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Who Is Forced To Show?


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I play mainly online and am not sure what the correct rule is on this.I play in a home game occasionally and there is a guy there that never shows his cards unless he has you beat.If it goes to a showdown he always asks to see yours first, and then if he is beat he just mucks so you can never tell what he was playing with.Who is supposed to show first? The bettor or the caller?If the river card comes and I bet $10 and he calls, do I have to flip my cards up first or does he?Thanks for the help.

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I play mainly online and am not sure what the correct rule is on this.I play in a home game occasionally and there is a guy there that never shows his cards unless he has you beat.If it goes to a showdown he always asks to see yours first, and then if he is beat he just mucks so you can never tell what he was playing with.Who is supposed to show first? The bettor or the caller?If the river card comes and I bet $10 and he calls, do I have to flip my cards up first or does he?Thanks for the help.
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I play mainly online and am not sure what the correct rule is on this.I play in a home game occasionally and there is a guy there that never shows his cards unless he has you beat.If it goes to a showdown he always asks to see yours first, and then if he is beat he just mucks so you can never tell what he was playing with.Who is supposed to show first? The bettor or the caller?If the river card comes and I bet $10 and he calls, do I have to flip my cards up first or does he?Thanks for the help.
The bettor has to show. Pretty sure thats it. I just remember someone saying "I called you" to someone who was hesitant to show, thus making him show. In your scenario, you have to show.Your friend sounds like a real blast to play with.
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the agressor shows first... if he bets he shows if you bet you show first. that is with the river bet btw

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"Your friend sounds like a real blast to play with"I wouldn't exactly call him a friend. It isn't my cash game so I kind of have to play with whoever shows up. It is easy money so I put up with his BS but atleast now he will have to showwhen he bets first.Thanks for the quick responses.

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I wouldn't exactly call him a friend.
I wish I could be a fly on the wall when you try to enforce this rule on that jerkoff you play with. we pick up the action mid-hand-Non Showing Assclown: I'll bet $10Emmser: I call, show me what ya got.NSA: You show first.E: Nope, I called you. Rules state that you gotta show.NSA: Who told you that?E: My friendsNSA: Friends from where?E: The uh, um, Well see, here's the thing. Have you ever heard of Daniel Negreanu? Yeah, well he has this poker forum and I post over there. I help some people out with their poker games and such, anyway, I started a thread and asked...NSA: A thread? What the fuck is a thread? Show me the rule book.E: Serioulsy, I'm right. I'm telling you, Ron_Mexico said it's true.NSA: ...E: :sigh: Fine, two pairNSA: It's good. Don't ever fucking ask me to show my cards again, internet faggotHave fun.
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I play mainly online and am not sure what the correct rule is on this.I play in a home game occasionally and there is a guy there that never shows his cards unless he has you beat.If it goes to a showdown he always asks to see yours first, and then if he is beat he just mucks so you can never tell what he was playing with.Who is supposed to show first? The bettor or the caller?If the river card comes and I bet $10 and he calls, do I have to flip my cards up first or does he?Thanks for the help.
Your results may vary, depending on the moronity of the dealer and floorperson. I've seen every misinterpretation of these rules possible, and the start of a fistfight over this issue. Good luck unless you carry a copy of Robert's Rules in your pocket. That may not even be enough._____________________________________________http://www.pokercoach.us/RobsPkrRules4.htmSHOWDOWN1. A player must show all cards in the hand face-up on the table to win any part of the pot.2. Cards speak (cards read for themselves). The dealer assists in reading hands, but players are responsible for holding onto their cards until the winner is declared. Although verbal declarations as to the contents of a hand are not binding, deliberately miscalling a hand with the intent of causing another player to discard a winning hand is unethical and may result in forfeiture of the pot. (For more information on miscalling a hand see “Section 11 - Lowball,” Rule 15 and Rule 16.)3. Any player, dealer, or floorperson who sees an incorrect amount of chips put into the pot, or an error about to be made in awarding a pot, has an ethical obligation to point out the error. Please help us keep mistakes of this nature to a minimum.4. All losing hands will be killed by the dealer before a pot is awarded.5. Any player who has been dealt in may request to see any hand that has been called, even if the opponent's hand or the winning hand has been mucked. However, this is a privilege that may be revoked if abused. If a player other than the pot winner asks to see a hand that has been folded, that hand is dead. If the winning player asks to see a losing player’s hand, both hands are live, and the best hand wins.6. If you show cards to an active player during a deal, any player at the table has the right to see those exposed cards. Cards shown during or after a deal to a player not in the pot should be shown to all players when the deal is finished.7. If everyone checks (or is all-in) on the final betting round, the player who acted first is the first to show the hand. If there is wagering on the final betting round, the last player to take aggressive action by a bet or raise is the first to show the hand. In order to speed up the game, a player holding a probable winner is encouraged to show the hand without delay. If there is a side pot, players involved in the side pot should show their hands before anyone who is all-in for only the main pot.
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encourage your host to define the rules of that particular game. the game is the same from place to place, but the small details like this can vary. printing up a copy of robert's rules would be a good start. the host can make adjustments as he sees fit, as long as they're in place for anyone to see.if you're going by robert's rules, pay special attention to point 5 in the previous post. technically in your scenario, you can ask to see his hand even after he mucks. the reason this rule is there is to check suspected collusion. otherwise it's a dick thing to do. notice it also says the privilege can be revoked if abused.so in your situation, lets say other guy bets and you call. you make him show first and he wins, so you muck. he can legally ask to see your hand. if he does it repeatedly, get the host to back him off.

