An Atheist Scientist Turns To God

[Loismustdie 0]

That is some sick ****. Let's examine why-What if I killled a child I knew was being abused and raped? I knew it would continue if someone didn't do something about it, so I killed the child who would then get to spend eternity in Heaven with God. I'd go to jail and rightly so. It's expected that I would try to help the child, not end the child's life, and again, rightly so!God is omnipotent and all-powerful, God could stop this torture and rape VERY easily, if the Christian doctrine is to be believed. But he may not have, in this scenario, he killed the child. Sound thought processes LMD. You are one f$%#ed up poobah. I can only imagine the horror of being you.

In that scenario, it is not your choice. You cannot take lives without facing consequences. And, as usual, we have that whole issue- which nobody seems to to grasp, not all that suprising- which is that Satan roams the earth doing all kinds of evil ****, and God does nothing to stop it, when he could, if he wanted. So, what I am saying is maybe there is a reason. It's really not that hard of a concept. Kid could grow up ****ed up and out of it, never recover, get deeper and deeper into whatever, when the time comes to choose God or just sin, she chooses sin. Meanwhile, life is tortue, a living hell, which ends in Hell as well, for eternity. So,Satan, through his chaos, actually ends up helping this child out. Remember, this is a battle for souls. Who really won in the scenario? Hell or Heaven. Clearly heaven.

[Loismustdie 0]

It's later

It's talking about his ascension into heaven after the crucifixion. One of them would be dead, remember? If you read all 3 accounts of that, you get a pretty clear picture of what he was talking about. All that getting all riled up for nothing. That must sting a little.

[Zeatrix 0]

That George Carlin clips was both hilarious and at the same time spot on analysis of religion today.

[KramitDaToad 0]

It's talking about his ascension into heaven after the crucifixion. One of them would be dead, remember? If you read all 3 accounts of that, you get a pretty clear picture of what he was talking about. All that getting all riled up for nothing. That must sting a little.

What I find laughable is you tell me that perhaps I should read the Bible, then you make posts that show your understanding of scripture is pre-school at best.Firstly, even if we accepted that explanation it doesn't get you around Matt. 24:34, but lets humour you.Shall we examine all 3 accounts then? In context?Luke.9[26] For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.[27] But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.From this you could assume maybe that Jesus is talking about his ascension, but you think he would say 'see me ascending to Heaven' as this is the event to witness, but lets cut you some slack and see how it pans out...Matt.16[27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.[28] Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.Bit more detail and it seems to me like it's Jesus coming not going. It would also seem that when they see him he is in Heaven not heading there. Also he is coming to reward us according to our works. That sounds like Judgement Day to me. Your ascension theory is thinning out. Moving right along...Mark.8[38] Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.Mark.9[1] And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.Now he is coming with angels and it's the kingdom of God that is coming with power. Again coming not going, and the kingdom of God coming is definately not Jesus's ascension.But it doesn't stop there. We can add a little support from other scripture where Jesus describes the comingMatt.24[64] Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.Mark.14[62] And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.Luke.22[69] Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.It seems blatantly obvious that all this talk of coming in power, glory, heaven and angels is the second coming. Not the first going

[fighter 4]

That George Carlin clips was both hilarious and at the same time spot on analysis of religion today.

george carlin ? where was that ?

[Zeatrix 0]

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...t&p=1850424

[fighter 4]

http://www.fullcontactpoker.com/poker-foru...t&p=1850424

dam that was on the same page. my bad i am not with it at the moment. i like this thread two great comedians have said funny things about religion. lets keep them coming.

[David_Nicoson 1]

First off, it was a question- did anybody see the question mark? I posed a question.

I saw the question mark. I saw the period on the last sentence I quoted.

God would not make a christian go through that. <--- This is a period.

This is kooky because God clearly has allowed Christians to go through all kinds of horrible things. I don't think Jesus taught that we could avoid Earthly horrors by following him. Quite the contrary, in fact.By Christian, I mean a person who endeavors to follow the teachings and example of Jesus Christ. I do not mean only you are the four other people in your bible study.Suppose someone jumped out from behind your desk and sodomized you with a broom handle. I suspect you'd tweak your belief system a bit.

Now, the thinking behind this is this- a child is raped and murdered. What if, God looked in the future, saw that this child was currently being molested by her dad, it would continue to happen for 6 years, she would turn to drugs, on and on and on, God sees a moment in time when this rape and murder will occur, and instead of stepping in says, "Alright, this is what Satan ahs planned through his chaos, but that is o.k., because this is a child, and it works out for her, because she gets to go to heaven and won't remember what happened." Satan is allowed to run wild on earth, but sometimes through his chaos there is light. Sometimes. On the surface, kooky, yes, but if you think it through, not so kooky. Would you be willing to go through something horrible, if you knew when it was over you would spend forever in bliss? Of course you would.

