Jump to content

Recommended Posts

Just as a side note:In the book Who's your Caddy, Dewey Tompko talks about gambler's golf.Only rule: no rules, hit the ball where it lies, no out of bounds.Aany number of clubs, grease the clubface, any ball is legal, as is any club.The beauty/integrity of the game is lost, but the money is huge, and they all understand what they are getting into.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 420
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

The answer to this problem is very simple people. Everyone seems to agree here that what Ivey did was a hustle, which may or may not hinder him from getting any other golf game in the future. By the way you can call it Hustling or cheating it dosnt matter. Now, you have Ram and Marc who either got hustled or cheated at the game. What's the worse that could happen to them, they have to put up the money up front the next time they play golf with anyone (which I highly doubt). I think we all agree that if you catch someone cheating you don't pay them(not saying he cheated). Also, if you catch someone hustling you, you don't pay them as well. A hustle is only a hustle when you get away with it not when you get caught. Buttom line Ivey's rep has taken a hit here and Ram and Marc's rep will not take a hit if they decide not to pay. They should drop the matter and not play golf against each other again.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Again from earlier, you failed to answer my question, in fact answered a question I didn't ask. I am I right to assume you do not under stand golf handicaps from the following?
god how can you argue with someone who can't even grasp that golf gambling exists?it's in the world that you refuse to understand that this is the case. for the billionth time, i'm not talking about golf.
There are no established handicaps. In this world they have no significance. If someone were to pull out a forged handicap card, they’d get laughed off the tee. No one would believe them. Games are made on the basis of negotiation. This is fully a part of the game, perhaps the most important one. Negotiations are made on the basis of past experience and gathered intelligence. The more diligent you are in gathering intelligence, the better chance you have of getting the best of the negotiations. Lying is part of the negotiation process. Just as bluffing is in poker. When my group meets before playing, we all tells our lies, fake our pains, etc, laugh about it and then get on with the real talks. For the most part, our games are already set from previous experience and adjustments. This is a matter of necessity, because otherwise we might never tee off. However, there are usually some team bets or other odd wagers negotiated to make it more interesting. If you are out-negotiated, you accept it and go on..
Link to post
Share on other sites

I ARRIVE ON MAY THE 16TH AT JFK AIRPORT NEW YORK AT MIDDAYIF ANY OF YOU INTERNET POOVES WANT TO MEET ME THERE I`LL BE READYIM 6 FOOT 7, 24 STONE, SHAVEN HEAD, I WEAR 20 GOLD CHAINS AROUND MY 22 INCH NECKNOW YOU KNOW WHAT IM BUILT AND LOOK LIKE I BET NONE OF YOU WILL DARE COME NEAR THE AIRPORT THAT DAY

Link to post
Share on other sites
I ARRIVE ON MAY THE 16TH AT JFK AIRPORT NEW YORK AT MIDDAYIF ANY OF YOU INTERNET POOVES WANT TO MEET ME THERE I`LL BE READYIM 6 FOOT 7, 24 STONE, SHAVEN HEAD, I WEAR 20 GOLD CHAINS AROUND MY 22 INCH NECKNOW YOU KNOW WHAT IM BUILT AND LOOK LIKE I BET NONE OF YOU WILL DARE COME NEAR THE AIRPORT THAT DAY
I call dibs on the video rights! :club:
Link to post
Share on other sites
I ARRIVE ON MAY THE 16TH AT JFK AIRPORT NEW YORK AT MIDDAYIF ANY OF YOU INTERNET POOVES WANT TO MEET ME THERE I`LL BE READYIM 6 FOOT 7, 24 STONE, SHAVEN HEAD, I WEAR 20 GOLD CHAINS AROUND MY 22 INCH NECKNOW YOU KNOW WHAT IM BUILT AND LOOK LIKE I BET NONE OF YOU WILL DARE COME NEAR THE AIRPORT THAT DAY
Can someone ban this guy already?
Link to post
Share on other sites
I ARRIVE ON MAY THE 16TH AT JFK AIRPORT NEW YORK AT MIDDAYIF ANY OF YOU INTERNET POOVES WANT TO MEET ME THERE I`LL BE READYIM 6 FOOT 7, 24 STONE, SHAVEN HEAD, I WEAR 20 GOLD CHAINS AROUND MY 22 INCH NECKNOW YOU KNOW WHAT IM BUILT AND LOOK LIKE I BET NONE OF YOU WILL DARE COME NEAR THE AIRPORT THAT DAY
Isn't that day that the cast from Boy meets Boy is having their 3 year reunion show?Probably a coincidence
Link to post
Share on other sites

Too late. I already called rights.To those that do venture to the airport that day, do not make the mistake of confusing your opponent with the guy that is frequently seen there that is a mere 23 stone and has but 17 gold chains. That guy typically uses a mace and lead pipe. Whole different ballgame.

