I Shall Live Blog

[iowahawk09 0]

lots of superficial, simple-minded, short-term oriented views being expressed here (and as usual by DN).in truth unless we plan to have a significant permenant military presence there (which seems to be pretty much the plan), being there now is only delaying the inevitable. whatever is going to happen with political/social divisions in the region will happen no matter what. a temporary US military presence of any length is NOT going to facilitate long-term stability - due to the fundamentalist nature of the conflict. we need to get out now and let history take its course. and even if/when the US military officially leaves there will still be a large-scale mercenary force that will be a stabilizing factor to some extent.staying is short-sighted and accomplishes less than nothing - except for protecting the interests of big business. there is nothing that would be better for long-term general US interests, stability in the middle east, and *reduction of terrorism* than if the US stopped throwing money at the war and thew it instead at subsidising WHATEVER MEANS NECESSARY that would break US dependence on middle east oil and transitioning to alternate fuel sources - and got out of the region *permenantly*. if we got serious about this and did it all at once it would cost LESS than the war has so far.the bush administration is currently doing nothing less that mortgaging the future stability of our enomony to secure current big business oil and defense contract interests - against the WILL of the people as shown by both public polls and majority of congress. this should be grounds for impeachment.

I disagree with just about everything you wrote except for the need to break our dependence on Middle East oil, which we do need to see happen. I have already went into great detail about the war and reasons for it, so I'm not going to write a big long article again, but there are many reasons we NEED to be there. I have many criticisms of the war and how our government has handled it, so I'm not being narrowminded, just realistic. Most people seem to like to focus on everything negative the war is bringing, *debt, loss of life, time, resources*, and while these are all things we wish could be avoided, they simply cant be avoided in a situation like this. But does that lessen our need or motives for being there? No it doesnt, and it cant. The fallout of a complete pullout of Iraq and "letting history taking its course" as you like to call it would be chaotic and catastrophic.Let me ask you this, should we have just avoided Hitler and the Holocaust that was happening before us and just let "history take its course??? I'm assuming your answer is no. As one of the last superpowers in the world with the monetary and military means to do so, we have a duty and a responsibility to protect the innocent and make sure that they are safe and not discriminated, persecuted, threatened, killed, etc. That is exactly what is/was happening in Iraq. A dictator killing his own people has been removed, a terrorist regime that has killed thousands of innocent people is being captured and or killed, and a country whose people had no political clout is finally beginning to get a voice in deciding their future.Yes violence among religious groups has increased and there are still tons of insurgents and terrorists in Iraq and in surrounding countries, but we cannot simply pack it up and leave all of those we have protected the last 4 years. What kind of message would we send to the Iraqi people, to the terrorists around the world? If the going gets tough, or we dont have immediate success we are just going to give up and let history take its course? Plllllleeeeeassssseee.

[iowahawk09 0]

We can debate why we went to war and we can debate why we have lost this war, but the idea that we should stick around in Iraq until we get the job done is crazy. That is the EXACT SAME argument the US Govt. used in Vietnam when public opinion turned against the war. DN- please reexamine your position on this one. The country is already in chaos. Chaos in iraq will not spread to the rest of the world if we leave. The Sunni dominated ME countries have a vested interest in keeping a non-secular Iran/Iraq in check. Let's get the hell out of there and see what happends. No more american boys and girls need to die over there in pursuit of some "pipe dream" of spreading democracy to a part of the world that never wanted democracy in the first place.

Do not EVER compare this to Vietnam, because this is nothing like that war and to use what happened in Vietnam as reasoning to pull out of Iraq is just ignorant. Oh so we should just let the Sunni's take over and continue to kill their adversaries at will while "keeping Iraq/Iran in check" Good plan.......You clearly know nothing about why we are in this war, and the US has no interest in imposing their form of government on anyone. They are simply willing to help establish a form of government where people can have a say in their future. The majority of Iraqi's wanted this when we went to war.Please take your Vietnam arguments to a different thread, because they mean nothing here.

