Sooooo Confused

[dms26 3]

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.25 BB (9 handed) Hand History Converter Tool from FlopTurnRiver.com (Format: FCP)UTG ($24.25)UTG+1 ($7.91)Hero ($23.90)MP2 ($23.40)MP3 ($15)CO ($15.24)Button ($23.60)SB ($2.15)BB ($24.75)Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A , Q . 1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1, 1 fold, MP3 calls $1, 1 fold, Button calls $1, SB calls $0.90, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.75.Flop: ($5.25) Q , K , 6 (5 players)SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks, Button checks.Turn: ($5.25) 6 (5 players)SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 bets $1.25, Button calls $1.25, SB folds, UTG+1 calls $1.25, Hero ???No real reads, haven't been at the table long and haven't seen any big hands. Does anyone bet the flop up against 4 others?

[simo_8ball 1]

I don't mind checking the flop, but you should definitely bet the turn. As played, I don't know. I probably call getting what, 7/1?

[fatman 1]

I would raise more pre-flop. With a limper in front of me I like to raise 4xbb + 1bb for every limper. So in this case I would raise it up to $1.25. I would bet the turn as well but as played call the turn bet and the proceed cautiously.

[Snamuh 0]

I would call, not expecting to win the pot u/i. I don't see what MP3 bets here that he doesn't bet the flop other than a 6 or a weak king.

[Ricer98 0]

Preflop: I agree with fatman, raise more. Flop: I am offically done with this hand right here. There is no reason to bet here as it tells us nothing of where we stand. We get flat called by a weak king, flush draws, straight draws. Even though we get called by hands we beat, any call has to make you hate your hand regardless. Turn: I don't like leading out here, as I said I'm done with this hand on the flop. With the board and number of players in the hand on the flop, everyone has to be worried that they are beat. Strong to mid range hands that would normally bet into less opponents probably don't in this case. Assuming we have the best hand because it was checked around on the flop is bad logic here. Such a small bet into 4 players, not good. This is a 6 or a king 99% of the time. A king needs to bet more to protect their hand from all the draws present, so odds are its a 6. Two flat calls behind, there is no possible way we have the best hand here. Calling here is horrible in my opinion, regardless of pot odds. The only card I would want to see is a queen on the river. 1 of the other 3 aces completes the spade flush draw, the other two complete a J-10 straight draw. I think an ace on the river only leads to us losing more money in the long run. Even if we catch the queen the odds we get paid off enough to warrant the gamble are extremely slim.

[mtdesmoines 2]

Dump it. Too many callers. And since you have so many callers, one of them is calling any bet and prolly beating you.

[Acid_Knight 2]

I fold the turn here. I think it's a pretty standard fold too.Guy 1 bet and is already called by 2 other people. You don't have top pair and you're not drawing to anything. If one of them has K2o and the other has JTo, you have 2 outs. Yeah, there are a lot of draws out there and one of more of them is certainly drawing. Yeah, it's a cheap admission price, but I don't wanna pay it here.You'll gain some information anyway since 3 people are going to showdown and you'll get to see the winning hand. Yeah, you might be winning here, but I doubt it. If you are ahead, you gotta dodge a ton of scare cards and probably call another bet on the river to find out. If you're behind, you're drawing very slim, even to Kx.

[dms26 3]

I really wanted to fold but the price I was being laid was just too tempting so like a pay off wizard I called. I figured the odds of someone having a 6 was slim since it was a raised pot preflop, so It would most likely be something like A6s 56s 76s. I also thought that if someone had a K I would hear from them on the flop. It seemed the 6 wasn't a bad card for me, and felt I was good here 1 in 7 times. If I'm MP3 I'm taking a shot with a lot of hands that don't include a 6 or K. Maybe that's bad thinking since so many draws can hit the river? But I'm not calling a big bet on the river either.So now the pot is ~ 11.00The river card is a total blank offsuit 4, checked around to MP3 who bets again but only bets 1.75. Everyone folds to me so I'm guaranteed a showdown if I call. Hero??Thanks for the replies so farAs for preflop action my standard opening raise is .85 (pot raise). So if I pot it here with a limper it's 1.10 instead of the $1 I raised. Is anyone folding for 1.10 (or 1.25 as suggested) but calling 1? Raising anymore than 1.25 seems like overkill and bloats the pot more than I'd like with just AQo.

