Roberts2003 0 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (2 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Hero ($423)Button ($555.80)Preflop: Hero is BB with J, J. Button raises to $22, Hero raises to $84, Button calls $60.Flop: ($166) T, Q, K(2 players)Hero bets $140, Button calls $140.Turn: ($446) Q(2 players)Hero bets $203 (All-In), Button calls $203.River: ($852) 6(2 players, 1 all-in)Final Pot: $852 Link to post Share on other sites
Roberts2003 0 Posted April 16, 2007 Author Share Posted April 16, 2007 Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (2 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Hero ($423)Button ($555.80)Preflop: Hero is BB with J, J. Button raises to $22, Hero raises to $84, Button calls $60.Flop: ($166) T, Q, K(2 players)Hero bets $140, Button calls $140.Turn: ($446) Q(2 players)Hero bets $203 (All-In), Button calls $203.River: ($852) 6(2 players, 1 all-in)Final Pot: $852i am really puzzled by this hand, particularly on what acton i should take on the turn. feedback is appreciated. Link to post Share on other sites
simo_8ball 0 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Reads? Link to post Share on other sites
Roberts2003 0 Posted April 16, 2007 Author Share Posted April 16, 2007 Reads?hes played pretty passive loose bad. i defintely do not put him on a boat when i push turn, best he has is a luckbox AQ hand. Link to post Share on other sites
NEtwowilldo 0 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 CRAI on the flop maybe Link to post Share on other sites
Roberts2003 0 Posted April 16, 2007 Author Share Posted April 16, 2007 CRAI on the flop maybeyeah looking back, that looks to be the best option Link to post Share on other sites
Garn 0 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 I find it hard to believe that you are ahead here. someone calling your initial reraise will likely have a piece of that flop. I lead towards a c/c or a c/f Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Pretty ridiculous raise/call on his part pre-flop.Big problem with this hand is stack sizes. If we make a big c-bet like this on the flop, we're going to have a very wimpy turn bullet. I think I prefer bringing the bet sizes down throughout the hand...go to $66 pre-flop...that puts us at $132 on the flop. Then we can bet like $90. If that's called, we're left with $270 to bet/not bet into $310...which is much preferable to bet/not betting $200 into $450.If we make this big of a re-raise pre-flop, I hate it, but I think check/calling or check/raising the flop are going to be the best options. On the turn, I don't see any way that we're not beat...and I don't think we can fold him out. He's pretty much got to have AK/AQ/AJ/KQ/KJ/QJ/J9/KK/QQ/TT. The only unlikely hand that we "beat" and that should fold are JJ/JT. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 If he's passive, I'm gonna make an argument for checking the flop and or the turn. We are like never leading with the preflop action and that board. Maybe we can see a free card or two if he is passive like you say, but I defintely don't think you should be getting your stack in there against anybody given that action preflop and the board you've got. Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 i'm sorry.but el o el at all the responses of crai on the flop.The ONLY hand he has here we are ahead of is AT.And maybe some small pairs.If he has small pair, crai is also horrible for obvious reasons.Here is how you play the hand on the flop.Check. He will usually check. If he bets, you fold. That simple.Now, I have absolutely no read on opp..but anytime you put that many bb into the pot pf he'll usually have a big ace, KQ, TT+ type hands. I suppose, he could have 22-99 here as well..but if that is the case I promise you he is going to check it down as fast as possible.If the guy bets this flop you just have to give up, unless you want to gamble with "8" outs to the dirty nuts, or whatever. For those of you that think crai is a good play..why? You think he is betting 99 here (and if so we shoud c/c him down letting him try to bluff us)? You think he will fold any pair + str8 draw combo, any pair + fd combo, after he bets and we shove into an already bloated pot?The ideal thing here is to get to a showdown, yea it sux cuz we are hu..but seriously...IF it goes check/check on both the flop and turn I may "value bet" on the river tryign to get a smaller pp to pay me off, but I really think the best line on the river is to check/call most bets to pick off desperation bluffs. Otherwise, I just dump on the flop...sparing a read that he is not a total nut...but sometimes you have to give even nuts a little credit.- Jordanedit, let me also add I think the turn shove is pretty bad spewage (plz dont get your panties in a bunch, I've done it too).oh, double edit, I sometimes will lead this pot for like $100 or so, but I do it only if I'm feeling like a pansy just check/folding (thus not that great of a play)...In this case though I think hero flop bet is to big in % of the pot. Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 did my post sink in for anyone?or do you disagree with me?- Jordan Link to post Share on other sites
mtdesmoines 3 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 Full Tilt No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (2 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FlopTurnRiver)Hero ($423)Button ($555.80)Preflop: Hero is BB with J, J. Button raises to $22, Hero raises to $84, Button calls $60.Flop: ($166) T, Q, K(2 players)Hero bets $140, Button calls $140.Turn: ($446) Q(2 players)Hero bets $203 (All-In), Button calls $203.River: ($852) 6(2 players, 1 all-in)Final Pot: $852I don't like it. Not even heads up. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 did my post sink in for anyone?or do you disagree with me?- JordanIt was too long. Link to post Share on other sites
irishguy 14 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 did my post sink in for anyone?or do you disagree with me?- Jordan I think you hit it perfectly Link to post Share on other sites
Jordan 1 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 It was too long.noob. go back to lolminbetaments.- Jordan Link to post Share on other sites
