What's The Lowest Limit...

[Faustus 0]

I was talking to a friend of mine last week about the feasibility of earning a living by playing online poker. He was adament that you'd have to play at a pretty high level, $5-$10 minimum (NLHE). When I said I thought it was possible playing $0.05-$0.10 he thought I was crazy. He told some more of our friends, who also thought I was crazy, and they all had a good laugh.Here is my reasoning: The games at those limits are beatable. If I play 4 tables at once I believe that, on average, every hour I could double my money from a standard 100xBB buy-in at each table. So at $0.05-$0.10 I believe I could earn $10 per table every hour, making $40 an hour. This is roughly £20 for me in England, which is a pretty damn good hourly rate. My friends say that winning so consistently and not having major losing streaks would be impossible. Would it? The standard on those tables I believe is so beatable that I can easily chip away at people and, when it comes to the big pots I back myself to make the right decisions. I can only go broke with an absolute cold deck, surely?I'm 18yo but have been playing poker most of my life with family. For the last 3 and a half years I've been playing poker with friends after introducing them to the game and we play a fair bit, home games and online. Now, being 18 is a problem, cos I have a very low bankroll. I've been playing online for 6 months or so on various sites, and have won a few hundred (around $400 I think) from the original min deposit of $50 on PartyPoker, by playing SNGs mostly. Cash games are a whole new ball game for me. So after my convo with my friends I was determined to prove them wrong. I looked for the cheapest cash games I could find, $0.01-$0.02 on PokerStars. I didn't have an account there anymore so I redeposited $50. In the six following days I took $2 to 4 tables at a time, and I played for about 2 hours each day. Six days on and I have $135. By my calculations that works out at just over $7 an hour. Playing $0.01-$0.02!!! If I kept up the same winning pace at even $0.02-$0.05, I would be earning $14 an hour which is more than I'd get working in a supermarket or wherever else an 18yo can get a job.So, is it possible? Is it possible to maintain such a winning record, or have I just hit a winning streak? Is the standard much higher playing $0.05-$0.10 compared to $0.01-$0.02? Here is the main problem I have considered so far. At the very cheapest level the players can be suicidal. In an hour's play, I might win most of the money in a couple hands from just one or two players who play so ridiculously, I think they only do it because it is the very cheapest level. In my limited cash game experience I have found $0.05-$0.10 quite a bit tighter with fewer completely reckless players. But I really believe I can do it.My plan now is to start moving up stakes on one table at a time for a few days, then another until all four tables I'm at $0.02-$0.05, then one table move upto $0.05-$0.10, then another, and so on. I'm interested to hear if anyone else has tried this or has any feedback, and I will update you in another week on how I have got on.

[asytnik 0]

Well, you admit to having a limited cash game experience and your sample size is wayyyyyyyyyyyyyyy too small. Get Pokertracker, log like 10,000 hands or more and then you'll have a fairly rough estimate of how many BBs/hour you can make. Also, the level of play from .01/.02 to 1/2 isn't that much different, imo. My opinion would be to keep your job, rack up a stake for 1/2, then play that all while working. Then if it works out quit your job.

[psujohn 0]

It's generally considered that a win rate of 10 PTBB/100 is killing a game. Let's be super generous and say you can do 20 PTBB/100 at micros and your winrate won't decline when you multi-table. Assume you get 50 hands/hour you're looking at 10 PTBB/hr or 20 BB/hr so at .05/.10 you're looking at $2/table hour. I don't know if you can live on $8/hr but I sure can't. I don't think you need to play 5/10 NL to make a living but I'd say at least 1/2.

[the shank 0]

i dont think you can make a buy in an hour playing nlhe at any level below 05c10c and it would be a challenge to do it there as well, not to mentions games bigger than that. you might be able to come semi close though

[scram 1]

It all depends on what you consider to be a good hourly wage. I am convinced that a low-stakes grind is best done at medium-low limit levels (3-6, 5-10). Here, you're only on the hook to bank a few big bets per hour in order to make well above "shitty job" pay levels.At a NL table, you have the potential to grab someones entire stack- conversely, you have that same potential to lose yours. With NL, you can certainly sit a low table and take advantage of peoples "curiosity" with a lot of early bluffing, then stupid overbets with big hands which often times get paid off since no one really cares about the $5 or $10 it takes to do it (since "catching you bluffing" means more to them than losing the money), but it is a lot riskier and your variance will be huge- not to mention that even microstakes players can figure out how to adapt against "gimmick play" like that. IMO, if "not working" is your goal, you're better off learning how to beat the low-medium stakes limit games (LHE, Stud, HORSE, Razz) than you are trying to make a living at microstakes no limit games.

[David_Nicoson 1]

[chgocubs99 0]

No. Once you start 4 tabling for 40 hours a week your play will probably start to decline. You know how hard that is? Try it for a month and tell me you don't start feeling burned out. You need to play higher, like someone else said, at least 1-2, and need to be very disciplined to play that low and also be a very good player to boot, because your amount of tables x number of hours played must decrease.

[Skittles 0]

It's generally considered that a win rate of 10 PTBB/100 is killing a game. Let's be super generous and say you can do 20 PTBB/100 at micros and your winrate won't decline when you multi-table. Assume you get 50 hands/hour you're looking at 10 PTBB/hr or 20 BB/hr so at .05/.10 you're looking at $2/table hour. I don't know if you can live on $8/hr but I sure can't. I don't think you need to play 5/10 NL to make a living but I'd say at least 1/2.

