An Atheist Scientist Turns To God

[fighter 4]

Thanks for that.Logic is such a wonderful thing. It's a skill that's kept us alive and developing for millions of years. It's a pity so many theists are scared of it.

You seem to be well read on the bible. Were you a priest a while ago or just subscribe to an awful book club.You are an athiest but have read the bible back to front and front to back. Is there an interesting story behind that? I wouldnt mind reading about your story of discovery.

[chrisuk_sw 0]

Loismustdie - how many birds did God ask Noah to take onto the ark?

[memphis-sc 0]

I recommend to anyone to read this debate between Sam Harris (author of the End of Faith and Letters to a Christian Nation)- an athiest, and Andrew Sullivan. It is great. It has maybe 5 or six responses from each, going back to when the debate began back in january.this link should go to the beginning of the debate and have all the responses:http://www.beliefnet.com/story/209/story_20904_1.html

[Loismustdie 0]

Maybe we should revisit the point where you questioned my knowledge of the Bible then Loismustdie? It would seem that the nasty athiest knows scripture better than you.To use your expression, "That must sting a little."The transfiguration is where Jesus goes up on a mountain with James, John and Peter. He glows a bit, speaks to Moses and Elias and then the voice of God says words to the effect of 'He is my son, obey him'. Personally I would've preferred a Monty Python type 'He's not the Messiah. He's a very naughty boy"It happens well before the crucifixion let alone the ascension. (You do know what these terms mean don't you? I'll give you a hint, a crucifixion is what you are receiving right now)No disciples die between the promise and the transfiguration.As to your claim that the word doesn't appear in the Bible:Matt.17[1] And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,[2] And was transfigured before them: and his face did shine as the sun, and his raiment was white as the light.[3] And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with him.Mark.9[1] And he said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That there be some of them that stand here, which shall not taste of death, till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power.[2] And after six days Jesus taketh with him Peter, and James, and John, and leadeth them up into an high mountain apart by themselves: and he was transfigured before them.Oops. Of course that's from the KJV. Maybe you don't like that 'version'Now I'm going to run a book on which response will you use:1) "You're not a Christian so you wouldn't understand" - 11/22) "You're an idiot and haven't got a clue, so you are not worth dealing with" - 3/13) A selective choice of 1 or 2 points to pick on and ignoring all the other damning facts - 2/14) Calling an end to the discussion because Kramit is just wrong - 5/25) Ignoring it all together - 5/16) Admitting "I am wrong" - 10,000,000,000/1

I better bone up on some things. I can handle being wrong occasionally. Now, the question I would have is this- I contend it is dealimng with Christ ascension into heaven. Why is this a problem for you?

[Loismustdie 0]

I'm sorry, but I'm starting to feel sad for Loismustdie. You are so totally owning him that it really is becoming unbearable to watch...

No worse than your pathetic arguments for gun control. I hope zombies eat you.

[KramitDaToad 0]

I better bone up on some things. I can handle being wrong occasionally. Now, the question I would have is this- I contend it is dealimng with Christ ascension into heaven. Why is this a problem for you?

Short term memory issues?

[renaedawn 1]

You will never know how he helps unless you allow yourself to. The lord does work in mysterious ways, but not in this case. This case is pretty straightforward. You want to deny me? You want to put me to the side, take me out of the equation, take me out of your schools and put every effort into reduceing me to nothing while you go about your lives? Well, maybe for one day I won't protect your children, what you find sacred I will lift my hand and let it be destroyed right in front of you. Then, let's see who it is you turn to. Lets' see who you gather to speak to and seek comfort from. Let's see who you call for help. Yes, God works in mysterious ways, but sometimes he just hits you with a brick.

Wow. Just wow. Ever been to Kansas? I hear there's a church there who believes a lot of what you spouted in this post. You should start making your "fag troops" signs now to impress them upon your arrival.

[renaedawn 1]

I just figured out what Christian sect Lois belongs to.I mean, c'mon, VTech = God kicking it into high gear, amirite?

Dammit.I knew I was gonna be too late to make that comparison.

[renaedawn 1]

To suggest to know the mind of God enough to dictate that VT is His 'punishment' is dispicable arrogance.

Welcome to the religion forum where everyone but Lois struggles to understand the mind of God.

[Loismustdie 0]

Welcome to the religion forum where everyone but Lois struggles to understand the mind of God.

Sadly bitter.

