First Level Of A 180

[Ouch-8s 4]

$4.40 180 man sngPokerStars No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t20 (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)UTG (t1470)Hero (t1490)MP1 (t2050)MP2 (t1680)MP3 (t1260)CO (t1330)Button (t1470)SB (t1410)BB (t1340)Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J, J. 1 fold, Hero raises to t60, 1 fold, MP2 calls t60, 1 fold, CO calls t60, Button raises to t180, SB calls t170, 1 fold, Hero ???

[SlackerInc 0]

Tough spot. It wouldn't be a terrible play to fold here, feeling squeezed. I'd be tempted to call though and reevaluate depending on the flop. Of course someone could easily have a higher pair. Much easier if TT (fold) or QQ (call or maybe raise). I guess that's why you posted!

[tripdeuces 0]

Being that its a 180 and they fill so often i would push here all day.Granted you could be crush. But so often you see people make plays with hands you have crushed as well.

[Zach6668 513]

It wouldn't be a terrible play to fold here, feeling squeezed.

Yes it would.

[Ouch-8s 4]

So so far we have suggestions to fold, call, and jam. Nice to see a consensus! What kinds of hands are we putting villians on?

[Zach6668 513]

So so far we have suggestions to fold, call, and jam. Nice to see a consensus! What kinds of hands are we putting villians on?

Honestly, I just call here.There's 560 in the pot, and we need to call 120, and MP and CO are rarely reraising behind us, and usually calling, so that's another 240 added to the pot.Button's raise is weird. I want to say he has a monster that he wants action on, but lots of players would raise a lot more with so many players in the pot, he's not stealing, and he's not really protecting against anything. It's a weird raise.I think I would call and reevaluate on the flop, hopefully hit a set.Folding preflop is one of the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard Slacker say. Ever.

[iowahawk09 0]

Jacks are such a tough hand in this spot. I would most likely call to see a flop as I see the big blind raising anything from a mid pocket pair and hands like AJ, AQ, AK. I would call this raise and evaluate the flop.There is a chance he could have you crushed, but I think there are alot of viable hands the BB would be raising with that you would have beat.

[rog 0]

The real problem in this hand is your weak preflop raise though. It's not enough to thin the field under these circumstances.1) In low buy in events, people call weak-ish raises looking to flop huge2) In early blind levels #1 is VERY much amplified. I never raise to less than 5BB at 10/20 in any seat in these events.3) You're out of position, calling for a larger preflop raise anyway.4) Your pair is vulnerable to overcards, and you need to thin the field a bit. With AA, or KK, you might consider 3BB, but not with JJ.I would either limp looking to play multi-way for set value, or raise to AT LEAST 100 preflop. My line is usually the raise.As played: What's the buyin? If this is a $20, I call, and see what develops. If this is a $4, I shove, and expect to get called by Ax or 22+. I could go either way in a $10.

[Ouch-8s 4]

OP edited. It's a $4.40.

[BeaverStyle 1]

I call, check a flop of J 7 2, call the all in by the button who is obviously holding AK.lol.Anyway, I don't hate your preflop raise, I'd just smoothcall the reraise here and re-evaluate... if you get a lot of aggression coming your way, I don't mind folding JJ even with only 1 overcard. Very situational though, I had a hand last night in a $4.40 where I was holding JJ... was a crazy hand that I almost folded, then realized it was a $4.40. For an explanation, check out my bad beat thread in the BBF.Good day.

[RickC1883 0]

$4.40 180 man sngPreflop: Hero is UTG+1 with J, J. 1 fold, Hero raises to t60, 1 fold, MP2 calls t60, 1 fold, CO calls t60, Button raises to t180, SB calls t170, 1 fold, Hero ???

Early in a sng with so many callers I would Fold. JJ against one caller with overs is ok, don't know the odds. But against atleast 2 callers with 2 more to act it is an easy fold with the blinds so low. You have only lost $60 so far. Could be worse if the callers behind you push.

[Zach6668 513]

Early in a sng with so many callers I would Fold. JJ against one caller with overs is ok, don't know the odds. But against atleast 2 callers with 2 more to act it is an easy fold with the blinds so low. You have only lost $60 so far. Could be worse if the callers behind you push.

You CAN'T fold here.You only have to call T120 more!You can call for set value alone (including implied odds).Seriously.Folding is a MASSIVE mistake.

[rog 0]

Anyway, I don't hate your preflop raise...

Why not? At $4.40, what's the point in bloating the pot out of position with a vulnerable pair with a raise that's guaranteed to get no respect?I know you play a lot of these Beaver. What value do you see in that raise in level 1 of a $4.40?Edit: Oh, and I agree with Zach...folding would be retarded

[tripdeuces 0]

I have had many experiences early in a 4.40 where i would jam preflop with JJ. It happened last night actually and the two villains had A10 and A7 so that is why at that level a jam would be a good play while at a higher stakes calling for set value has got to be the best play. At the micro stakes its either call and see a flop or jam IMO. Folding is never an option here.