[mtdesmoines 2]

I really wanted to fold but the price I was being laid was just too tempting so like a pay off wizard I called. I figured the odds of someone having a 6 was slim since it was a raised pot preflop, so It would most likely be something like A6s 56s 76s. I also thought that if someone had a K I would hear from them on the flop. It seemed the 6 wasn't a bad card for me, and felt I was good here 1 in 7 times. If I'm MP3 I'm taking a shot with a lot of hands that don't include a 6 or K. Maybe that's bad thinking since so many draws can hit the river? But I'm not calling a big bet on the river either.So now the pot is ~ 11.00The river card is a total blank offsuit 4, checked around to MP3 who bets again but only bets 1.75. Everyone folds to me so I'm guaranteed a showdown if I call. Hero??Thanks for the replies so far

The price is now right to lose your $1.75.You could also shove and steal the pot from a weak K.

[No_Neck 0]

I really wanted to fold but the price I was being laid was just too tempting so like a pay off wizard I called. I figured the odds of someone having a 6 was slim since it was a raised pot preflop, so It would most likely be something like A6s 56s 76s. I also thought that if someone had a K I would hear from them on the flop. It seemed the 6 wasn't a bad card for me, and felt I was good here 1 in 7 times. If I'm MP3 I'm taking a shot with a lot of hands that don't include a 6 or K. Maybe that's bad thinking since so many draws can hit the river? But I'm not calling a big bet on the river either.So now the pot is ~ 11.00The river card is a total blank offsuit 4, checked around to MP3 who bets again but only bets 1.75. Everyone folds to me so I'm guaranteed a showdown if I call. Hero??Thanks for the replies so far

I bet the flop, not big but I do bet it, I see what you mean about the turn bet, calling there. I don't mind calling the river, given you are getting good price.

[Acid_Knight 2]

It seemed the 6 wasn't a bad card for me, and felt I was good here 1 in 7 times.

The reason that you fold is becuase this isn't the river where you're making your decision. There is another street and another round where you will possibly face a bet. The 6-1 or 7-1 pot odds, while tempting, do not represent the actual price that you will pay to get to showdown. The fact is that you don't know what your showdown price will be. If you call on the turn and a blank rolls off, what do you do when faced with another bet that may be bigger? Since the 4 rolls off on the river and he bets a ridiculously small amount again, you obviously gotta pay him off. I'm still not a fan of calling on the turn.

[Ricer98 0]

As for preflop action my standard opening raise is .85 (pot raise). So if I pot it here with a limper it's 1.10 instead of the $1 I raised. Is anyone folding for 1.10 (or 1.25 as suggested) but calling 1? Raising anymore than 1.25 seems like overkill and bloats the pot more than I'd like with just AQo.

I'd say most of the time, no the addition 10 or 25 cents probably won't make a huge deciding factor as to if they call or fold. Against some players it might though. From watching quite a few of the videos on cardrunners this is outlined as the play with limpers in front. The logic being, its larger than the standard raise of 3x the big blind as a way to "punish" the player for limping in. It forces them to call a more than standard raise out of position. As for everyone behind us, they are forced to call 5x the big blind as well. Its this difference I think that makes the play optimal. Forcing them to call 1.25 to play the pot instead of the standard 0.75, could very well be a big enough difference to induce folds from tight players. Your decision on the river is exactly why you just dump this hand on the turn. Calling one small bet leads to calling another on the river most of the time. I HATE HATE HATE justifying a call on the river because of pot odds. What does he bet twice, into 4 players on the turn and 3 on the river, that can't beat 2nd pair? Absolutely friggin' nothin! Put yourself in the villians spot. Say it was you who lead the turn and recieved 3 callers. Do you bet AQ or maybe JJ again in that spot? I seriously hope not. Would he really bet that little with a busted draw knowing 3 players are getting over 6.5-1 odds? A busted draw would not want to get called and therefore bet more, regardless of if he knew it was why he was betting more or not.I agree with mtdesmoines, me might be able to blow a weak K off the hand. I doubt it would work too many times though, probably not enough to gain a positive return over the long run. I'd prefer making a pot sized or a little less bet instead of a push. Simply for the fact I think they both have about the same fold equity but we lose less the times we get called. The problem with this play is that if were against a weak player, they probably call anyway. Against a good player, they pick up this is a bluff fairly easily. The 4 on the river could not have helped us. All the draws missed. What hand would we give free cards to 4 opponents twice. I think the only hand we could slow play on the turn given our preflop raise would be KK or QQ. But if we had that hand we wouldn't risk slow playing the flop with so many players and draws present. 66 would be in same boat as KK or QQ, we would have bet the flop. Any 6 has an easy call or reraise. A king as well is an easy call as K2 is chopping the pot with KJ here.