I thought you said Christians don't get raped. So the child would be going to Hell, right?

[David_Nicoson 1]

I am saying that of every christian child that I have known, none have been raped. None that I have known, and I don't believe that God would make a striveing christian have to deal with that kind of pain.

Imagine you are that child that was raped.Imagine people in your church saying that it wouldn't have happened if you were a true Christian.Would you still want to follow their religion, or would you tell them to stick it up their ***?

[brvheart 1,752]

Oh, I've read the Bible. Front to back and back to front.It helped me to conclude that the Christian God's existance is ridiculously unlikely.However let's assume that He is real...To suggest to know the mind of God enough to dictate that VT is His 'punishment' is dispicable arrogance.And then there is the small matter:Matt:16[27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.[28] Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.Matt:24[6] And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars: see that ye be not troubled: for all these things must come to pass, but the end is not yet.[7] For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places.[8] All these are the beginning of sorrows.[9] Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake.[10] And then shall many be offended, and shall betray one another, and shall hate one another.[11] And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.[12] And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.[13] But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.[14] And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come.[15] When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)[16] Then let them which be in Judaea flee into the mountains:[17] Let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house:[18] Neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes.[19] And woe unto them that are with child, and to them that give suck in those days![20] But pray ye that your flight be not in the winter, neither on the sabbath day:[21] For then shall be great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time, no, nor ever shall be.[22] And except those days should be shortened, there should no flesh be saved: but for the elect's sake those days shall be shortened.[23] Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.[24] For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.[25] Behold, I have told you before.[26] Wherefore if they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert; go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers; believe it not.[27] For as the lightning cometh out of the east, and shineth even unto the west; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.[28] For wheresoever the carcase is, there will the eagles be gathered together.[29] Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:[30] And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.[31] And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other.[32] Now learn a parable of the fig tree; When his branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that summer is nigh:[33] So likewise ye, when ye shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors.[34] Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.He is just a little late don't you think?

You realize that there are 8 chapters between your highlighted sentences, yes? They have no bearing on each other at all... and your first bolded sentence is incorrectly quoted.

Maybe a rape now was better then what God saw in the future for the child? I think it maybe a little of both sometimes. I don't know of any christians children who have been raped. God would not make a christian go through that. The thing is, with my reasoning I am doing the world a favor, because what God says is,"Time and chance happens to them all." Sadly, I have to go to work, but I will post some scriptures on Gods protection later tonight.

Wow Lois, this is pretty crazy. You're just totally wrong here.

[brvheart 1,752]

What I find laughable is you tell me that perhaps I should read the Bible, then you make posts that show your understanding of scripture is pre-school at best.Firstly, even if we accepted that explanation it doesn't get you around Matt. 24:34, but lets humour you.Shall we examine all 3 accounts then? In context?Luke.9[26] For whosoever shall be ashamed of me and of my words, of him shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he shall come in his own glory, and in his Father's, and of the holy angels.[27] But I tell you of a truth, there be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the kingdom of God.From this you could assume maybe that Jesus is talking about his ascension, but you think he would say 'see me ascending to Heaven' as this is the event to witness, but lets cut you some slack and see how it pans out...Matt.16[27] For the Son of man shall come in the glory of his Father with his angels; and then he shall reward every man according to his works.[28] Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.Bit more detail and it seems to me like it's Jesus coming not going. It would also seem that when they see him he is in Heaven not heading there. Also he is coming to reward us according to our works. That sounds like Judgement Day to me. Your ascension theory is thinning out. Moving right along...Mark.8[38] Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.Mark.9[1] And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.Now he is coming with angels and it's the kingdom of God that is coming with power. Again coming not going, and the kingdom of God coming is definately not Jesus's ascension.But it doesn't stop there. We can add a little support from other scripture where Jesus describes the comingMatt.24[64] Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.Mark.14[62] And Jesus said, I am: and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.Luke.22[69] Hereafter shall the Son of man sit on the right hand of the power of God.It seems blatantly obvious that all this talk of coming in power, glory, heaven and angels is the second coming. Not the first going

I don't understand why you stop quoting each part as soon as the Bible is going to lay it out perfectly to you. Luke 927"But I say to you truthfully, there are some of those standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God."28Some eight days after these sayings, He took along Peter and John and James, and went up on the mountain to pray.29And while He was praying, the appearance of His face became different, and His clothing became white and gleaming.30And behold, two men were talking with Him; and they were Moses and ElijahThe ONLY thing that's obvious about this section is how you were intentionally omitting parts of the scripture to try to make your point valid. The sections of Luke 9 and Matt 16 that you quoted are referring to the Transfiguration about to happen on the mountain... not Jesus' second coming... and the Bible even says that clearly. Have a 3rd grade English teacher explain verse 28 to you if you still don't see that. Most of the other verses you quoted have nothing to do with what you claim.