[Loismustdie 0]

Wow. Just wow. Ever been to Kansas? I hear there's a church there who believes a lot of what you spouted in this post. You should start making your "fag troops" signs now to impress them upon your arrival.

Why would I do that?

[Loismustdie 0]

Short term memory issues?

You also have to assume that he is talking about physical death to go along witn your explanation. He could be speaking of spirtual. We know he is not talking about actually coming back, because he does not know when he is coming back. Sometimes, to get to the meaning,you have to look deeper, taking into consideration what you already know. In this case, the fact that Jesus straight up said he doesn't know when he is coming back. Matthew 24:36 34] Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.[35] Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.[36] But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.[37] But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.[38] For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,[39] And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.[40] Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.[41] Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.[42] Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come. I still think that when Christ is saying Generation he is speaking of the New Law generation. That is just my hypothesis, though. I will tell you, it is nice to get actual questions that pertain to scripture. Good stuff.

[renaedawn 1]

Sadly bitter.

Nope just a realist about how crazy some people are.Sadly crazy.

[Loismustdie 0]

Nope just a realist about how crazy some people are.Sadly crazy.

They called Christ crazy. I should be so lucky.

[fighter 4]

They called Christ crazy. I should be so lucky.

They call the crazy , crazy too

[Loismustdie 0]

They call the crazy , crazy too

Good point. I like to think alot, look at different possibilities, if that is crazy then so be it. I can live with that.

[jmkiser 0]

Good point. I like to think alot, look at different possibilities, if that is crazy then so be it. I can live with that.

... yeah, that's exactly what they're talking about.... :D and nice job at looking at all the angles and then jumping on the bandwagon of the most illogical ideas out there :D

[KramitDaToad 0]

You also have to assume that he is talking about physical death to go along witn your explanation. He could be speaking of spirtual.

What is a spiritual death? How do the disciples die 'spiritually'?

We know he is not talking about actually coming back, because he does not know when he is coming back. Sometimes, to get to the meaning,you have to look deeper, taking into consideration what you already know. In this case, the fact that Jesus straight up said he doesn't know when he is coming back. Matthew 24:36 34] Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.[35] Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.[36] But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only.[37] But as the days of Noe were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.[38] For as in the days that were before the flood they were eating and drinking, marrying and giving in marriage, until the day that Noe entered into the ark,[39] And knew not until the flood came, and took them all away; so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.[40] Then shall two be in the field; the one shall be taken, and the other left.[41] Two women shall be grinding at the mill; the one shall be taken, and the other left.[42] Watch therefore: for ye know not what hour your Lord doth come.

I doesn't actually preclude Jesus from knowing. It would be sensible for him to include himself on that list. For example."I am going to say a number out loud and nobody knows what it is." If I already know what the number is the sentence still makes sense."I am going to say a number out loud and nobody knows what it is, not even me." Makes it perfectly clear.Even if he is in the dark he can still know a time frame. I don't know when your next birthday is, by my God (logic) tells me that it will happen in the next 12 months.

I still think that when Christ is saying Generation he is speaking of the New Law generation. That is just my hypothesis, though.

As I said, that is a real stretch in English. In Greek it doesn't work at all.

I will tell you, it is nice to get actual questions that pertain to scripture. Good stuff.

Well perhaps in future you will ascertain somebody's knowledge before writing it off.Really man, the way you treat people is disgusting. Sure, this is an internet forum and a lot of flaming and insults take place, but your attitude towards people and your dealings with others is just woeful. To look through your posts is to observe an endless stream of anger, confusion and disdain. You do yourself or your religion no favours.I was serious before when I said I think you should get help. Take a good long look at yourself Loismustdie, it's not the world out to get you. It's you out to get the world. Why is that?

[KramitDaToad 0]

Welcome to the religion forum where everyone but Lois struggles to understand the mind of God.

Thanks. I won't be sticking around though. I felt the need to jump in here as some of the posts were just horrific. Sometimes an argument needs to presented to keep the impresionable informed of reality.Discussing religion though is often a futile exercise, and unless it's against someone as entertaining as BalloonGuy it just causes heart burn ;)I enjoy reading the discussions, but unfortunately the theists are poorly represented here. There are much better forums where the contest is a little more even.Having added my 2 cents worth though I already feel myself getting caught up in the frustration of it all, so its time to move on.