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I play in a home game occasionally and there is a guy there that never shows his cards unless he has you beat.If it goes to a showdown he always asks to see yours first, and then if he is beat he just mucks so you can never tell what he was playing with.
thats bull-****....if its going to a showdown then BOTH players show their hand. If you go to a showdown and he asks you to show your cards first, tell him to kiss your *** and flip them over together. This guy sounds like a jerk
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thats bull-****....if its going to a showdown then BOTH players show their hand. If you go to a showdown and he asks you to show your cards first, tell him to kiss your *** and flip them over together. This guy sounds like a jerk
You don't play a lot of live poker do you? :)If river is checked, closest to the button shows first and anyone behind him can fold or show then, in order of their position behind the button.If someone bets the river and someone calls, whoever bets shows first.You might think its bull, but thats how it is.Mark
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You don't play a lot of live poker do you? :)If river is checked, closest to the button shows first and anyone behind him can fold or show then, in order of their position behind the button.If someone bets the river and someone calls, whoever bets shows first.You might think its bull, but thats how it is.Mark
But you always show Mark, cause you've always got the nuts :club:
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I wish I could be a fly on the wall when you try to enforce this rule on that jerkoff you play with. we pick up the action mid-hand-Non Showing Assclown: I'll bet $10Emmser: I call, show me what ya got.NSA: You show first.E: Nope, I called you. Rules state that you gotta show.NSA: Who told you that?E: My friendsNSA: Friends from where?E: The uh, um, Well see, here's the thing. Have you ever heard of Daniel Negreanu? Yeah, well he has this poker forum and I post over there. I help some people out with their poker games and such, anyway, I started a thread and asked...NSA: A thread? What the fuck is a thread? Show me the rule book.E: Serioulsy, I'm right. I'm telling you, Ron_Mexico said it's true.NSA: ...E: :sigh: Fine, two pairNSA: It's good. Don't ever fucking ask me to show my cards again, internet faggotHave fun.
This was my favorite post in the history of ever. And yeah, this guy sounds like a real treat to play with. I hate it when people take the low stakes home game and try to turn it in to the WSOP. Odds are there isn't any real money being won or lost at this game, who cares who shows what?
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You don't play a lot of live poker do you? :)If river is checked, closest to the button shows first and anyone behind him can fold or show then, in order of their position behind the button.If someone bets the river and someone calls, whoever bets shows first.You might think its bull, but thats how it is.Mark
This is one of those "not always/not everywhere" rules that DNF posters love to argue about. IMHO, the player that took the last aggressive action , no matter what street, should show first. Why go by the order of the button???
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This is one of those "not always/not everywhere" rules that DNF posters love to argue about. IMHO, the player that took the last aggressive action , no matter what street, should show first. Why go by the order of the button???
Because that's the rule.If I think that I have a winner, I show. If I'm unsure, I say, "do you have anything?"
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the agressor shows first... if he bets he shows if you bet you show first. that is with the river bet btw
This is wrong, Roberts Rules is wrong on this as well. It is Bullshit that the aggressor on the river has to show first. This is wrong. It should be clockwise from the button, meaning SB shows first, then BB, EP, MP, LP, and finally the button. The "aggressor shows first" rules out the positional advange a player has. If it is HU between me and a player in the BB, they check, I bet, and the call, they should show first. They player in position has the right to see what they are called by. If I bet that river with a bluff, and I am called, I should not have to show my hand unless someone asks to see it after I muck.
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I really have nothing to add except to say that Ron Mexico was hilarious as always.The people in this thread have it right, the aggressor shows first, if the river is checked then it goes clockwise from the button (i.e. small blind would show first I believe). The problem with all of this of course is that it's a home game. If you try to quote actual rules like that in a home game you're likely gonna get razzed for taking the game too seriously and being a nerd. Furthermore, people probably won't follow the rules anyway. Personally, I really would hate to play with this guy you described and might even refuse to play or kick him out of the game (if you have that authority) if he's not willing to follow the rules.