[chrisuk_sw 0]

Maybe a rape now was better then what God saw in the future for the child? I think it maybe a little of both sometimes. I don't know of any christians children who have been raped. God would not make a christian go through that. The thing is, with my reasoning I am doing the world a favor, because what God says is,"Time and chance happens to them all." Sadly, I have to go to work, but I will post some scriptures on Gods protection later tonight.

Ugh. I just wanted to add my voice to the disgust felt at this and other postings of a similar vein.

[KramitDaToad 0]

I don't understand why you stop quoting each part as soon as the Bible is going to lay it out perfectly to you. Luke 927"But I say to you truthfully, there are some of those standing here who will not taste death until they see the kingdom of God."28Some eight days after these sayings, He took along Peter and John and James, and went up on the mountain to pray.29And while He was praying, the appearance of His face became different, and His clothing became white and gleaming.30And behold, two men were talking with Him; and they were Moses and ElijahThe ONLY thing that's obvious about this section is how you were intentionally omitting parts of the scripture to try to make your point valid. Every section of scripture you quoted if referring to the Transfiguration about to happen on the mountain... not Jesus' second coming... and the Bible even says that clearly. Have a 3rd grade English teacher explain verse 28 to you if you still don't see that.

So you say its the Transfiguration and Loismustdie says its the ascension.Can you guys get your stories straight?At least your transfiguration story looks a little better than his, however its still a desperate attempt at circumventing logic.Let's start with Matthew. He says: There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. It ties very nicely with the verses above . Verse 27, the very verse prior, speaks of Jesus coming with his angels to judge. Then we have 28 talking again about Jesus coming whilst in heaven. Much better than those following. Even the 3rd grade English teacher you so politely pointed me towards could show you that. The verses that follow talk of Jesus glowing and talking to Moses and Elias. No angels, no Son in heaven.Then there is this mysterious, 'some of you will not die before', which is a ridiculous thing to say if you are talking about an event that is happening in a week.Moreso it states that some will not die, which sensibly suggests some will. How many disciples died in the next 8 days? Luke says until they see the Kingdom of God. Did they see the kingdom of God? Nope, they see a shiny Jesus and a talking cloud. Again no other disciples dying.Mark: That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power. Same results. Lots of healthy disciplesAll 3 fit better with the verses above. All 3 describe seeing the Kingdom of God with Matthew stating that Jesus would be in it. None of them describe anything like that happening at the transfiguration.This is all further backed by by other places where Jesus promises to return within a generation. As you so kindly pointed out the passages are quite seperate, so to me and any other rational person, he is making the promise more than once. The only thing he forgot to do was keep it.As I said, a bit better than Loismustdie, but still desperate.

[Zeatrix 0]

Man, I just love your logical approach.

[Loismustdie 0]

So you say its the Transfiguration and Loismustdie says its the ascension.Can you guys get your stories straight?At least your transfiguration story looks a little better than his, however its still a desperate attempt at circumventing logic.Let's start with Matthew. He says: There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom. It ties very nicely with the verses above . Verse 27, the very verse prior, speaks of Jesus coming with his angels to judge. Then we have 28 talking again about Jesus coming whilst in heaven. Much better than those following. Even the 3rd grade English teacher you so politely pointed me towards could show you that. The verses that follow talk of Jesus glowing and talking to Moses and Elias. No angels, no Son in heaven.Then there is this mysterious, 'some of you will not die before', which is a ridiculous thing to say if you are talking about an event that is happening in a week.Moreso it states that some will not die, which sensibly suggests some will. How many disciples died in the next 8 days? Luke says until they see the Kingdom of God. Did they see the kingdom of God? Nope, they see a shiny Jesus and a talking cloud. Again no other disciples dying.Mark: That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power. Same results. Lots of healthy disciplesAll 3 fit better with the verses above. All 3 describe seeing the Kingdom of God with Matthew stating that Jesus would be in it. None of them describe anything like that happening at the transfiguration.This is all further backed by by other places where Jesus promises to return within a generation. As you so kindly pointed out the passages are quite seperate, so to me and any other rational person, he is making the promise more than once. The only thing he forgot to do was keep it.As I said, a bit better than Loismustdie, but still desperate.

