66 Shorthortanded, M=7 (average Stack)

[SlackerInc 0]

This was such a tough decision for me. Is it an easy fold? I know it's not an easy call--it's either a gambool push or a fold, right?Six players left out of ten at (my deeper-stacked) bar league live game, a STT with top two paid: first gets $100, second either gets $25 or $50, I forget.

[NEtwowilldo 0]

Blinds and Stack sizes please? I don't speak "M"I think I'm going to say stop and go, but let me get the details first.

[SlackerInc 0]

Blinds and Stack sizes please? I don't speak "M"I think I'm going to say stop and go, but let me get the details first.

Okay, let's see...blinds t400/200, no antes, about t4000 in my stack after paying the blind, villain (button, the only possible opponent at this point) has me outchipped by t600 or so; he raised to t1200, it's t800 for me to call (t3200 behind).I like the stop and go idea!

[NEtwowilldo 0]

Lol that's the second time this week you've liked my line so much to punctuate with an exclamation point. But, yeah if you decide you want to go all in, which I don't think is a bad play, since you are ahead of the villains range, I like the stop and go play a lot better than shoving pre. You gain sooo much more FE that way. Lets say he has 88 and you shove preflop. You're a 4 1/2 to 1 dog. But if you make up your mind that you're getting it all in, and you shove the flop of K Q 10, well now you're still alive when he folds, instead of still drawing to 2 outs with 2 to come. Also if he has A 10 and you shove a flop of 9 3 2, he'll probably fold. (Sometimes people try to make hero calls in this spot, but that would be fine with me). Sometimes he flops a pair and calls you and you're drawing slim, but that only happens 1 out of 3 times, and that would have happened anyways if you went all in preflop. You also take away his chance at hitting overs on the turn and river this way, if that's indeed what he has. Howwwwever, I think it is a really marginal spot with 66. I think that if you have some weak tight players with no understanding of M and how to adjust to higher blinds, then it would be a good idea to fold and safely steal their blinds later. If they are calling stations to your left, though, I like the stop and go play a lot better.Results?

[SlackerInc 0]

Lol that's the second time this week you've liked my line so much to punctuate with an exclamation point.

I had forgotten that. I guess I like your advice, lol.It's a tad too early for results, isn't it?

[Sid Simelia 0]

Don't mind a fold if you are at a fast table, but the Stop n Go seems to be the best idea. Now let's have those results.

[tripdeuces 0]

Depending on looseness of players a stop n go could be a bad idea. They might snap call with overs that could hit or you could easily already be crushed. 66 is a nice hand but works much better when you get to push first as opposed to calling.

[Zach6668 513]

Depending on looseness of players a stop n go could be a bad idea. They might snap call with overs that could hit or you could easily already be crushed. 66 is a nice hand but works much better when you get to push first as opposed to calling.

Isn't it good for him to snap call with overs?

[Yahkin 0]

Isn't it good for him to snap call with overs?

Only if he isn't a luckbox.

[tripdeuces 0]

I didn't convey exactly what i meant. If he calls with 66 and stop n gos any flop, there are sooooo many flops that hit the villain. So yes its good fro him to snap call with overs as it gives him the best chance to be ahead by a decent percentage. But what if the flop comes QJx do you still stop n go? or what about Axx? Kxx? of theose three i would be more inclined to stop n g only the King high flop. That being said im not much of a fan of the stop n go in particular at the lower levels. I am a fan of other people doing it to me .

[Zach6668 513]

The idea behind the stop and go is to give him a chance to fold hands where he'd be a coinflip if he saw the whole board, or even better hands, ie bigger pairs.If we stop n go blindly, we can fold QQ on a Axx flop sometimes.Or we fold overs and take away 2 of the cards they get to see, unless they make a bad call.Basically, we'd be getting all the money in anyways, but we have the added advantage of villain making postflop mistakes.

[tripdeuces 0]

Agreed I'm just not a big fan of the stop n go at the lower levels maybe it because i always seem to run bad when i do it i dunno.

[NEtwowilldo 0]

I didn't convey exactly what i meant. If he calls with 66 and stop n gos any flop, there are sooooo many flops that hit the villain.

There are 1 out of 3 flops that hit the villain. That's jsut a chance you have to take IMO.

[SlackerInc 0]

Interesting debate! I'm really liking the stop-n-go idea, but that may be because NET freakishly named villain's exact hand (88). I pushed, he thought for a long time, said "boy, this is just right on the borderline"...and then called. I don't remember what exactly the board was (other than the lack of a 6, lol); but I think there was at least one picture card on the flop that might have made a stop-n-go work.

[tripdeuces 0]

I think stack sizes are the most important part though its understandable as to why they weren't given. If you are among the top three in chips its a quick fold. Why would you make this move unless you were on the verge of elimination?

[NEtwowilldo 0]

http://www.pokerxfactor.com/SH57374/2711_20070421_164008Similar situation in a tournament that Rizen played in.

[tripdeuces 0]

Perfect flop for Rizen

[SlackerInc 0]

http://www.pokerxfactor.com/SH57374/2711_20070421_164008Similar situation in a tournament that Rizen played in.

That's really cool.Tripdeuces, I might have been steaming a bit. When we got down to six handed, I was chip leader by a good margin; at this point I was more like fourth (we stayed six handed for a really long time as this tourney has pretty deep starting stacks and 45 min. levels). I felt like villain was unlikely to have an overpair, though I did think if it was 77 or 88 he might fold it.

[tripdeuces 0]

Small pairs are a fickle breed. What makes Rizen's push work more are two things A) the flop and B) the buyin. Maybe i am losing a lot of equity by folding a lot preflop in these spots. I am just not a fan of losing chips in a wierd spots like this where if the flop has some random over we might just freeze and check or in the case of a guy who i stacked off to check and call an allin after he hit a set(wasn't a fan of his play but maybe i'm a donkey )