christian denomination. No, different interpretations cause divisions. It is an application issue, not a problem with the validity of the Bible.Application issues is the whole point. Christians as a whole can't even tell me a collective answer on the purpose of the Bible let alone the meaning. And as I have shown, to take the entire Bible literally would be a joke in itself.Actually Lois believes that anyone not a member of his specific church will be going to hell. Even if they attend a Bible believing church, believe that Jesus died for them, and they were baptized, like me. Of course, he's totally incorrect, and it's a little sad that he's so delusional about that issue. But oh well, the blood of Jesus will cover his sin and mine and we will both be in heaven someday, because of the amazing love of God.And Lois claims to be a Christian... and you disagree with him... so between you two, we have learned nothing about the meaning of life. Thanks guys You obviously have no idea what you're talking about and should actually try to understand. The old testament is not Christianity. It's not that hard. You talk as if you think your smart... I would think you could figure this extremely simple concept out. Before Jesus was born... THE OLD TESTAMENT... Christianity didn't exist. After Jesus was born, THE NEW TESTAMENT... the old law was fulfilled. Levitical laws are completely unimportant to the Christian. You are the one, among other idiots here, that continually bring this up as if your 'getting' us... while instead just making yourself look like a complete fool.Ooohhh now with the insults... yessss YESSSS SHOW ME YOUR HATRED!!! somethingsomethignsomethign and you join the dark side lolPoint being, every claim you make is desputable by other Christians. Especially regarding the Old Testament.

[brvheart 1,752]

"there are plenty of theologians that would disagree with you... this is the division in your own religion that I'm talking about."Name ANY theologian, since their are plenty... that think that stoning people has anything to do with Christianity. *crickets*"Application issues is the whole point. Christians as a whole can't even tell me a collective answer on the purpose of the Bible let alone the meaning. And as I have shown, to take the entire Bible literally would be a joke in itself."You haven't 'shown' anything. What 'meaning' are you talking about? I'm totally confused at what you're even trying to rip on in these sentences. The Bible is God's word to us. The gist of the gospel is that we are sinners, Jesus died for us, and if we believe in him we will have eternal life. All the other differences, which prevent an unimportant 'collective answer', are irrelevant. None of the other stuff has anything to do with salvation."And Lois claims to be a Christian... and you disagree with him... so between you two, we have learned nothing about the meaning of life. Thanks guys"I don't disagree with Lois that he is a Christian. He has professed and believes that Jesus died for him. That's all it takes. We never said that we were telling you the meaning of life... I have no idea what you're talking about again. The only thing I disagree with Lois on is that I, myself, am a Christian. I believe that Jesus died for me, so I am saved. Lois somehow thinks that after that, I need to read the correct translation (that wasn't even available until 1500 AD), AND I need to attend his particular church in order to be a Christian. He also believes that even though I have been baptized, since I don't think that the actual baptism saved me instead of Jesus, that my baptism was worthless. On these subjects we completely disagree. The Bible doesn't support those ideas and neither do I."Ooohhh now with the insults... yessss YESSSS SHOW ME YOUR HATRED!!! somethingsomethignsomethign and you join the dark side lol"I am not a fan of your style of debate. You constantly berate Lois, and there is no reason for it. It makes you look like a huge a-hole and no one listens to you."Point being, every claim you make is desputable by other Christians. Especially regarding the Old Testament."I would like you to point me in the direction of these 'other' Christians, so I can explain to them how they don't understand anything that Jesus says in John 3. Also, no matter the subject, I can find 'other' opinions on the issue, since 'other' only needs to be 1 out of a billion people. 'Other' makes no difference. I and others on this board are not talking about the same group when we say Christian as you are. There are plenty of people that call themselves 'christians' who don't go to church and don't care or even thinking about God... ever. When I say 'Christian' I am talking about the born again Christian who believes what Jesus says in John 3 and takes it seriously. The FAR majority of 'christians' as you would say, don't ever read the bible, could care less about Jesus or God's will for their lives, and know NOTHING about what the bible says. These people are not Christians and can be quickly ignored. I'm assuming that you will not understand this concept and therefore will continue to deride Lois and I due to your misunderstanding basic truths. That's fine, but just understand in advance that you are totally not 'getting it'. Now in regards to the Old Testament, since the majority of 'christians' know nothing about the bible at all, they will have nothing to say... but we can ask their leaders. Please name ONE christian denomination that has in their doctrine that Jesus did NOT fulfill the Old Testament laws therefore rendering them moot. *crickets*