Ascension, tranfiguration, same thing. Judas died, remember? He killed himself for betraying Christ. So, before his ascension, one of them died. Score one for the good guys! Desperate? No. The thing is, I don't care whether you are convinced,and really, all the hand holding in the world isn't going to help here. These are great scriptures to talk about, and I liked reading what Braveheart had to say. Really, you are just in the way more than anything.

[Loismustdie 0]

Ugh. I just wanted to add my voice to the disgust felt at this and other postings of a similar vein.

No real thought process of your own, I see. Good form.

[chrisuk_sw 0]

No real thought process of your own, I see. Good form.

Lois, How many birds did God ask Noah to take onto the ark?You've been pwned many times on this forum, and this thread has shown what a desolate black place your heart is.

[David_Nicoson 1]

Ascension, tranfiguration, same thing.

?The transfiguration occurred before Jesus died and the ascension occurred after his resurrection. Right?

[Loismustdie 0]

?The transfiguration occurred before Jesus died and the ascension occurred after his resurrection. Right?

To be honest, I have not really studied that in a long time. I guess I should look at it again. The term transfiguration isn't even in the bible, I am just talking about when he shed his physical form and ascended into heaven. Honestly, I have never heard the argument that what's his name put forth, it is a brand new one. Braveheart did a good job refuteing it. I don't think much else can be said on the subject. I will be doing soem studying on it, though.

[Loismustdie 0]

Lois, How many birds did God ask Noah to take onto the ark?You've been pwned many times on this forum, and this thread has shown what a desolate black place your heart is.

God-Why did you stop defending my word, Frank? Me-God, chrisuk sw said I was pwned. What was I supposed to do? God-Who is chrisuk sw? Me- Yeah, good point. As far as my heart, well, it is often in the wrong place. As far as a desolate black place, no. It does need work, though. Thanks for the heads up.

[fighter 4]

God-Why did you stop defending my word, Frank? Me-God, chrisuk sw said I was pwned. What was I supposed to do? God-Who is chrisuk sw? Me- Yeah, good point.

I dont care what side you are on that is funny right there.

[Zeatrix 0]

Except that I suspect he's not trying to be funny, he just forgot the quotation marks...

[KramitDaToad 0]

Ascension, tranfiguration, same thing. Judas died, remember? He killed himself for betraying Christ. So, before his ascension, one of them died. Score one for the good guys! Desperate? No. The thing is, I don't care whether you are convinced,and really, all the hand holding in the world isn't going to help here. These are great scriptures to talk about, and I liked reading what Braveheart had to say. Really, you are just in the way more than anything.

To be honest, I have not really studied that in a long time. I guess I should look at it again. The term transfiguration isn't even in the bible, I am just talking about when he shed his physical form and ascended into heaven.

Maybe we should revisit the point where you questioned my knowledge of the Bible then Loismustdie? It would seem that the nasty athiest knows scripture better than you.To use your expression, "That must sting a little."The transfiguration is where Jesus goes up on a mountain with James, John and Peter. He glows a bit, speaks to Moses and Elias and then the voice of God says words to the effect of 'He is my son, obey him'. Personally I would've preferred a Monty Python type 'He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy"It happens well before the crucifixion let alone the ascension. (You do know what these terms mean don't you? I'll give you a hint, a crucifixion is what you are receiving right now)No disciples die between the promise and the transfiguration.As to your claim that the word doesn't appear in the Bible:Matt.17[1] And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,[2] And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.[3] And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.Mark.9[1] And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.[2] And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.Oops. Of course that's from the KJV. Maybe you don't like that 'version'Now I'm going to run a book on which response will you use:1) "You're not a Christian so you wouldn't understand" - 11/22) "You're an idiot and haven't got a clue, so you are not worth dealing with" - 3/13) A selective choice of 1 or 2 points to pick on and ignoring all the other damning facts - 2/14) Calling an end to the discussion because Kramit is just wrong - 5/25) Ignoring it all together - 5/16) Admitting "I am wrong" - 10,000,000,000/1

[KramitDaToad 0]

Man, I just love your logical approach.

Thanks for that.Logic is such a wonderful thing. It's a skill that's kept us alive and developing for millions of years. It's a pity so many theists are scared of it.

[Zeatrix 0]

I'm sorry, but I'm starting to feel sad for Loismustdie. You are so totally owning him that it really is becoming unbearable to watch...