[Balloon guy 158]

spoken like a true soldier sheep.making a diff? smiling children? lol. core???

Piece of advice....You ever call an American soldier a sheep again, make sure you are hiding behind your internet, because in real life you would get your puny pathetic Canadian teeth knocked down your pathetic loser mouth.Now go back to nipping at the heals of your betters.Loser

[Balloon guy 158]

I was, though a few homos and a little drugs never hurt anyone.

Tell that to Freddy Mercury

[GrouchPotato 0]

Do not EVER compare this to Vietnam, because this is nothing like that war and to use what happened in Vietnam as reasoning to pull out of Iraq is just ignorant. Oh so we should just let the Sunni's take over and continue to kill their adversaries at will while "keeping Iraq/Iran in check" Good plan.......You clearly know nothing about why we are in this war, and the US has no interest in imposing their form of government on anyone. They are simply willing to help establish a form of government where people can have a say in their future. The majority of Iraqi's wanted this when we went to war.Please take your Vietnam arguments to a different thread, because they mean nothing here.

I agree that the war in Vietnam is different that the war in Iraq, but the stay the course arguments used by the Johnson administration and the Bush administration are the same. Sunnis won't take over, they will just stop Shias from taking over. that is what "in check" means. The majority of Iraqi's wanted a US led occupation that can't protect them from mass suicide bombings and an impending civil war? right. You strike me as a typical, red state republican type. Loud, wrong, and of course, wrong.

[Zeatrix 0]

What I do love is Liberal Europeans who have all the answers and no way to implement them and no way to pay for them (much like our Democrats)…I would dearly love not to need to patrol the world and spend uncountable billions of dollars on others….the unfortunate reality is the worlds oil supply needs to be protected and while doing that if some poor oppressed people get help…so be it. It is not just for the protection of the US, all of our economies are tied together. We just happen to have the biggest piece of it. We also pay the biggest part of the expense.

Here goes the European liberal bash again. Ignorance is bliss right?But on to my main objection: If this war was needed to secure oil why in the world didn't we have a oil supply problem before the war? Last time I checked the three countries that produce most oil i Saudi Arabia, Russia and USA. Neither of those countries have an issue with the US to the extent that oil supply would be a problem. The way to solve oil dependence is to move away from oil as a main source of energy, not invade other sovereign countries.Some of you (far from all) seem to not realize that you have put yourself in this situation with a lot of American hate. You don't need to police the world and because you do it you have ended up in this situation. I think you realize that citizens of other countries don't like you poking around as much as you do, you wouldn't either. If the EU for some absurd reason decided to start helping Cuba and Venezuela and started interfering with your domestic problems you sure would start hating us in no time. Just for once, try to look at your actions from someone else's point of view, try to understand what they might feel. Sure you feel extremely strongly that free market capitalism and low government intervention is the best system and you prove it by showing what great economic figures you have, GDP and so on. First of all, the US, per capita, doesn't have the highest GDP of the world countries. Secondly, the EU GDP is higher than the US. Thirdly GDP does not in any way take into effect standards of living, happiness and such abstract concepts. Finally who's got the biggest GDP is as irrelevant as who's got the biggest penis. Each nation choose the system they feel works best for them and seldom can you clearly say that one system is better than another. You get one thing right our economies are tied together, neither can survive without the other in the sense that we could maintain our standard of living. So please, get off your horse and look at it in a mature way.

[Zeatrix 0]

Tell that to Freddy Mercury

Yes only homosexuals get AIDS!

[Janfor99 0]

Piece of advice....You ever call an American soldier a sheep again, make sure you are hiding behind your internet, because in real life you would get your puny pathetic (edited) teeth knocked down your pathetic loser mouth.Loser

[Zeatrix 0]

Piece of advice....You ever call an American soldier a sheep again, make sure you are hiding behind your internet, because in real life you would get your puny pathetic Canadian teeth knocked down your pathetic loser mouth.Now go back to nipping at the heals of your betters.Loser

Watch out, you might hurt yourself pounding your chest that hard!

