What If Anything Could I Have Done Diff?

[shrimp4789 0]

Hate people who chase against pot odds, and I did my best (so i think) to stop him getting those odds to call, yet he wouldnt fold. I knew he was chasing as if he had a J he would have raised. Yeah, I could be up against a FH, but I just didnt put him on that kind of hand as I would have thought that he would have raised preflop with QJ......anything I could have done differently?Blinds are now $0.10/$0.25 CO - $17.85 Button - $25.74 Villian - $25.16 BB - $30.70UTG - $27.09 UTG + 1 - $25 MP1 - $25 (posts as 1st hand at table)MP2 - $47.45 MP3 - $7.90 Hero - $88.98 Hero has J A 2 folds1 checks 1 foldsMP3 calls $0.25 Hero raises to $1 2 foldsVillian calls $1 1 folds MP1 calls $1 MP3 calls $1 Pot = $4.15Flop is J J Q :heart:Villian bets $0.25 MP1 calls $0.25 MP3 calls $0.25 Hero raises to $4 Villian calls $4 2 foldsPot = $12.65Turn 2:spade:Villian bets $1 Hero raises to $8 Villian calls $8 Pot = $28.65River 4 :heart:Villian bets $2 Hero....calls?I was positive he hit his flush now, but couldnt fold for $2........anyone disagree?

[Zach6668 513]

nh.Although I prolly raise a bit more on both the flop and turn.

[trystero 0]

Standard call. Be glad he's an idiot and didn't really put you to a tough decision on the river.

[Kwest4chipz 0]

yah 2 bucks into a 28 pot i think thats an auto call, but i've already proven my stupidity on another thread. I think its an auto just because its so little an amount and he may not have been chasing a flush..he could have a J with a kicker he thinks is good. If he did catch the flush, I don't really see a way you coulda played it different...If he chases flushes like that all the time with such big bets and raises.....i'm thinking thats probably -ev, but if you can keep him at the table it might just be +ev for you.

[shrimp4789 0]

yeah thinkin back about it now, had i known he chases, i would have definately bet harder mainly on the flop, maybe $6, and if called, prob pushed about $14 on turn......just pissed me off that i knew he was chasing and i couldnt push him off it

[Zach6668 513]

yeah thinkin back about it now, had i known he chases, i would have definately bet harder mainly on the flop, maybe $6, and if called, prob pushed about $14 on turn......just pissed me off that i knew he was chasing and i couldnt push him off it

You don't WANT to push him off of it.People are so concerned with winning pots.Your goal is to win money.

[ChrisRichey 1]

Your goal is to win money.

Exactly. Poker is a long-term game, don't get caught up with the way one hand plays out.

[linkwood 0]

just to reiterate what everyone is saying, you should actually, in a sick way, be glad that you get drawn out on like this sometimes. if the donkeys never drew out on us then they would stop putting in their money bad. just ask yourself, what do the casinos do when someone hits the jackpot? they put their picture on a billboard.

[shrimp4789 0]

You don't WANT to push him off of it.People are so concerned with winning pots.Your goal is to win money.

Yes......however I DO want to push him off by the turn......id would rather win a pot by the turn of like $15 rather than chance the guy either hitting the flush or not. I know you say this is a long term thing, but I want to know what to do in this situation in the future.......you think if i had pushed all-in on turn he would have called?

just to reiterate what everyone is saying, you should actually, in a sick way, be glad that you get drawn out on like this sometimes. if the donkeys never drew out on us then they would stop putting in their money bad. just ask yourself, what do the casinos do when someone hits the jackpot? they put their picture on a billboard.

Yes I understand this, and its great, it just pisses me off when it happens. lol

[Zach6668 513]

Yes......however I DO want to push him off by the turn......id would rather win a pot by the turn of like $15 rather than chance the guy either hitting the flush or not. I know you say this is a long term thing, but I want to know what to do in this situation in the future.......you think if i had pushed all-in on turn he would have called?

ipwr3jglkw;jglkwqjglkwjeglk;wqjdglwkdgNo.You WANT him to call getting bad odds.If you push all in, and he folds, how much more money do you win?ZERO dollars.If he calls your pot size bet, how much more money do you win?80% of your pot size bet!Which is more?I can't stress this concept enough.

[linkwood 0]

Yes......however I DO want to push him off by the turn......id would rather win a pot by the turn of like $15 rather than chance the guy either hitting the flush or not. I know you say this is a long term thing, but I want to know what to do in this situation in the future.......you think if i had pushed all-in on turn he would have called?

i think you're missing the point. you ask the question because you want to know how to make him fold, but you should be really asking because you want to get in as much money as possible with the best hand. you may know this but i don't think you really understand it. if your opponent is drawing to a better hand than yours, such as in this situation, you bet, not because you don't want him to call, but because you want him to give you money. when people put money in the pot without the correct odds with a worse hand than yours you win money. if they always made the correct fold you wouldn't make as much money. the point of poker is to force your opponents to make mistakes. if you try to bet enough to force your opponent to fold in this spot then you're playing in order to make your opponent play correctly. if you know your opponent will call an all in with just a flush draw then you should push in every time. that's how you make the most money in poker.