I know someone who plays 1/2 NL for a living, not sure how much he makes though, certainly not a baller.

[Faustus 0]

I see that people think it's unlikely and in truth I agree. I know it's a long shot, but we can all have that dream right? Something to aspire to? I have no intention of giving up my schooling/part-time job for poker just yet lol.I wasn't soo much talking about going out and earning a living straight away, I was more talking about building my bankroll up by playing the micro stakes and then move up stakes as my bankroll moves up. IF it works I don't intend to stop at 0.05/0.10, obviously. However I would still bet that a good enough player could make a nice income from the mico limit games. I agree that $1/$2 seems a more realistic level for what I have in mind, but I don't reckon my roll or my cash game is up for that yet, so I'm going to work my way up from the micros with that as the goal at the end.

[scram 1]

It's best to start off building your roll, then establish yourself at a stake you're comfortable at and a consistent winner, then use poker earnings to supplement your working income rather than "as" your income. When/If you reach the point you're making so much money that going to work just doesn't make sense anymore, that will come naturally. It isn't something you can really "force" as a matter of will and if you try, you're in for serious heartache when you hit severe downward variance and find yourself tapped out and without a job.Build roll, supplement income, repeat.IMO, the "income supplemental" phase of a poker career is the best time to use your winnings to invest in instruments with a good yield. This gives you a more solid footing should you decide to make the jump from part time player to "as a living" player. Don't use your cash-outs to buy crap like Rolexes and more plasma TV's- use it to buy bonds, solid equities and RE- good health insurance, a well stocked emergency fund, etc.

[iowahawk09 0]

I don't know about you guys, but making the right decision at these stakes doesn't always get you paid off. In fact, with the maniacs at this level, you can have very bad sessions simply from the bad beats your bound to take by shoving it in with these reckless donkeys.In the long run, it will be profitable from them to continue to make these plays, but from your plan to build a bankroll (which is entirely possible) or make a living (which it would be a shitty life) you seem to be very optimistic about your win rate.Just throwing it out there that your not gonna having a winning session every time regardless of how easy the games are. And at your low $/hr. win rate. You can't afford that.So stick with your job and build up a roll, and move up to at least 1/2

[Sunny 0]

The last time I went broke I 10-tabled $10NL and made >30BB/100 over 10,000 hands. With that many hands I never felt the effects of variance.After playing higher levels I really loved playing at this level, I could make $100/day easy without having to think, I could just sit back and enjoy playing because I knew I could never lose.In every session you inevitably lose a couple buyins but you don't care because it's $10... after you continuously have +10 buyin sessions a loss doesn't matter and you can keep playing your game.Personally I'd recommend this to everyone who's gone bust and/or sick of the game.

[asytnik 0]

It's best to start off building your roll, then establish yourself at a stake you're comfortable at and a consistent winner, then use poker earnings to supplement your working income rather than "as" your income. When/If you reach the point you're making so much money that going to work just doesn't make sense anymore, that will come naturally. It isn't something you can really "force" as a matter of will and if you try, you're in for serious heartache when you hit severe downward variance and find yourself tapped out and without a job.Build roll, supplement income, repeat.IMO, the "income supplemental" phase of a poker career is the best time to use your winnings to invest in instruments with a good yield. This gives you a more solid footing should you decide to make the jump from part time player to "as a living" player. Don't use your cash-outs to buy crap like Rolexes and more plasma TV's- use it to buy bonds, solid equities and RE- good health insurance, a well stocked emergency fund, etc.

Priceless. Listen to this man!

[iowahawk09 0]

I agree, hit the nail on the head, dont force itIf your winning consistently and you no longer need a job to support yourself, then by all means quit, but let it come naturally

[mtdesmoines 3]

I was talking to a friend of mine last week ..(BLAH BLAH BLAH) ... I will update you in another week on how I have got on.

OP, good luck. PS: I don't see this post starting anything at all.

[koolromeo 0]

is that a pic of ernest t. bass?

[DunkinDonuts 0]

Don't use your cash-outs to buy crap like Rolexes

Some Rolex models are an investment.That's all I have to contribute.

[iowahawk09 0]

Some Rolex models are an investment.That's all I have to contribute.

Who doesnt like a good rolex?

[litlebullet 0]

1/2 nl sounds about right.

[mtdesmoines 3]

is that a pic of ernest t. bass?

it's me, it's me, it's earnest t

[No_Neck 0]

1/2 nl sounds about right.

you can do it with rakeback bonus playing at .50/1.00 if you are an experienced multitabler. If you can play 6 tables you can get about you will have about 60 hands an hour 6 hours a day you will play 2160 hands per day 5 days a week equals 10,800 hands per week or 43200 hands per month.Now assuming you can beat the game for 4ptbb/100 that = $3456.00 now assuming you have rakeback those numbers are going to change. I think all of those numbers are correct.

[WhiteSpade 0]

log like 10,000 hands or more and then you'll have a fairly rough estimate of how many BBs/hour you can make

Is 10,000 hands at all close to a reasonable sample size? I think that has got to be way to small. Correct me if I'm wrong. If that's the case, I'm better than I think I am.

[Dratj 0]

No

[No_Neck 0]

Is 10,000 hands at all close to a reasonable sample size? I think that has got to be way to small. Correct me if I'm wrong. If that's the case, I'm better than I think I am.

I think it is honestly more like 100k hands.

[aucu 3]

I know of guys who are pro at $0.25-0.$50 NL not living a high life or anything but it can be done if you want to bottom feed.