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Tell that to Freddy Mercury

.... too soon.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

Do not EVER compare this to Vietnam, because this is nothing like that war and to use what happened in Vietnam as reasoning to pull out of Iraq is just ignorant. Oh so we should just let the Sunni's take over and continue to kill their adversaries at will while "keeping Iraq/Iran in check" Good plan.......You clearly know nothing about why we are in this war, and the US has no interest in imposing their form of government on anyone. They are simply willing to help establish a form of government where people can have a say in their future. The majority of Iraqi's wanted this when we went to war.Please take your Vietnam arguments to a different thread, because they mean nothing here.

I'm not sure why you're so offended by a comparison, but it would be ignorant for a country to not learn from past mistakes and to not make comparisons to the past as a means of learning and bettering the present. There are many similarities between the Iraq war and Vietnam as well as many differences. There is not a one to one correspondence between the two, but there are still things that can be learned from Vietnam and applied to the current situation. Though, most of the lessons learned from Vietnam that would be relevant now could also have been learned from the French occupation of Algeria. That and about ten million other examples from history.

[Balloon guy 158]

Here goes the European liberal bash again. Ignorance is bliss right?But on to my main objection: If this war was needed to secure oil why in the world didn't we have a oil supply problem before the war? Last time I checked the three countries that produce most oil i Saudi Arabia, Russia and USA. Neither of those countries have an issue with the US to the extent that oil supply would be a problem. The way to solve oil dependence is to move away from oil as a main source of energy, not invade other sovereign countries.Some of you (far from all) seem to not realize that you have put yourself in this situation with a lot of American hate. You don't need to police the world and because you do it you have ended up in this situation. I think you realize that citizens of other countries don't like you poking around as much as you do, you wouldn't either. If the EU for some absurd reason decided to start helping Cuba and Venezuela and started interfering with your domestic problems you sure would start hating us in no time. Just for once, try to look at your actions from someone else's point of view, try to understand what they might feel. Sure you feel extremely strongly that free market capitalism and low government intervention is the best system and you prove it by showing what great economic figures you have, GDP and so on. First of all, the US, per capita, doesn't have the highest GDP of the world countries. Secondly, the EU GDP is higher than the US. Thirdly GDP does not in any way take into effect standards of living, happiness and such abstract concepts. Finally who's got the biggest GDP is as irrelevant as who's got the biggest penis. Each nation choose the system they feel works best for them and seldom can you clearly say that one system is better than another. You get one thing right our economies are tied together, neither can survive without the other in the sense that we could maintain our standard of living. So please, get off your horse and look at it in a mature way.

I understand some of what you say. But it is not fair to say the USA should not get involved with other countries, then quote the EU, which very much does get involved with other countries, and tries to do whatever is best for the EU. Take the Air Bus fiasco. The multi national attempt to usurp Boeing as the big plane maker is and has been a mess, with millions of euros going down the drain. All in an atempt to have a local company take over the marketshare from the USA. Was there a need to have a new plane? No there was a desire to have a new plane. Yet they have reached out of their borders to impact a commercial enterpirse.Now take oil, we, England, and France all have big connections in the oil business, we want to all have the cheapest oil for our countries. but regardless, we all recognize that the price of oil will affect every country in the world. Some more than others. This impact will also reach into every aspect of our ives, from food to cars to computers in that the cost of building and shipping will be increased. Inflation of this kind is very very hard to stop, better not to allow it to start. So we have the middle east mess.Now who can stabalize the region? the UN..not ever shown much of a positive track record.the EU? not a military organization.The arab league? Israel?Iran? Who is suppose to handle when a dictator ignores the world's idea of human rights and is in posession of enough oil to destabalize the world's economy.If they didn't have oil, we wouldn't be in there. If oil wasn't the life blood of the world's economy, then we wouldn't be in there.But they do and it is. So we have to be in there.When the Russians were killing Chezniens, we talked big, but left our troops out. When the Rwandains were butchering each other, we talked but kept out, Dufar, all talk, no troops. Long lst of similar countries doing things distasteful for all civilized people.So we are doing what you want, not forcing others how to live/act, unless it affect every single countries economy. What else can we do?