[chrisuk_sw 0]

Hello Jayray, thanks for the time and thoughts. I feel the place where you are coming from, despite not being a believer. How about this: imagine that the 60 guys in your scenario were around today, having access to all that we had learned and discovered in the 2000 years since their times. Would they write exactly the same bible? I don't think they would. The only thing I know for sure is that I don't know everything. For that reason, I can't bring myself to believe anyone or anything that says that they definitely do know everything. Aren't they're lying? either to me, or to themselves?

[jmkiser 0]

Brvheart, regarding Lois (and myself for that matter), I don't wildly attack people. I am sarcastic, yes, but I am a polite human being to others. I lost that respect for Lois when I started on these forums sharing my opinion. The names and labels were thrown by him on me during my first few religion forums posts and it's all gone downhill with him since then. I also never claimed that you didn't think Lois was a Christian. Reread what I said buddy. I said Lois claims he's a Christian... and then I claimed that you disagree with him (his views, not his Christianity). The point I was making is that for the tons of Christian sects, there are few ideals that are claimed the same overall.Your wishy-washy views of the few things you claimed being needed to be a Christian do not cover the entire religion. First, there are plenty of Christians that believe you need to do a lot more then you claim to be in the kingdom of heaven. There are also plenty of Christians who think you just need to lead a good life (one represented by the acts of Jesus) to get into the kingdom of heaven. You don't speak for the religion with the claims you make.There are also many sects that observe the Old Testament much more then you do.I'm omw to the pool hall, but I can come back and observe specifics later.

[Loismustdie 0]

Brvheart, regarding Lois (and myself for that matter), I don't wildly attack people. I am sarcastic, yes, but I am a polite human being to others. I lost that respect for Lois when I started on these forums sharing my opinion. The names and labels were thrown by him on me during my first few religion forums posts and it's all gone downhill with him since then. I also never claimed that you didn't think Lois was a Christian. Reread what I said buddy. I said Lois claims he's a Christian... and then I claimed that you disagree with him (his views, not his Christianity). The point I was making is that for the tons of Christian sects, there are few ideals that are claimed the same overall.Your wishy-washy views of the few things you claimed being needed to be a Christian do not cover the entire religion. First, there are plenty of Christians that believe you need to do a lot more then you claim to be in the kingdom of heaven. There are also plenty of Christians who think you just need to lead a good life (one represented by the acts of Jesus) to get into the kingdom of heaven. You don't speak for the religion with the claims you make.There are also many sects that observe the Old Testament much more then you do.I'm omw to the pool hall, but I can come back and observe specifics later.

Yeah, you're a real peach. A whole bottle of sunshine. Sure, I labeled you. Quickly,too. I am good judge of character like that. Labeling people is not wrong if the label is what that person is, lor at least what they are representing themselvs to be on the internet.

[jmkiser 0]

Yeah, you're a real peach. A whole bottle of sunshine. Sure, I labeled you. Quickly,too. I am good judge of character like that. Labeling people is not wrong if the label is what that person is, lor at least what they are representing themselvs to be on the internet.

Hmm, ok, Lois. Especially that part where you labeled me a _______ing liberal. Oh yeah, I remember that one. How could I forget? Calling a Libertarian a ______ing liberal? LOL you sure did peg me there

[Jadaki 0]

Yeah, you're a real peach. A whole bottle of sunshine. Sure, I labeled you. Quickly,too. I am good judge of character like that. Labeling people is not wrong if the label is what that person is, lor at least what they are representing themselvs to be on the internet.

Judge not, lest ye be judged...or something like that right?

[Zeatrix 0]

Yeah, you're a real peach. A whole bottle of sunshine. Sure, I labeled you. Quickly,too. I am good judge of character like that. Labeling people is not wrong if the label is what that person is, lor at least what they are representing themselvs to be on the internet.

Ok, you are insane and should be in a mental institution.