[dms26 3]

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with A , Q . 1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.25, Hero raises to $1, 1 fold, MP3 calls $1, 1 fold, Button calls $1, SB calls $0.90, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls $0.75.Flop: ($5.25) Q , K , 6 (5 players)SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks, Button checks.Turn: ($5.25) 6 (5 players)SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 bets $1.25, Button calls $1.25, SB folds, UTG+1 calls $1.25, Hero calls $1.25.River: ($10.25) 9 (4 players)UTG+1 checks, Hero checks, MP3 bets $1.75, Button folds, UTG+1 folds, Hero calls $1.75.Final Pot: $13.75Results in white below: Hero has Ad Qh (two pair, queens and sixes). MP3 has 7s 7h (two pair, sevens and sixes). Outcome: Hero wins $13.75. oops, so I guess the river wasn't a total blank as JT got there as well as a running flush. Anyway I was amazed I ended up winning the hand, but I'm not real happy with the way I played it. I don't think it was terrible since I got to showdown cheaply, but I probably should have led out on the turn.

[Ricer98 0]

I think the results are making you try to warrant this play. Its no different then say calling with an overpair and running into a set, you try to convince youself folding was the right play, when maybe calling was correct and you just got unlucky. This was the 1 time in 100 you have the best hand given the action. Jot down some notes on MP3, as he is one of the worst players I have ever seen, and raise every time he leads weak at a pot. I'm curious for an argument as why to lead the turn, and why to call down. I see countless flaws with both plays, this seems like a no brainer to me.

[Zach6668 513]

This was the 1 time in 100 you have the best hand given the action.

We're ahead significantly more than that. We beat every other queen. A king would have bet the flop. A 6 is unlikely.

[pokerinc 0]

At those stakes I play the hand the same way. Two weaks bets at that could def. be qj or 88, or what it ended up being 77. You are definitely good 1 in 6 times as played.

[dms26 3]

I think the results are making you try to warrant this play. Its no different then say calling with an overpair and running into a set, you try to convince youself folding was the right play, when maybe calling was correct and you just got unlucky. This was the 1 time in 100 you have the best hand given the action. Jot down some notes on MP3, as he is one of the worst players I have ever seen, and raise every time he leads weak at a pot. I'm curious for an argument as why to lead the turn, and why to call down. I see countless flaws with both plays, this seems like a no brainer to me.

I'm not trying to warrant the play, I said I wasn't real happy how I played it. I just didn't think MP3 had a K, he could be betting with anything on the turn after it checks through twice to him. His flaw was that he didn't bet enough. I admitted earlier that I should have probably folded the turn as played, but the river is a call every time. There are a lot of really bad players at this level who do things you can't explain. His bluff would have worked if he had bet more.Why should I lead the turn? Nobody has shown any interest in the pot, and if I bet $4 or so it gives an incorrect price for anyone that could be drawing. At that point why should I believe anyone has me beaten? Anyone who calls my raise should* have a good enough king to bet that flop, and very few hands with a 6 in it should be in the pot. I think you are way off when you say I'm only good 1 in 100 times, especially on the river. MP3 was noted

[Acid_Knight 2]

Nice hand sir.I think I'd fold the turn, see that the winning hand at showdown was 77 and make a note never to fold to that player again.

[dms26 3]

Nice hand sir.I think I'd fold the turn, see that the winning hand at showdown was 77 and make a note never to fold to that player again.

What about leading the turn, or even the flop? There also wouldn't have been a showdown.

[Acid_Knight 2]

What about leading the turn, or even the flop?

I don't mind checking the flop, but I'm going to assume that you're likely check-folding? I'd personally lead it and see how many times I get called and reevaluate my situation.I think a lead on the turn is appropriate. The 6 is unlikely to have helped anyone and it adds another flush draw out there. I'd prefer to take control of the hand here if you didn't already on the flop.