[crowTrobot 2]

Watch out, you might hurt yourself pounding your chest that hard!

that's not his chest

[Balloon guy 158]

Anyone else feel the need to jump on the Balloon guy for defending the American troops, feel free.A person is known by who is enemies are, and his friends.

[Balloon guy 158]

Yes only homosexuals get AIDS!

You know you ruined a good joke there Z...ruined it.

[All_In 0]

Anyone else feel the need to jump on the Balloon guy for defending the American troops, feel free.A person is known by who is enemies are, and his friends.

as usual, u r grouping people by judging the minority.i was replying to the poster, which, if u had any reasoning abilities, would realize that he was a fake. core!=corps.i'm sure the US soldiers are good guys on average, simple but good. afterall, they had no way in life but to be fodder for the ruling elite and big business. it's not their fault. oh wait, it's a volunteer army.and before u go spouting your reply, i come from a military family that goes back generations. my relatives have held (and currently do hold) military ranks higher than anyone here, guaranteed.u guys have become blinded by the catch-all war cry, 'support the troops!'. lol.

[Balloon guy 158]

as usual, u r grouping people by judging the minority.i was replying to the poster, which, if u had any reasoning abilities, would realize that he was a fake. core!=corps.i'm sure the US soldiers are good guys on average, simple but good. afterall, they had no way in life but to be fodder for the ruling elite and big business. it's not their fault. oh wait, it's a volunteer army.and before u go spouting your reply, i come from a military family that goes back generations. my relatives have held (and currently do hold) military ranks higher than anyone here, guaranteed.u guys have become blinded by the catch-all war cry, 'support the troops!'. lol.

Again, you are a loser.And I bet you got picked on at school...by girls.Feel free to shut up, you are making a fool of yourself.

[socalpoker_j 1]

Again, you are a loser.And I bet you got picked on at school...by girls.Feel free to shut up, you are making a fool of yourself.

The ol' respect-o meter has been going up for you Balloon in regards to you defending our troops, country, etc. Happy Friday fellow SoCal brotha man.

[scram 1]

as usual, u r grouping people by judging the minority.i was replying to the poster, which, if u had any reasoning abilities, would realize that he was a fake. core!=corps.i'm sure the US soldiers are good guys on average, simple but good. afterall, they had no way in life but to be fodder for the ruling elite and big business. it's not their fault. oh wait, it's a volunteer army.and before u go spouting your reply, i come from a military family that goes back generations. my relatives have held (and currently do hold) military ranks higher than anyone here, guaranteed.u guys have become blinded by the catch-all war cry, 'support the troops!'. lol.

God, you people are all the same.First, you make a grossly inaccurate comment.Then, being a typical menstruating leftist turd, you can't go 2 seconds without interjecting something about "big business" or "big oil" or "the multinational corporations".Then, in a total act of cowardice, you don't even have the sack to stand behind your bullshit so you couch it with the old "But i'm not racist... My best friend is black"There just isn't words to describe how pathetic people like you are.I totally disagree with this war- not because of "big oil" or "big business" or Tibet or baby seals or freeing Africa or whatever cause celebre happens to infest the weak little minds of the whining leftist this week. I disagree with the war because I think Saddam was the perfect ruler of those people and I couldn't care less how he ruled them. People like you completely discredit otherwise valid opinion by mere association, since you represent the absolute lowest form of ideas there are.

[akoff 0]

Anyone else feel the need to jump on the Balloon guy for defending the American troops, feel free.A person is known by who is enemies are, and his friends.