Link to post
Share on other sites
I ARRIVE ON MAY THE 16TH AT JFK AIRPORT NEW YORK AT MIDDAYIF ANY OF YOU INTERNET POOVES WANT TO MEET ME THERE I`LL BE READYIM 6 FOOT 7, 24 STONE, SHAVEN HEAD, I WEAR 20 GOLD CHAINS AROUND MY 22 INCH NECKNOW YOU KNOW WHAT IM BUILT AND LOOK LIKE I BET NONE OF YOU WILL DARE COME NEAR THE AIRPORT THAT DAY
I'LL TAKE U DOWN SUCKA.
Link to post
Share on other sites
Too late. I already called rights.To those that do venture to the airport that day, do not make the mistake of confusing your opponent with the guy that is frequently seen there that is a mere 23 stone and has but 17 gold chains. That guy typically uses a mace and lead pipe. Whole different ballgame.
lmao, I'll have to watch out for that. Can see where I could be confused.
Link to post
Share on other sites

Guvner once tried to punch Chuck Norris in the face with his bare fist, but Chuck blocked the punch with his beard and broke all of Guvners fingers. He then roundhouse kicked Guvner in his 24 stone, 20 gold chain having neck and Guvner was forced to talk in all caps from then on so he could be understood.

Link to post
Share on other sites

IF ANY OF YOU HAVE THE BOLLOCKS TO FIND ME AT THE AIRPORT WE WILL FIGHT IN THE CAR PARKBE WARNED, YOU WONT LAST MORE THAN 30 SECONDS WITH ME, I HAVE THE STRENGTH OF 10 MEN AND MY PUNCHES ARE LIKE BEING SMASHED WITH A SLEDGEHAMMER

Link to post
Share on other sites
I ARRIVE ON MAY THE 16TH AT JFK AIRPORT NEW YORK AT MIDDAYIF ANY OF YOU INTERNET POOVES WANT TO MEET ME THERE I`LL BE READYIM 6 FOOT 7, 24 STONE, SHAVEN HEAD, I WEAR 20 GOLD CHAINS AROUND MY 22 INCH NECKNOW YOU KNOW WHAT IM BUILT AND LOOK LIKE I BET NONE OF YOU WILL DARE COME NEAR THE AIRPORT THAT DAY
Either Mr T or Hulk Hogan?
Link to post
Share on other sites
I ARRIVE ON MAY THE 16TH AT JFK AIRPORT NEW YORK AT MIDDAYIF ANY OF YOU INTERNET POOVES WANT TO MEET ME THERE I`LL BE READYIM 6 FOOT 7, 24 STONE, SHAVEN HEAD, I WEAR 20 GOLD CHAINS AROUND MY 22 INCH NECKNOW YOU KNOW WHAT IM BUILT AND LOOK LIKE I BET NONE OF YOU WILL DARE COME NEAR THE AIRPORT THAT DAY
Are you kimbo slice?
Link to post
Share on other sites

It's amazing to me that people are trying to argue about the "handicaps" as if they were analogous to an established handicap for an established golf league. That's clearly not what's going on here. This is clearly a situation where a temporary handicap substitute (giving someone x number of strokes vs. another) is negotiated prior to playing, agreed upon by both players, with no riders or attachments. To claim that this agreement is "invalid" because one player lied in that negotiation process is simply ludicrous. By this sort of definition, any time you lost a bet you could claim that the handicap was invalid, since, by definition, your opponent overplayed his expectation. IF these guys had have been playing with a pre-established, mathematically-determined handicap, and Phil had lied on the stats that determined that handicap, then Ram might have a valid argument, because that would void the contract. But to whine as he does about somebody lying during a process of negotiation shows an astounding naivete of the negotiation process, particularly for someone presumably accustomed to dealing with enormous sums of money.Is Ivey a bit of a prick for utilizing his friendship with Ram to capitalize on that naivite? Absolutely. And I fully acknowledge that I really have no real knowledge of the world that these guys live in, where $10k bets on a hole can possibly be considered "too small". But I do know that when a meaningful amount of money is involved to the parties involved, there are no friends. Just as I wouldn't expect top players who also happen to be friends to soft-play each other at the final table of the WSOP, I wouldn't expect negotiations for betting on golf for obscene (to my eyes) amounts of money to be "friendly". In order for these guys to do what they do, they have to be exceedingly skilled at separating their friendships from their financial opponents, even when it's the same people in both categories. I would venture a guess that that seems to be something that Ram is not particularly skilled at, and I fear that that is going to leave him open to being manipulated as he was here.Indulge me an anecdote with different 0's at the end. I occasionally bet on disc golf with my friends. We generally play for $5 a hole, not a meaningful amount for us. We're all fairly even, but when one of us has developed an advantage, we will negotiate a small temporary handicap. We had a new player come in and hustle us; he joined in for $5 a hole at our baseline handicap, he soft-played and we wound up close to even. He then wanted to play a second round, this time for $10 a hole, and said he'd even give anyone an extra stroke. That set off my alarm bells, but I also figured that this guy probably wasn't THAT much better than me, and so I agreed (I was the only one). $10 isn't a meaningful amount for me. And so he turned it up, and revealed on the first hole that he was a very good player, and managed to take 10 of 15 holes from me with spotting me one throw. I owed him $50, and said, "well, jackass, I hope this was worth it because you're not welcome back here", but then I paid him his money. I was the sucker here, and acknowledge it, but I was willing to pay to see his hand, so to speak, because it wasn't all that much money.Had he tried to push it to $100 a hole (a meaningful amount), I would have told him to do several things that are anatomically impossible and walked away. That's the difference between a meaningful amount of money and a trivial amount, and that's what Ram should have done here.IANAL but I pretty strongly feel that no arbitrator in the world would rule in Ram's favor here. Phil and Ram were obviously playing a game where the rules were determined by a negotiation prior to the game, with no specific stipulation on whether the information offered in those negotations was truthful (this is a weak arrangement, and I find it astonishing that these guys apparently have no system for an official handicapping process based on official records of their matches with this sort of $$ at stake).DN's posts on the subject have been quite unnecessarily hyperbolic and over-the-top, in my opinion, but that doesn't make him wrong. Ram owes money that he doesn't want to pay because he wrongly expected the truth to be told in a negotiation where massive amounts of money was at stake.And watching people try to wax knowledgeable on the cultural differences between Brits and Yanks in this thread has been somewhat akin to watching a 5th grader try to understand Shakespeare: just painful.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Farmist you're an even bigger idiot for arguing with him."I would fight you and I would win"Ok CyberWarrior :D
Wow, so you think it was all a serious part of the thread. Wow. Makes me sad. :club:
Link to post
Share on other sites