[Acid_Knight 2]

I can't stress this concept enough.

If you had a bigger font size available, you could try.Oh, and obviously you're like 1,000,000,000% correct. People will understand someday.

[timwakefield 68]

ipwr3jglkw;jglkwqjglkwjeglk;wqjdglwkdg

QFTYou don't want to push him off his draw.

[dms26 3]

yeah thinkin back about it now, had i known he chases, i would have definately bet harder mainly on the flop, maybe $6, and if called, prob pushed about $14 on turn......just pissed me off that i knew he was chasing and i couldnt push him off it

I like the flop raise, you don't want to scare off a Q. But on the turn you probably should have potted it. Although I don't think it changes anything, you still didn't give him odds to chase. On the river you can't fold.

[mtdesmoines 3]

Yes I understand this, and its great, it just pisses me off when it happens. lol

Saw it explained like this: when holding a 60% favorite hand, you win two, villain wins two and you get the third one. The beats seem less ferocious and the odds become more real then.

[mtdesmoines 3]

... People will understand someday.

Jesus Christ man ... are you INSANE? This **** gets out and the game will get that much tougher. Just keep quiet, OK?

[dms26 3]

Yes......however I DO want to push him off by the turn......id would rather win a pot by the turn of like $15 rather than chance the guy either hitting the flush or not. I know you say this is a long term thing, but I want to know what to do in this situation in the future.......you think if i had pushed all-in on turn he would have called?

Let's say if you push on the turn he folds, you win about $14.Now let's say you raise to 8 and he calls, when he hits he's going to bet $2 every time. You push = winning $14 each time , so you'd win $70 if this happens 5 timesYou value-betting = you win $30 4 out of every 5 roughly, you lose $34 1 out of 5. You'd win $86 total.I think I'm calculating this right?You gain more by letting your opponents make mistakes. Don't always try to just push them out where they are only calling if they have you beat, there is no value in that.

[Mikey Ravioli 0]

I am guilty of this as well. I made a comment yesterday that in a cash game I will take a pot down any time I can rather then risk losing it to build it up. Zach called me on it and I was thinking about it last night. While you guys are 100% correct, its hard to see those chips in the middle and know you could have them right now. I need to work on my patience.

[petersun 0]

Let's say if you push on the turn he folds, you win about $14.Now let's say you raise to 8 and he calls, when he hits he's going to bet $2 every time. You push = winning $14 each time , so you'd win $70 if this happens 5 timesYou value-betting = you win $30 4 out of every 5 roughly, you lose $34 1 out of 5. You'd win $86 total.I think I'm calculating this right?You gain more by letting your opponents make mistakes. Don't always try to just push them out where they are only calling if they have you beat, there is no value in that.

This is more correct in thinking. Your concern is not to chase him out, but to get his money the 2/3 of the time he doesn't hit and to not lose much on the river (or turn) the 1/3 of the time he does hit.

[cMcMonkey 0]

People will understand someday.

God, I hope not. I understand it sucks to lose a pot you were sure you'd win, but if you can't see how its a good thing you're leaving a ton of money on the table. There are tons of explanations about why in every poker book and magazine and forum. You're hand is not the winner until the last card is dealt and all bets completed. In essence you're both drawing on the turn, you're just drawing to the 35 non-flush cards while he's drawing to his 9 flush cards. You're betting that you'll hit your blank (or 2 blanks if on the flop), Sometimes you'll be wrong but since you have a much better chance of hitting a blank, its a good bet. Same with someone willing to pay you 3:1 on guessing a coinflip. You might get a couple wrong, but the correct ones will more than pay for the wrong ones.

[shrimp4789 0]

ipwr3jglkw;jglkwqjglkwjeglk;wqjdglwkdgNo.You WANT him to call getting bad odds.If you push all in, and he folds, how much more money do you win?ZERO dollars.If he calls your pot size bet, how much more money do you win?80% of your pot size bet!Which is more?I can't stress this concept enough.

LOL ok ok, i get it. it does make more sense to do that, and I suppose I will make more money in the long run............thanks guys

[Zach6668 513]

LOL ok ok, i get it.

And Acid Knight mocked my giant font teaching techniques.Be careful guys, my teaching methods are revolutionary. There have been rumblings of DN's new book coming out in giant font to better emphasize his points.

[No_Neck 0]

If you had a bigger font size available, you could try.Oh, and obviously you're like 1,000,000,000% correct. People will understand someday.

I hope they never do.

[shrimp4789 0]

And Acid Knight mocked my giant font teaching techniques.Be careful guys, my teaching methods are revolutionary. There have been rumblings of DN's new book coming out in giant font to better emphasize his points.

LOL wasnt quite your huge font that did it, but yeah still quite funny