From the Halls of MontezumaTo the shores of TripoliWe fight our country's battlesIn the air on land and sea.First to fight for right and freedomAnd to keep our honor clean;We are proud to bear the titleOf United States Marines. Our flag's unfurled to every breezeFrom dawn to setting sun;We have fought in every clime and placeWhere we could take a gun.In the snow of far-off Northern landsAnd in sunny tropic scenes;You will find us always on the job --The United States Marines. Here's health to you and to our CorpsWhich we are proud to serve;In many a strife we've fought for lifeAnd never lost our nerve.If the Army and the NavyEver look on Heaven's scenes,They will find the streets are guardedBy United States Marines. This song is pretty damn old (125 years or so) so i guess you could say we were raised this way...and it has worked so far.Like it or hate it which ever you prefer...just stay out of the way.

[LongLiveYorke 38]

I totally disagree with this war- not because of "big oil" or "big business" or Tibet or baby seals or freeing Africa or whatever cause celebre happens to infest the weak little minds of the whining leftist this week. I disagree with the war because I think Saddam was the perfect ruler of those people and I couldn't care less how he ruled them.

I have to somewhat agree with you. Saddam's rule over the Iraqi people with an iron fist certainly seems like it was successful at holding back the internal violence and conflict between opposing religious or political factions within Iraq. To say he was a "perfect" ruler is going a bit far, probably. The real point, though, is the idea that Iraq is so artificial an entity that it requires a brutal dictator such as Saddam just to hold it together. Iraq is like two opposite poles of strong magnets. No matter how long you hold them together, when the hold over them lessens, they're only going to violently push apart. The idea that Saddam was more successful than the US at holding together Iraq doesn't mean that we should install someone like Saddam again, but rather it suggests that Iraq should not be forced together into one country. I'll admit that I really don't know enough about the history of the region to be certain about my opinion, but it seems that the breaking up of Iraq is the inevitable conclusion of this whole mess, and no matter how long the USA stays there (be it a year or ten more years) the same result will happen.Though, you don't have to be quite so condescending to leftists to get your point across. We may be whining and weak, but not all of our minds are little

[BenedictXVI 0]

Rock on!

[akoff 0]

but it seems that the breaking up of Iraq is the inevitable conclusion of this whole mess, and no matter how long the USA stays there (be it a year or ten more years) the same result will happen.

Agreed

[solderz 0]

i'm sure the US soldiers are good guys on average, simple but good. afterall, they had no way in life but to be fodder for the ruling elite and big business. it's not their fault. oh wait, it's a volunteer army.and before u go spouting your reply, i come from a military family that goes back generations. my relatives have held (and currently do hold) military ranks higher than anyone here, guaranteed.u guys have become blinded by the catch-all war cry, 'support the troops!'. lol.

Canadian Military? LOL

[scram 1]

To say he was a "perfect" ruler is going a bit far, probably.

Maybe "perfect" was conversational hyperbole. Nevertheless, I think it's a pretty safe bet that Saddam knew a helluva lot more about ruling Iraq than we "liberators" ever will.Like, we don't nor will we ever even begin to understand what's required with those people.I'm reading a book right now called Stealing History (Roger Atwood). It's a book about the looting of cultural patrimony that goes on to feed the antiquities trade. The book starts off by documenting Iraq after the fall of Saddam. The author and a German archaeologist go to a very important dig site that had been ongoing prior to the conflict. On their way in, they're met with scooters, trucks and motorcycles traveling in the opposite direction, all carrying mud covered sacks.The site itself was overrun with looters- like ants. As soon as they pull up, they're besieged by native Iraqis trying to sell them pricess, recently dug antiquities that had just been looted from the site for $30 or $40 (items that on the western market could bring five figures)When the author asked the looters about such practices during the Saddam regime, he casually responded "Oh, no, We would've been put to death..." The fact is, these people "are what they are". It may not be fair, but it's reality nevertheless.To think that we expect these morons to be able to shepherd their own freedom without any firm-handed oversight is just delusional.