Roberts2003 0 Posted April 16, 2007 Author Share Posted April 16, 2007 I think you hit it perfectlyyeah i agree as well jordan, mostly about the turn bet being spewage, as well as my flop bet being too big. if the action was rewinded back to the turn after i already made the big flop bet, whats peoples actions? this is probably a leak of mine, but i remember at the time hating the idea of check folding since i had already put so much in. Link to post Share on other sites
Royal_Tour 0 Posted April 16, 2007 Share Posted April 16, 2007 did my post sink in for anyone?or do you disagree with me?- JordanLOl. i was scared for a moment, i always thought i was a pretty aggressive player in HU, but i would have never invested that much on that flop/turn.I'm glad a voice of reason shined through Link to post Share on other sites
CobaltBlue 662 Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 but el o el at all the responses of crai on the flop.The ONLY hand he has here we are ahead of is AT.And maybe some small pairs.If he has small pair, crai is also horrible for obvious reasons.Eh...crai certainly isn't one of my favorite options, but to suggest that it won't fold some hands that beat us is odd...and the pot's so big that we wouldn't mind smacking him if he had decided to bet a small pair for some reason. If he does call and have us beat, we're not typically drawing dead.My first suggestion is still to bring the bet sizes down. That gives us far more flexibility with the hand. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 Another important consideration: Never push your stack in when it's a legit possibilitiy that you'll be drawing dead. Link to post Share on other sites
Roberts2003 0 Posted April 17, 2007 Author Share Posted April 17, 2007 Another important consideration: Never push your stack in when it's a legit possibilitiy that you'll be drawing dead.thats like 1 of 3000 cliche poker sayings. another one is, "never draw to that sucker straight!!" a third one is, "watch out for the limper!!" Link to post Share on other sites
linkwood 0 Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 thats like 1 of 3000 cliche poker sayings. another one is, "never draw to that sucker straight!!" a third one is, "watch out for the limper!!"i love it when people come to the forum for advice and then scorn everyone who gives them advice Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 thats like 1 of 3000 cliche poker sayings. another one is, "never draw to that sucker straight!!" a third one is, "watch out for the limper!!"Ok, how's this.Your play is retarded. It's almost impossible that no matter how stupid your opponent is, that you could ever be winning if you bet and are called on this flop. You might be drawing to 8 outs and you might be drawing to none. Drawing dead is bad. If it's a cliche, oh well. Bad cliches are better than your awful play in this hand. This hand is played horribly and I think that you just didn't want to let go of pocket jacks so instead of a reasonable line where you check/fold to a pot sized flop bet and check/call if you're getting good odds to draw to a straight, you decided to stick your whole stack in without thinking.I mean, did you even take a minute to think about what your opponent could possibly be holding here? He called you on the flop. It's really unlikely that he's going anywhere on the turn considering the awesome pot odds that he's getting. Your play is suicide, which bring me back to my original point:Never push your stack in when it's a legit possibilitiy that you'll be drawing dead. Link to post Share on other sites
Roberts2003 0 Posted April 17, 2007 Author Share Posted April 17, 2007 Ok, how's this.Your play is retarded. It's almost impossible that no matter how stupid your opponent is, that you could ever be winning if you bet and are called on this flop. You might be drawing to 8 outs and you might be drawing to none. Drawing dead is bad. If it's a cliche, oh well. Bad cliches are better than your awful play in this hand. This hand is played horribly and I think that you just didn't want to let go of pocket jacks so instead of a reasonable line where you check/fold to a pot sized flop bet and check/call if you're getting good odds to draw to a straight, you decided to stick your whole stack in without thinking.I mean, did you even take a minute to think about what your opponent could possibly be holding here? He called you on the flop. It's really unlikely that he's going anywhere on the turn considering the awesome pot odds that he's getting. Your play is suicide, which bring me back to my original point:Never push your stack in when it's a legit possibilitiy that you'll be drawing dead.alright, fair enough Acid Knight, i do admit that the hands looks pretty bad. decided to rep a stronger hand then JJ and it didnt work. ill remember your wise words the next time i sparr off at 2 4 NL. Link to post Share on other sites
Lavitz 0 Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 I'd focus a little on pot control. You have a monster HU hand and your pre-flop 3 bet is so large that you seem like you don't want him to call. I wouldn't c-bet this flop. If villian is passive chances are he's going to give you a free card and if he bets I think we can fold this for a better spot because a passive villian just raised and called our overly large 3-bet and then bet after we checked a highly coordinated flop that was likely to have hit us. That usually mens he is going with his hand. If he has a hand we're ahead of like a PP I can't see hm firing that kind of board after we 3 bet. Same goes with A10 in which I think he'd try to take a free card for his shot at the nuts.As played, turn is atrocious card for us. Check/fold. Some of our outs could fill him up and/or are blocked by him if our outs are even good in the first place. He's not laying it down either. Link to post Share on other sites
Acid_Knight 2 Posted April 17, 2007 Share Posted April 17, 2007 As played, turn is atrocious card for us.The turn card doesn't change anything except that we could be drawing dead. The flop was what was horrible. Link to post Share on other sites
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