Tough Spot, But Everyone Plays This Same Right?

[Roberts2003 0]

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (2 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)BB ($221.80)Hero ($380.80)Preflop: Hero is Button with J, J. Hero raises to $7, BB raises to $25, Hero calls $17.Flop: ($49) 4, 5, T(2 players)BB bets $41, Hero raises to $357.8 (All-In), BB calls $157.80 (All-In).Turn: ($605.60) 8(2 players, 2 all-in)River: ($605.60) Q(2 players, 2 all-in)Final Pot: $605.60reads are he is tough lag, but ive caught him bluffing at least 5 times, and i had 1 hand that was just like this where i called his 3 bet with A 7 offsuit, then went all in over the top on the flop of a 5 5 9 board and showed. im pretty sure that my actions were good here, i just want some feedback and if anyone would play differently.

[Jordan 1]

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (2 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)BB ($221.80)Hero ($380.80)Preflop: Hero is Button with J, J. Hero raises to $7, BB raises to $25, Hero calls $17.Flop: ($49) 4, 5, T(2 players)BB bets $41, Hero raises to $357.8 (All-In), BB calls $157.80 (All-In).Turn: ($605.60) 8(2 players, 2 all-in)River: ($605.60) Q(2 players, 2 all-in)Final Pot: $605.60reads are he is tough lag, but ive caught him bluffing at least 5 times, and i had 1 hand that was just like this where i called his 3 bet with A 7 offsuit, then went all in over the top on the flop of a 5 5 9 board and showed. im pretty sure that my actions were good here, i just want some feedback and if anyone would play differently.

hmm, interesting.as played i think it's standard(ish)...but i actually would like to see a re-raise pf if you think you have the best hand now...JJ doesn't do that well on most flops, so unless you were playing for set value, which it doesn't look like you were (hence the shovel) what do you think he has, AK, and will call?if you play it this way, i think you need to take the thought "he may have QQKKAA here and I need to slow down" before shoveling (like see turn action...). Of course, if could be AK here, but I think if you just call instead of shoveling, you can avoid this 'mistake'.that said, this would be well played if you had say KK/AA...JJ i think you need to 3-bet...and obv fold to a 4bet/be careful if he just calls.edit -- ewps, is this HU play...if so that changes a lot. I thought this was 6 max.- Jordan

[Roberts2003 0]

hmm, interesting.as played i think it's standard(ish)...but i actually would like to see a re-raise pf if you think you have the best hand now...JJ doesn't do that well on most flops, so unless you were playing for set value, which it doesn't look like you were (hence the shovel) what do you think he has, AK, and will call?if you play it this way, i think you need to take the thought "he may have QQKKAA here and I need to slow down" before shoveling (like see turn action...). Of course, if could be AK here, but I think if you just call instead of shoveling, you can avoid this 'mistake'.that said, this would be well played if you had say KK/AA...JJ i think you need to 3-bet...and obv fold to a 4bet/be careful if he just calls.edit -- ewps, is this HU play...if so that changes a lot. I thought this was 6 max.- Jordan

yes it is heads up, i mainly play heads up on Full Tilt and all 3 hands ive posted recently have been heads up hands. when i push all in here, i feel that my hand range is soooo wide in his eyes because i just did this shove and showed a complete bluff, therefore i feel he calls with 66 77 88 99, 10x, and also Ax too. thats how loose this game was.

[Acid_Knight 2]

I thought it was 6 max and was gonna start remarking about how awful it was.HU is a different story altogether. I agree with Jordan though that you should put in a 4th bet before the flop HU with a hand like JJ.I dunno, I guess this is "ok" but I'm not really thrilled with it, I just can't put my finger on exactly why.

[Jordan 1]

I thought it was 6 max and was gonna start remarking about how awful it was.HU is a different story altogether. I agree with Jordan though that you should put in a 4th bet before the flop HU with a hand like JJ.I dunno, I guess this is "ok" but I'm not really thrilled with it, I just can't put my finger on exactly why.

because we know he losses.OP, next time don't hint that you lose the hand...it does waiver responses.- Jordan

[mtdesmoines 3]

Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $2 BB (2 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)BB ($221.80)Hero ($380.80)Preflop: Hero is Button with J, J. Hero raises to $7, BB raises to $25, Hero calls $17.Flop: ($49) 4, 5, T(2 players)BB bets $41, Hero raises to $357.8 (All-In), BB calls $157.80 (All-In).Turn: ($605.60) 8(2 players, 2 all-in)River: ($605.60) Q(2 players, 2 all-in)Final Pot: $605.60reads are he is tough lag, but ive caught him bluffing at least 5 times, and i had 1 hand that was just like this where i called his 3 bet with A 7 offsuit, then went all in over the top on the flop of a 5 5 9 board and showed. im pretty sure that my actions were good here, i just want some feedback and if anyone would play differently.

You are so toast on this hand.