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This is wrong, Roberts Rules is wrong on this as well. It is Bullshit that the aggressor on the river has to show first. This is wrong. It should be clockwise from the button, meaning SB shows first, then BB, EP, MP, LP, and finally the button. The "aggressor shows first" rules out the positional advange a player has. If it is HU between me and a player in the BB, they check, I bet, and the call, they should show first. They player in position has the right to see what they are called by. If I bet that river with a bluff, and I am called, I should not have to show my hand unless someone asks to see it after I muck.
So, I guess that the Tournament Director's Association rules are wrong too. Right?

At the end of last round of betting, the player who made the lastaggressive action in that betting round must show first. If there was nobet the player to the left of the button shows first and so on clockwise. Instud games, the player with the high board must show first. In razz, thelowest board shows first.

The rest of the civilized world is wrong?#37 at http://www.pokertda.com/rules.pdf

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I wouldn't exactly call him a friend. It isn't my cash game so I kind of have to play with whoever shows up. It is easy money so I put up with his BS but atleast now he will have to showwhen he bets first.
Don't do it. If you really are taking his money, just let it go. A good lesson to learn early is to always leave a man his pride if you can. That way, he will give you more of his money. The bad feeling that can result will not be good for the game and will spill over onto the other players. If you are winning - let it go.
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Arguing about what the rules "should be" is pretty pointless as these are fairly arbitrary rules. BTW, I believe that FTP does it as 13cards suggested and the last aggressor on any street shows first.Playing live you always have the ability to muck if you don't want to show. I've picked off river bluffs and had the opponent throw away their cards rather than expose them. Pretty dumb in my mind since I've picked off river bluffs with as little as A high and there's always a chance that what you think is a bluff is actually the best hand. And by mucking you reveal that you're willing to bluff bet the river anyway.My guess in your typical home game situation is that the host hasn't even considered the rule. Next time it comes up I suggest you ask the host for a ruling and ask that everyone be bound to that ruling. With rules like this that are somewhat arbitrary it doesn't much matter what the rule is so long as there is a rule and it's enforced consistently.

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