[NEtwowilldo 0]

Alright so far, Zach has been the most insightful. I'll set you all straight though.You don't know what the villain has, and it's going to be much easier to figure out on the flop.If you fold, YSSCKY.Calling is the best way to go. No one else is reraising behind us, if that was the case they would have reraised in the first place.If you hit a set, lead out and hope to get raised.If it comes all unders, lead out and wait to see what the villain does, he will most likely shove all in if he has a higher pair, in which case you can feel good about folding. If it comes like A K 9, well it's pretty obvious what you should do. Jamming is like too risky because I think the villain's range is AK+ and 10 10 +, which I don't think we're a big favorite against. And I think by jamming we only get called by AK and QQ+. So there you go. Not so hard after all.

[SlackerInc 0]

Folding preflop is one of the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard Slacker say. Ever.

You say that as though there are a vast number of candidates for this category! LOLI didn't say I was advising folding, only that it "wasn't a terrible play". I said I would be tempted to call. But the whole idea behind why a squeeze play works is that the players feeling "squeezed" still have several people still to act after them who called the original raise and may now re-reraise or push over top. It's not like you have a ton of chips invested, and by calling you may find yourself getting into a deeper and deeper hole, out of position, without a super strong hand.So I think I've said much more ridiculous things than this! I mean, uh...well, YKWIM.

[RickC1883 0]

You CAN'T fold here.You only have to call T120 more!You can call for set value alone (including implied odds).Seriously.Folding is a MASSIVE mistake.

OK, so I am still learning. These boards will definitly help my play. I am still a little to passive for my own good.

[tripdeuces 0]

Net i think you are giving the villain too much credit on his range. I think it could be KQ+ and A10+ and 88+ that is wiiiiide

[NEtwowilldo 0]

Net i think you are giving the villain too much credit on his range. I think it could be KQ+ and A10+ and 88+ that is wiiiiide

I think your range is way too wide. Who reraises that many players with A10 or K Q? Not many.

[Zach6668 513]

You say that as though there are a vast number of candidates for this category! LOLI didn't say I was advising folding, only that it "wasn't a terrible play". I said I would be tempted to call. But the whole idea behind why a squeeze play works is that the players feeling "squeezed" still have several people still to act after them who called the original raise and may now re-reraise or push over top. It's not like you have a ton of chips invested, and by calling you may find yourself getting into a deeper and deeper hole, out of position, without a super strong hand.So I think I've said much more ridiculous things than this! I mean, uh...well, YKWIM.

First of all, I have no idea wtf YKWIM means, lol.Secondly, it IS a terrible play. This isn't a squeeze play, his raise is way too small. No one is reshoving here, like almost never, it's the first level of a $4 180, trust me on this one.

OK, so I am still learning. These boards will definitly help my play. I am still a little to passive for my own good.

That's what we're here for. I think it's safe to say every single person who plays this game is still learning, and we just like to share our knowledge to help each other out.

[tripdeuces 0]

Net I don't think you have ever played a 180 if you think this range is too wide. Of the 100si have played it has been evident that people get their money in with garbage ESPECIALLY in the first hour.

[BeaverStyle 1]

Why not? At $4.40, what's the point in bloating the pot out of position with a vulnerable pair with a raise that's guaranteed to get no respect?I know you play a lot of these Beaver. What value do you see in that raise in level 1 of a $4.40?Edit: Oh, and I agree with Zach...folding would be retarded

I don't know how you would identify this play, but I would raise here to either:1. have a pot worth calling a reraise for to hit a set.2. have a pot worth leading out at when no overs hit.When someone reraises like this, I usually play JJ for set value. It's kind of weak, but it's so easy to get your money in good in $4.40's, that even when JJ doesn't hit a set on an all unders board with a position-reraiser... I can fold JJ.It's a tough situation, but you always see a flop here. From there... it's all feel, and if you don't flop a J, folding isn't horrible... you're out of position on a preflop reraiser.

[NEtwowilldo 0]

Net I don't think you have ever played a 180 if you think this range is too wide. Of the 100si have played it has been evident that people get their money in with garbage ESPECIALLY in the first hour.

I've played a bunch of 180s, not quite 100, but I've final tabled 3 of them and won 2. :: brag :: brag::I know there are a lot of donks but I still think we will be either racing or way behind, far more often than we will be way ahead.

[tripdeuces 0]

I guess it really depends on thought process obv. therrin talks about it with bizzle in the 180 sng strat thread. Because these pop up so much they won't fold JJ+ in the first hour. Thats where my line of reasoning comes from and it seems to make sense given results.(brag? )

[NEtwowilldo 0]

Idk maybe I'm just wrong, but I feel like you can make decisions so much easier after the flop in general. This just seems like a SA/WB situation to me (slightly ahead/wb)Not a spot where I'm looking to get my whole stack involved.