[Roberts2003 0]

I thought it was 6 max and was gonna start remarking about how awful it was.HU is a different story altogether. I agree with Jordan though that you should put in a 4th bet before the flop HU with a hand like JJ.I dunno, I guess this is "ok" but I'm not really thrilled with it, I just can't put my finger on exactly why.

clearly the standard play heads up is to put the 4th bet in preflop with JJ, but i think he 3 bet preflop 4 other times before that and i had called lightly every time. so when i call, it HEAVILY disguises my hand. after the hand, he remarked on how he in no way put me on a strong a hand as JJ. results are that he had KK and it held.

[iowahawk09 0]

does anyone just disagree with this play altogether?

[RhinestoneCowboy 2]

Is that a huge cooler?Are you a winning player at these limits?Has anyone seen my keys?

[Zach6668 513]

Is that a huge cooler?

No, it's a "realllly big cooler".Can't you read?

[technicor 0]

repop preflop to $100, call a push, or if he calls, push or call a push most boards short of AKx

[Acid_Knight 2]

because we know he losses.OP, next time don't hint that you lose the hand...it does waiver responses.- Jordan

Actually, it's because the bet on the flop will rarely be called by a hand that he's beating, even heads up. He could make a smaller raise and then fold if the villain puts in the 3rd bet on the flop.It seems that he's scaring away action from hands he's beating and giving his money to those that he isn't.

[Roberts2003 0]

Actually, it's because the bet on the flop will rarely be called by a hand that he's beating, even heads up. He could make a smaller raise and then fold if the villain puts in the 3rd bet on the flop.It seems that he's scaring away action from hands he's beating and giving his money to those that he isn't.

this is not true at all. i very clearly stated in a earlier post that the way the action was going, he calls with Ace high and any pair. what a random opponent SHOULD do is quite often not what a random opponent WILL do. so its easy, politically correct, and trendy to say that i fold worse hands and get called by better hands, but that was not the case in the slightest in this match, that is why it was a massive cooler. just because everyone ignored my background analysis, i will post one of the hands where i bluffed him huge prior to the JJ hand. Full Tilt Poker Game #2225334629: Table York (heads up) - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:51:59 ET - 2007/04/16Seat 1: marcopolo28 ($239.50)Seat 2: IHaveAStrong9 ($202.60)IHaveAStrong9 posts the small blind of $1marcopolo28 posts the big blind of $2The button is in seat #2*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to IHaveAStrong9 [Ac 7d]IHaveAStrong9 raises to $6marcopolo28 raises to $18IHaveAStrong9 calls $12*** FLOP *** [6s 9c 6c]marcopolo28 bets $31IHaveAStrong9 raises to $184.60, and is all inmarcopolo28 foldsUncalled bet of $153.60 returned to IHaveAStrong9IHaveAStrong9 shows [Ac 7d] (a pair of Sixes)IHaveAStrong9 wins the pot ($97.50)*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $98 | Rake $0.50Board: [6s 9c 6c]Seat 1: marcopolo28 (big blind) folded on the FlopSeat 2: IHaveAStrong9 (small blind) collected ($97.50)

[irishguy 14]

this is not true at all. i very clearly stated in a earlier post that the way the action was going, he calls with Ace high and any pair. what a random opponent SHOULD do is quite often not what a random opponent WILL do. so its easy, politically correct, and trendy to say that i fold worse hands and get called by better hands, but that was not the case in the slightest in this match, that is why it was a massive cooler. just because everyone ignored my background analysis, i will post one of the hands where i bluffed him huge prior to the JJ hand. Full Tilt Poker Game #2225334629: Table York (heads up) - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:51:59 ET - 2007/04/16Seat 1: marcopolo28 ($239.50)Seat 2: IHaveAStrong9 ($202.60)IHaveAStrong9 posts the small blind of $1marcopolo28 posts the big blind of $2The button is in seat #2*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to IHaveAStrong9 [Ac 7d]IHaveAStrong9 raises to $6marcopolo28 raises to $18IHaveAStrong9 calls $12*** FLOP *** [6s 9c 6c]marcopolo28 bets $31IHaveAStrong9 raises to $184.60, and is all inmarcopolo28 foldsUncalled bet of $153.60 returned to IHaveAStrong9IHaveAStrong9 shows [Ac 7d] (a pair of Sixes)IHaveAStrong9 wins the pot ($97.50)*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $98 | Rake $0.50Board: [6s 9c 6c]Seat 1: marcopolo28 (big blind) folded on the FlopSeat 2: IHaveAStrong9 (small blind) collected ($97.50)

The problem with this play is when it works and you get the fold you wina med pot. When it doesn't work you get called by hands that beat you and lose a big pot.

