Flopped Trips Against A Steamer

[cMcMonkey 0]

My first time playing the verrrry loose 2-4O8 1/2 kill game at the local cardroom. Typically 5-9 players to the flop, 2-5 at showdown. I haven't played a lot of O8 and have some work to do learning, but with this game I'm making a profit just with good starting hand selection. Comments on all streets welcome.So background on Villain is he just sat down about 1 orbit ago, and on the previous hand pushed his set of 9's on every street with a Ac4s9c Js Qs board and was appalled when he lost to a flush, grumbling about protection, etc. He won't bet without a hand, but he often thinks he has a hand when there's a lot of hands that beat him and he doesn't really understand when to push and when to hold on tight (and when to fold). SB is a very loose calling station that plays almost every hand and will call down with any high or low draw.Previous pot is a kill and I'm in the BB with A256 rainbow. 5-6 call including Villain who I'm not sure even looks at his hand before throwing in his $6, he's steaming pretty bad. (don't remember exactly how many callers, I'll say 5 to make it simpler) and I call $2 to see the flop.Flop ($36)As Ah JsI'm thinking this isn't a terrible flop for me. I have 9 outs to a boat and any low card will give me an emergency low draw, plus a chance I'm ahead here (and a chance I'm behind to a flopped boat). I planned to check to see how much interest there was.SB check, I check, check to Villain in MP who bets $6 (I figure he's got something, but it could be a lot b/c he's steaming: naked A2, the boat, a single J, 23) fold to SB who calls, I call, last guy folds. Should I raise here to see how much Villain likes his hand? I voted no b/c I knew the SB was going nowhere and I was essentially closing the action with my call (guy to my left had cards teed up for fold) and figured Villain would slow down or even fold a low-only draw on the turn if I raise whereas he'll continue betting a lot of hands if I just call. I'm thinking it might have been worth a raise here to see where I was, I dunno, ISAPTurn ($54)4sThis is a great card for me, I think. I didn't get the boat, but now I have a live emergency low. A 3 gives me the low nut, and any other low either makes my boat or gives me a shot at low. The downside is the possible flush making my trips even less likely to be ahead. Villain's body language shows he's very interested in the pot and I figure he's got a pretty strong hand: could be a flush, A, nut low draw, or a boat. IOW he's showing strength but his range is still pretty large.SB and I check to Villain who bets $12, SB calls and I call counting 14 outs that will most likely get me half the pot (3's plus the boat and quad draws) and another 6 that give me a shot at low (all other low cards) to go with my (very) slim chance of having the best high hand already. With the pot laying at least 6.5:1 and the loose passive SB in there I think its an easy call.River ($90)2dI would prefer the 5 or 6, but this is another great card for me, giving me the boat and a weak low. Not strong enough to bet, but I see Villain ready to bet anyway.SB and I check to Villain who bets $12. SB thinks, checks his cards and calls. I call (is this a raise?)

[Vman96 0]

Flop isnt that good for you. But the pot is pretty dang big here already, so with the emergency low, you can argue a call here. No reason to raise, you're only ahead of a bluff. Turn makes your life better. If you call the flop, you have to call the turn.Raise the river. If you are against a bigger boat and a better low, that's unlucky, esp. since the 2 improves your low draw a lot here. You are taking more than half here more often than not.

[checkymcfold 0]

with a256 and more than 4-5 in, i'm raising preflop for pure value. make sure that those few times you get quartered on the low don't hurt so bad. if the game is so terrible that 5-9 people are seeing every flop, a lot of your edge is going to be hand selection, so you can manipulate that further by playing for 2 bets preflop almost every time you decide to play a hand (if you're choosing hands well, you're going to have an equity edge on the field literally every time you see a flop). just keep in mind that continuation bets in o8 are generally mistakes when playing against half-retarded monkeys. :)on the flop i raise in an attempt to isolate a possible nutbarring steamer with a hand that is far ahead of almost all of his range (which, if he really is steaming, is literally any 4). if by chance you are behind, the counterfeit protected running low draw will save you around 1/4 of the time, and since you have trips as well, hitting one of your boat cards gives you a GREAT chance of scooping this pot in a HU situation. moreover, your running low is 25 or 26 (4th and 5th nut), so you'll want to raise out most other running lows that won't be able to call 2 cold on a one-low flop. even though isolation won't work very often, i'd say it does often enough and the benefits of doing so against a steamer are large enough that it becomes worthwhile.the turn is a decent card for you, but not great since it filled the flush. if i did isolate successfully, i probably bet/call here. if not, c/c is fine.as for the river, i think with your reads it's a slim raise, but i think longterm the EV edge here is small enough to justify lowering variance by just calling if you feel so inclined. i raise here, but i'm an action junkie, lol.for the record, i'm guessing you got the high half of this pot against a better low (SB) and a flush (steaming monkey).

[navybuttons 15]

both of the above posts have their points and are just reflections on different styles in the game. i raise pf, check/call the flop, check/call the turn, check/raise the river. i think there is a slight slight value in getting that extra bet in there.it's weird that in a 1/2 kill pot game the bets are two full kills.

[cMcMonkey 0]

I hadn't considered raising pf, b/c I don't raise pf a lot yet at all. I know its a mistake, I just want to be sure of why I'm raising before I do. In this game I'm not narrowing the field very often with a raise pf, and didn't know how gung-ho I should be about raising for value when any hand isn't that far behind. But given the monkey nature of how they play after the flop, I guess that's where the value is. Plus, raising is exactly what I'd do in Hold 'Em with a good hand against a steamer, to try and isolate, don't know why it didn't occur to me here.On the flop, everyone was gone by the time the 1 bet came around to be (well one guy to me left, but he was teed up to fold). I considered raising, but the chance of Villain actually waking up with a hand and popping me back kept me from doing it. I didn't have much and knew I'd prob need help, and since I was closing the betting on a huge pot it was pretty safe to just call. With the calling station SB in there, however, I think I might have had enough edge to raise here for value.Turn was pretty easy, as Vman said since I called the flop and improved my chances on the low end, its a pretty simple call I think.The river is where I was most torn. I knew Villain was betting out, so I could easily check-raise, but between him and the calling station I was thinking I could easily be second best on both ends. I think I was seeing monsters, b/c looking back I'm gonna take at least half this pot most of the time, and both were calling another bet so its a def. +EV move to raise, and Villain may even 3-bet get even more in the pot.Results in white in case anyone else still is going to respond:Villain had JJxx for the flopped boat, I rivered him and put him further on tilt. I still don't know if I could have read him this strong, and anyway on the turn I might call even if I did know.SB had 73Jx for a flopped pair and a very weak lowI scoop and wonder what took me so long to play this game here.

[Frez 0]

Flop isnt that good for you. But the pot is pretty dang big here already, so with the emergency low, you can argue a call here. No reason to raise, you're only ahead of a bluff. Turn makes your life better. If you call the flop, you have to call the turn.Raise the river. If you are against a bigger boat and a better low, that's unlucky, esp. since the 2 improves your low draw a lot here. You are taking more than half here more often than not.

I agree with the river raise, esp in a limit game. If it was PL I just call because even a min raise opens me up to a huge reraise I don't want to see. Chances are strong you've got at least half of it and you're making money from one of the others stuck in the middle.I'm not surprised if the villan has JJ here.