[SilentSnow 1]

I enjoy reading the discussions, but unfortunately the theists are poorly represented here. There are much better forums where the contest is a little more even.Having added my 2 cents worth though I already feel myself getting caught up in the frustration of it all, so its time to move on.

Before you go, what religion forums do you think are decent? I guess I could just randomly try to find some, but there are so many out there that Im not sure where to look.Im looking for a place where they let you be as critical as you want, and people do a decent job of defending their view, yet it has some sort of cross section of religious views.

[Loismustdie 0]

What is a spiritual death? How do the disciples die 'spiritually'?I doesn't actually preclude Jesus from knowing. It would be sensible for him to include himself on that list. For example."I am going to say a number out loud and nobody knows what it is." If I already know what the number is the sentence still makes sense."I am going to say a number out loud and nobody knows what it is, not even me." Makes it perfectly clear.Even if he is in the dark he can still know a time frame. I don't know when your next birthday is, by my God (logic) tells me that it will happen in the next 12 months.As I said, that is a real stretch in English. In Greek it doesn't work at all.Well perhaps in future you will ascertain somebody's knowledge before writing it off.Really man, the way you treat people is disgusting. Sure, this is an internet forum and a lot of flaming and insults take place, but your attitude towards people and your dealings with others is just woeful. To look through your posts is to observe an endless stream of anger, confusion and disdain. You do yourself or your religion no favours.I was serious before when I said I think you should get help. Take a good long look at yourself Loismustdie, it's not the world out to get you. It's you out to get the world. Why is that?

Please. I am quick and to the point, and get treated like **** daily on this site. If I come across as blunt, it is because I haved dealt with all kinds of things on this site, and as laughable as some may find me, the feeling is mutual at times. What, should I pretend to be different? I would rather be real. Show me an endless stream of anger, and disdain. Disdain at times, but like I said the feeling is mutual. I rarely get angry. 2000 plus posts maybe 10 actual angry posts. I can live with that. Are you a bastion of perfection? No. Nobody is. Now, to your first point- "but my Father only." That's all I really have to say. "My Father only". Only his father knows- so, apparently the scripture you have saddled means something else. You can't get any more straightfoward then only my dad knows. Spiritual death. Happens all of the time. You know how when God talks of a lukewarm christian, he will spew them out of his mouth? Spiritual death. Contrary to popular belief one can lose the Holy Spirit, one can lose their hope of heaven. That would be spiritual death. The point is, that the scripture you think means one thing and only one could mean a number of things, but I can rule out what it doesn't mean by what I already know.

[Loismustdie 0]

Thanks. I won't be sticking around though. I felt the need to jump in here as some of the posts were just horrific. Sometimes an argument needs to presented to keep the impresionable informed of reality.Discussing religion though is often a futile exercise, and unless it's against someone as entertaining as BalloonGuy it just causes heart burn ;)I enjoy reading the discussions, but unfortunately the theists are poorly represented here. There are much better forums where the contest is a little more even.Having added my 2 cents worth though I already feel myself getting caught up in the frustration of it all, so its time to move on.

Bye.

[pokerfriendly 0]

Bye.

i enjoy reading about your wisdom about the bible so don't get hyper when some **** smack try's to affend you, keep the faith and all will work out in end literally

[Loismustdie 0]

i enjoy reading about your wisdom about the bible so don't get hyper when some **** smack try's to affend you, keep the faith and all will work out in end literally

I take it in stride. Truth is I enjoy 98% of these conversations, and wish I could just let it go sometimes. I cringe at the word, wisdom, though. Sure, I know some stuff, but I would not call me wise, not even close. I have the next 2 days off- I should post my story in those 2 days. People have asked me to, but it just seems to personal. Maybe I owe it to you all, though. I know I come across as arrogant at times, maybe if some of them heard the whole story they may understand where I am coming from a bit more.

[renaedawn 1]

I take it in stride. Truth is I enjoy 98% of these conversations, and wish I could just let it go sometimes. I cringe at the word, wisdom, though. Sure, I know some stuff, but I would not call me wise, not even close. I have the next 2 days off- I should post my story in those 2 days. People have asked me to, but it just seems to personal. Maybe I owe it to you all, though. I know I come across as arrogant at times, maybe if some of them heard the whole story they may understand where I am coming from a bit more.

I'd be interested to read it.*edit - Just to make sure I'm clear here - I'd be interested to read it because I'm interested in people and their stories, not because I think the story would make you any less crazy.