I just had a GREAT idea!I am having an FCP Golf Outing on June 6th.How about we have those guys come out and settle this thing once and for all???Ivey???...Ram???....wadda ya say? :club:

Link to post
Share on other sites
god how can you argue with someone who can't even grasp that golf gambling exists?it's in the world that you refuse to understand that this is the case. for the billionth time, i'm not talking about golf.
Yes we know YOU are not talking about golf, however Marc and Ram have made it clear that they were. That is the point, like I say. Again you have failed to answer my point about handicaps, I can assume that you have no idea how factually erroneous your statement on handicaps was then?
Link to post
Share on other sites
hus·tle -tled, -tling, noun –verb (used without object) 1. to proceed or work rapidly or energetically: to hustle about putting a house in order. 2. to push or force one's way; jostle or shove. 3. to be aggressive, esp. in business or other financial dealings. 4. Slang. to earn one's living by illicit or unethical means. 5. Slang. (of a prostitute) to solicit clients. –verb (used with object) 6. to convey or cause to move, esp. to leave, roughly or hurriedly: They hustled him out of the bar. 7. to pressure or coerce (a person) to buy or do something: to hustle the customers into buying more drinks. 8. to urge, prod, or speed up: Hustle your work along. 9. to obtain by aggressive or illicit means: He could always hustle a buck or two from some sucker. 10. to beg; solicit. 11. to sell in or work (an area), esp. by high-pressure tactics: The souvenir venders began hustling the town at dawn. 12. to sell aggressively: to hustle souvenirs. 13. to jostle, push, or shove roughly. 14. Slang. to induce (someone) to gamble or to promote (a gambling game) when the odds of winning are overwhelmingly in one's own favor. 15. Slang. to cheat; swindle: They hustled him out of his savings. 16. Slang. a. (of a prostitute) to solicit (someone). b. to attempt to persuade (someone) to have sexual relations. c. to promote or publicize in a lively, vigorous, or aggressive manner: an author hustling her new book on the TV talk shows. –noun 17. energetic activity, as in work. 18. discourteous shoving, pushing, or jostling. 19. Slang. a. an inducing by fraud, pressure, or deception, esp. of inexperienced or uninformed persons, to buy something, to participate in an illicit scheme, dishonest gambling game, etc. b. such a product, scheme, gambling game, etc. 20. Informal. a competitive struggle: the hustle to earn a living. 21. a fast, lively, popular ballroom dance evolving from Latin American, swing, rock, and disco dance styles, with a strong basic rhythm and simple step pattern augmented by strenuous turns, breaks, etc.
Well there's your problem, everyone else is using the word hustle to mean what defined in 14 above. Not 15 and not 21.
Link to post
Share on other sites
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J2DdJu9fwfwYou can see what John Juanda makes of it on this vid, you'll also see Ivey is more than a little sheepish and defensive at the criticism
Yikes...interesting find. But a bet is a bet, like those sucker bar bets "I'll bet i can drink this without using my hands" kinda bets, crap like that. Once you say "YOU'RE ON", then baby...you're on.I will say that this whole thing does seem to have a bit of slime on it, but....and I'll say it again...The lessons learned here seem obvious.1. Make sure you do your homework before accepting a wager from Phil Ivey (or anyone for that matter).2. If you agree to the wager, then smell a rat ...BUT KEEP PLAYING, then you only have yourself to blame.Pay the man Ram. :club:
Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

Announcements


×
×
  • Create New...