[RhinestoneCowboy 2]

this is not true at all. i very clearly stated in a earlier post that the way the action was going, he calls with Ace high and any pair. what a random opponent SHOULD do is quite often not what a random opponent WILL do. so its easy, politically correct, and trendy to say that i fold worse hands and get called by better hands, but that was not the case in the slightest in this match, that is why it was a massive cooler. just because everyone ignored my background analysis, i will post one of the hands where i bluffed him huge prior to the JJ hand. Full Tilt Poker Game #2225334629: Table York (heads up) - $1/$2 - No Limit Hold'em - 16:51:59 ET - 2007/04/16Seat 1: marcopolo28 ($239.50)Seat 2: IHaveAStrong9 ($202.60)IHaveAStrong9 posts the small blind of $1marcopolo28 posts the big blind of $2The button is in seat #2*** HOLE CARDS ***Dealt to IHaveAStrong9 [Ac 7d]IHaveAStrong9 raises to $6marcopolo28 raises to $18IHaveAStrong9 calls $12*** FLOP *** [6s 9c 6c]marcopolo28 bets $31IHaveAStrong9 raises to $184.60, and is all inmarcopolo28 foldsUncalled bet of $153.60 returned to IHaveAStrong9IHaveAStrong9 shows [Ac 7d] (a pair of Sixes)IHaveAStrong9 wins the pot ($97.50)*** SUMMARY ***Total pot $98 | Rake $0.50Board: [6s 9c 6c]Seat 1: marcopolo28 (big blind) folded on the FlopSeat 2: IHaveAStrong9 (small blind) collected ($97.50)

So now you're bluffing a calling station? If he calls with any ace or a pair here it seems like he is either calling with a better hand or folding a worse one. What am I missing?

[Zach6668 513]

The problem with this play is when it works and you get the fold you wina med pot. When it doesn't work you get called by hands that beat you and lose a big pot.

What do pot sizes have to do with anything?I want to win more pots!

[Roberts2003 0]

So now you're bluffing a calling station? If he calls with any ace or a pair here it seems like he is either calling with a better hand or folding a worse one. What am I missing?

What I am saying is that due to this hand and a couple other bluffs that i did, he was in a way steaming and already playing very loose as it is. The hand i posted where i bluffed all in, he probably also had ace high, possible KQ KJ, and that was early on in the match where people usually play tighter. as the match went on, he became looser and looser, including check calling me down on a K 8 2 2 A board out of position with A 6 when i bet every street with KQ. this hand that i just posted with A7 is background knowledge in that i called a 3 bet with a very marginal hand, and then i did the same with an incredibly strong hand in JJ. so basically what i am saying is that in the JJ hand, when i go all in on the flop, it reps the same bluff i did earlier, and he would call with any pair, and ace high.

[cMcMonkey 0]

What I am saying is that due to this hand and a couple other bluffs that i did, he was in a way steaming and already playing very loose as it is. The hand i posted where i bluffed all in, he probably also had ace high, possible KQ KJ, and that was early on in the match where people usually play tighter. as the match went on, he became looser and looser, including check calling me down on a K 8 2 2 A board out of position with A 6 when i bet every street with KQ. this hand that i just posted with A7 is background knowledge in that i called a 3 bet with a very marginal hand, and then i did the same with an incredibly strong hand in JJ. so basically what i am saying is that in the JJ hand, when i go all in on the flop, it reps the same bluff i did earlier, and he would call with any pair, and ace high.

He may be getting looser and looser with your reasonable bets, but the 2 examples you gave show that he has a willingness to pass up a gamble when you shovel way overbetting the pot and wait for you to hang yourself when he actually has a hand. Granted, the same thing could happen and he could have A10 here, or an A with the flush draw or something you're ahead of, but I think your previous bluffs made him more likely to wait for a hand where he felt he was pretty far ahead before calling the big bet. Calling down reasonable bets against a proven bluffer with A-high or 2nd/3rd pair HU is much different than calling a huge overbet all-in with the same hands. I guess what I'm getting at is I'd be more comfortable with this line if you had something a little stronger than 1-pr on a draw heavy board. AKs/AQs or a combo draw has 15 outs here, and despite what you've said I'd be surprised it he called with anything worse than AT with the As.

[Jordan 1]

Making a ridiculous bluff HU and showing it is a good play if you know you are playing your opponent in the future.So, I can see your reasoning here and I yea.HU play is so gross, a lot of weird things go down and they are hard to post analysis on and get effective insight from people.You're best off talking with a good poker player, who has a lot of HU experience himself, about hands one on one. This way you can talk more about your opponents, he can rail you when you're playing, and so forth.Posting a hand or two, with a little feedback, is tough when playing HU. I've tried it here before and most of the responses I got were really not that helpful...I really think nlhe hu, deep stacked, is pretty much an "artform"...in that your style is probably pretty unique and it is about you developing it to make you better. It's difficult though, cause HU is so swingy.Some of my best success has come from hu nlhe cash games..but I've also run horribly cold against idiots who beat me and I can't do anything about it. It's really about the long long long run playing HU and against one opponent, that's hard to get.I don't like playing solid HU players because it gets into a pissing contest which I've never believed HU to be about. HU is all about game selection.- Jordan