[mtdesmoines 2]

What about leading the turn, or even the flop? There also wouldn't have been a showdown.

I don't think you can't c-bet that flop. Stop checking flops when you've raised preflop.

[Ricer98 0]

I'm not trying to warrant the play, I said I wasn't real happy how I played it. I just didn't think MP3 had a K, he could be betting with anything on the turn after it checks through twice to him. His flaw was that he didn't bet enough. I admitted earlier that I should have probably folded the turn as played, but the river is a call every time. There are a lot of really bad players at this level who do things you can't explain. His bluff would have worked if he had bet more.Why should I lead the turn? Nobody has shown any interest in the pot, and if I bet $4 or so it gives an incorrect price for anyone that could be drawing. At that point why should I believe anyone has me beaten? Anyone who calls my raise should* have a good enough king to bet that flop, and very few hands with a 6 in it should be in the pot. I think you are way off when you say I'm only good 1 in 100 times, especially on the river. MP3 was noted

Okay maybe warrant was a bad choice of wording. You said you weren't too happy about how you played it, and I think if MP3 had shown down a king or a six in that spot you would have leaned towards not thinking calling was a good idea. You say bad players at this level do things you can't explain, which I totally agree with. But then go on to say anyone who called a raise should have a good enough king to bet it, these two points seem counterintuitive to eachother. I can't count the number of players I've seen call raises with Kx suited, hit their king and still check the flop. They know enough that their kicker is weak and they shouldn't be raising. But they don't know enough to just fold the hand preflop, or simply just like to gamble and play most flops. For this exact reason I have no problem at all putting a 6 in an villians hand. A6 or K6 suited plays here most of the time, I'd even throw Q6 in the mix occasionaly for a really bad player. Many bad players see good players playing suit connectors and try to do the same. Except thay play hands like 6-9 or 6-10, sometimes not even suited. They don't understand why these hands have potential in certain situations so they play them every time. Just because they shouldn't have it doesn't mean they don't. Take this exact same hand but put us up against only two opponents, I agree I'd probably lead the turn figuring we have the best hand. Actually in that case I would have just bet the flop. I think we need to give some merit to the fact that the flop was taken 5 way. That many players is going to change the way certain hands are played. Running AQ against 4 random hands on that flop show around 46% equity over 28 billion hands. After the turn our equity drops to below 40% against 4 random hands. While, yes, me might have the best hand its such a marginal situation. Okay, 1 in a 100 was a bit of an exageration, I have a hard time giving us the best hand on the river 1 time in 6 to show a small return over the long run. Why risk calling off money here in a marginal situation when, if these players are as bad as everyone says, we can find a much better spot to put money in the pot. I'll fold 2nd pair here every time out of position, it may be good but, I don't want to pay to find out. At low levels you don't need to make calls like this thinking your hand could be good. Just play position and good cards and you will turn a profit. All marginal situations like this do is lead to second guessing and maybe a small return over the long run.

[dms26 3]

I don't mind checking the flop, but I'm going to assume that you're likely check-folding?

most likely, if someone led out in early position definately. Late position I'd have to evaluate.

I don't think you can't c-bet that flop. Stop checking flops when you've raised preflop.

noted, I usually c-bet but got gunshy on a 5 way flop with 2 people behind me. Thanks

[Ricer98 0]

I don't think you can't c-bet that flop. Stop checking flops when you've raised preflop.

Continuation betting every flop regardless of number of players and board texture is a huge leak. Sometimes you need to just check and see what happens. Betting every flop is reckless aggression in my opinion.

[dms26 3]

While, yes, me might have the best hand its such a marginal situation. Okay, 1 in a 100 was a bit of an exageration, I have a hard time giving us the best hand on the river 1 time in 6 to show a small return over the long run. Why risk calling off money here in a marginal situation when, if these players are as bad as everyone says, we can find a much better spot to put money in the pot.

I'll agree I can finD better spots to get money in, but on the river I'm getting more than 10-1, the 6 or 7-1 was on the turn. If nothing else I'm calling this small river bet for information I can hopefully use later. I thought the river plays itself, but I screwed up the turn and probably the flop too.