mln_falcon 0 Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $0.02 BB (6 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)UTG ($3.33)MP ($5.05)Hero ($2.52)Button ($2.21)SB ($1.98)BB ($8.81)Preflop: Hero is CO with K , K . UTG calls $0.02, 1 fold, Hero raises to $0.08, 2 folds, BB raises to $0.14, UTG calls $0.12, Hero calls $0.06.Flop: ($0.43) 9 , 9 , 4 (3 players)BB bets $0.32, UTG folds, Hero calls $0.32.Turn: ($1.07) A (2 players)BB checks, Hero checks.River: ($1.07) 7 (2 players)BB bets $0.52, Hero ...Raise or Call?thoughts, I have a little postit note that I Sometimes stick to my screen in relation to this level; "Unless you have strong evidence to believe otherwise, a 3-bet pf always means a big pair". So I checked the turn because that ace is too good of a scare card for him, and doesn't really affect me, ie. I'm already beat by aces and he just hit a set, or I'm most probably still ahead. So I'm never folding on the river the way that I have played this, but should I raise to get value from say JJ or QQ?I know this is only 1c/2c so might not be the most interesting, but after downswinging and tilting I'm practising strict bankroll management, so please discuss seriously. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 I really think you played this hand too passively.Furthermore, your idea of raising the river is awful, what worse hand is calling you, and what better hand is folding? Pretty much nothing, so there is zero value in a river raise.I would reraise preflop.I would raise the flop. Link to post Share on other sites
danc1984 0 Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 Yeah, Zach is definately 100% correct, no way should you raise this river. Definately call as played but as has already been stated you should have reraised preflop and definately have raised on the flop. You definately want to get it all in on that flop with a preflop raiser at these limits if possible. Link to post Share on other sites
mln_falcon 0 Posted April 26, 2007 Author Share Posted April 26, 2007 I really think you played this hand too passively.Furthermore, your idea of raising the river is awful, what worse hand is calling you, and what better hand is folding? Pretty much nothing, so there is zero value in a river raise.I would reraise preflop.I would raise the flop.Just to make it clear, if I'm raising the river it's for the same reasons i should've raised pf, to be called by a lower pp, I'm not looking to fold anything I beat, as I said, I don't put him on the ace a large enough time to warrant worrying about it, unless he has a set of aces. No I'm not looking to find aces everytime i have kings, I'm just saying a huge amount of the times I have been three-bet pf, I have been up against a large pp.Reasons I didn't re-raise pf, I haven't been 4betting pf ever, so I kind of telegraph my hand. I know this doesn't matter so much here, but its important for other games I play in, so I like the postflop practice. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 Just to make it clear, if I'm raising the river it's for the same reasons i should've raised pf, to be called by a lower pp, I'm not looking to fold anything I beat, as I said, I don't put him on the ace a large enough time to warrant worrying about it, unless he has a set of aces. No I'm not looking to find aces everytime i have kings, I'm just saying a huge amount of the times I have been three-bet pf, I have been up against a large pp.Reasons I didn't re-raise pf, I haven't been 4betting pf ever, so I kind of telegraph my hand. I know this doesn't matter so much here, but its important for other games I play in, so I like the postflop practice.I don't mind just calling preflop, but you have to raise the flop then.Once you get to the river, raising is useless. I highly doubt you get called by a worse hand. Link to post Share on other sites
danc1984 0 Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 Just to make it clear, if I'm raising the river it's for the same reasons i should've raised pf, to be called by a lower pp, I'm not looking to fold anything I beat, as I said, I don't put him on the ace a large enough time to warrant worrying about it, unless he has a set of aces. No I'm not looking to find aces everytime i have kings, I'm just saying a huge amount of the times I have been three-bet pf, I have been up against a large pp.Reasons I didn't re-raise pf, I haven't been 4betting pf ever, so I kind of telegraph my hand. I know this doesn't matter so much here, but its important for other games I play in, so I like the postflop practice.I think just calling preflop is ok, personally I would reraise but I can understand just calling. It is the flop where I really feel you should raise, I would have made it like around $1.EDIT: Sorry, Zach already made this point. Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 I'm going to reraise preflop. Raising the river sucks. Link to post Share on other sites
dms26 3 Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 I know this is only 1c/2c so might not be the most interesting, but after downswinging and tilting I'm practising strict bankroll management, so please discuss seriously.There are 2 spots in this hand to raise, the river isn't one of them. If you raise the river one of two things is going to happen almost 100% of the time, a hand worse than yours is folding and a hand better than yours is calling. So the river raise only has value the very small % of the time you get an ace to fold.If I'm playing this hand I am definately re-raising preflop and getting most or all of it in on this flop, if he has AA oh well. You're playing within your bankroll so dropping a buyin to a cooler shouldn't affect your play. Link to post Share on other sites
dms26 3 Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 Just to make it clear, if I'm raising the river it's for the same reasons i should've raised pf, to be called by a lower pp, I'm not looking to fold anything I beat, as I said, I don't put him on the ace a large enough time to warrant worrying about it, unless he has a set of aces. No I'm not looking to find aces everytime i have kings, I'm just saying a huge amount of the times I have been three-bet pf, I have been up against a large pp.Reasons I didn't re-raise pf, I haven't been 4betting pf ever, so I kind of telegraph my hand. I know this doesn't matter so much here, but its important for other games I play in, so I like the postflop practice.If you are looking to be called here by QQ-TT here that's an even better case of why you should be jamming hard preflop and on the flop. If they aren't willing to fold those hands when you raise with an ace on the board they aren't folding to a 4 bet preflop either. Link to post Share on other sites
David_Nicoson 1 Posted April 26, 2007 Share Posted April 26, 2007 I have a little postit note that I Sometimes stick to my screen in relation to this level; "Unless you have strong evidence to believe otherwise, a 3-bet pf always means a big pair". So I checked the turn because that ace is too good of a scare card for him, and doesn't really affect me, ie. I'm already beat by aces and he just hit a set, or I'm most probably still ahead.It affects you in that he's half as likely to have pocket aces when the ace hits board. But then we start to think, "He might have AK or AQ." Right? Link to post Share on other sites
mln_falcon 0 Posted April 27, 2007 Author Share Posted April 27, 2007 Thanks for discussion everybody, and I think its fairly obvious from the replys, if I'm going to just call pf, I must raise on the flop. Its a little odd for me because I have been a little bit more passive with my overpairs lately, but this isn't one of those situations(normally raise pf in position and am lead into). Also, I probably discounted my oppenent having an ace too much. While I still think it is more likely for my opponent to have a pp than an ace, its still a possibility. As bad as my line was, it probably made me the most money this hand,I intented to raise but had second thoughts, and called, villan showed 66 Link to post Share on other sites
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