A Woman's Place In Christianity

[jmkiser 0]

"I saw this book in a Christian bookstore today:http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product?event=AFF&p=1007828&item_no=72966#curr"Lies Women Believe: And the Truth that Sets them Free"Here are some examples:Lie #8: "I need to learn to love myself."Lie #10: "I have my rights."Lie #12: "I should not have to live with unfilled longings."Lie #18: "I don't have time to do everything that I'm _supposed_ to do."Lie #19: "I can make it without consistent time in the Word and prayer."Lie #20: "A career outside the home is more fulfilling than being a wife and mother."Lie #24: "If I submit to my husband, I will be miserable."Lie #26: "Sometimes divorce is a better than staying in a bad marriage."Lie #32: "If I feel something, it must be true."Lie #37: "I shouldn't have to suffer."If you ever see anybody carrying this book, push them down a flight of stairs. Seriously."Quoted from a forum on Facebook.Discuss.

[Flack_attack 0]

Islam is 1000 times worse.

[jmkiser 0]

Islam is 1000 times worse.

I believe it.Obviously doesn't excuse either parties, but I definitely believe it.

[litlebullet 0]

Don't believe all the **** that you read. Obviously there are nut cases in all forms of religion. Just saying, don't believe that that's what Christianity really believes. I never learned that from Sunday School.

[jmkiser 0]

Don't believe all the **** that you read. Obviously there are nut cases in all forms of religion. Just saying, don't believe that that's what Christianity really believes. I never learned that from Sunday School.

It's not taught in Sunday School. More along the lines of the woman's groups in church. Some churches take it all seriously. Some churches take none of it seriously.It's safe to say that a majority of this crap is a staple for women in the recognizable Christian religion.

[sknkd 0]

I've heard that argument before in Christianity. The thought process is "I want", "I need", "I deserve", is contrary to how a Christian should think. Selfless instead of Self-Esteem, It sounds like that book is singling out woman and saying it in a crude, abrasive way. One of those things in the list is actually a precept of the Church of Satan. What stands out is: Lie #12: "I should not have to live with unfilled longings." Fulfilling your desires as you have themBut these leave me at a loss…Lie #26: "Sometimes divorce is a better than staying in a bad marriage."Lie #20: "A career outside the home is more fulfilling than being a wife and mother."Lie #24: "If I submit to my husband, I will be miserable."In Christianity there are only 2 reasons you can get a divorce. Infidelity or your mate will not follow Christ. You'd think in ideal Christian lala land you couldn't actually be in a bad marriage if your mate was a 'real' Christian. I didn't mean for that to sound so condescending but that is the catch 22.

[jmkiser 0]

I've heard that argument before in Christianity. The thought process is "I want", "I need", "I deserve", is contrary to how a Christian should think. Selfless instead of Self-Esteem, It sounds like that book is singling out woman and saying it in a crude, abrasive way. One of those things in the list is actually a precept of the Church of Satan. What stands out is: Lie #12: "I should not have to live with unfilled longings." Fulfilling your desires as you have themBut these leave me at a loss…Lie #26: "Sometimes divorce is a better than staying in a bad marriage."Lie #20: "A career outside the home is more fulfilling than being a wife and mother."Lie #24: "If I submit to my husband, I will be miserable."In Christianity there are only 2 reasons you can get a divorce. Infidelity or your mate will not follow Christ. You'd think in ideal Christian lala land you couldn't actually be in a bad marriage if your mate was a 'real' Christian. I didn't mean for that to sound so condescending but that is the catch 22.

Yeah, I'm in a weird situation with someone right now who is contemplating divorce with her husband. She is a Christian who also believes in the "no divorce unless cheating" rule. The weird thing about the relationship is... there never was one. They both cheated on each other before they got married. After marriage, she had two affairs of which one he only knows about and he has an issue with porn and hasn't loved her... well... ever. Over 16 years, she always the submissive obedient wife that knew about all the problems they had in their marriage, but turned a blind eye to them to raise their children and take care of the home. Over the last year and a half, though, she is having this huge internal struggle.Talking with her about all the details of the marriage, it is obvious that it was never meant to be in the first place. But it did happen and kids are now apart of it, but there are even more problems now then ever. She never set boundaries that her husband isn't allowed to cross. Especially with the porn thing. Also boundaries about how he is allowed to treat her in public, how he is allowed to treat her at home, and things that are and aren't ok in the marriage such as dishonesty.She has found a lot of advice from many church leading Christians and they tend to agree with her that addiction to pornography is grounds for infidelity against him and is an "allowable" Christian reason for divorce. Everyone here must recognize that there are many more issues than what I've listed that would make this a "problem" marriage. And with every marriage counselor I've ever seen, the first question I always see them try to find is "Do these people love each other so that we even CAN fix the problems in this marriage and/or do they just WANT to keep this marriage together enough that we can fix the problems etc etc etc". The flat out answer with these two is no. She wants a divorce. She wants it more then anything. But there is that Christian notion... God wants her to stay married no matter what the circumstances to her.So we've got bad marriage, unhealthy for the kids, and the wife who wants a divorce. Things have been hostile for the last 6 months. The children have been present to things they shouldn't see from their parents. The parents are saying things to each other that are out of line while trying to communicate problems to each other. Nobody is fixing anything, yet some type of resolve needs to happen to cool the situation so everyone can move on in their lives (and yes, they've done marriage counseling, too... the husband ends up hating it, ignoring it, and complaining about the money it's costing for the nonsense).To me I see two options, she plays obedient wife (no matter all the problems) or she divorces him.What would Jesus say?What would God say?What would Buddha recommend? What would your favorite Rabbi say?What does YOUR sect of Christianity say?What would you do?

[sknkd 0]

To me I see two options, she plays obedient wife (no matter all the problems) or she divorces him.What would Jesus say?What would God say?What would Buddha recommend? What would your favorite Rabbi say?What does YOUR sect of Christianity say?What would you do?

Here is the reference--What would Jesus say?Matthew 531 "It has been said, `Anyone who divorces his wife must give her a certificate of divorce.'32 But I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, causes her to become an adulteress, and anyone who marries the divorced woman commits adultery.Adultry is ground for divorceWhat would God say?1 Corinthians 710 To the married I give this command (not I, but the Lord): A wife must not separate from her husband.11 But if she does, she must remain unmarried or else be reconciled to her husband. And a husband must not divorce his wife.What would Buddha recommend?Buddha, of course, was never married and in Buddism, marriage and divorce is a not a spiritual matter. Buddha apparently never spoke of divorce only on behavior in marriage. I looked it up and found this bad boy http://www.accesstoinsight.org/lib/authors...a/marriage.htmlWhat would your favorite Rabbi say?I actually know the answer to this one. The Talmud that interprets the Torah says you can get a divorce for any reason. Divorce is discouraged in Jewish Law though. It is the other stuff that you should worry like infidelity, that's a BIG no-no in Judaism.What does YOUR sect of Christianity say?I'm not Christian, maybe others can answer this one.I throw my 2 cents for what very little it is worth. If you are better off alone, all by yourself, you are not in a union. Divorce is bad but not wrong.

[brvheart 1,752]

"I saw this book in a Christian bookstore today:http://www.christianbook.com/Christian/Books/product?event=AFF&p=1007828&item_no=72966#curr"Lies Women Believe: And the Truth that Sets them Free"Here are some examples:Lie #8: "I need to learn to love myself."Lie #10: "I have my rights."Lie #12: "I should not have to live with unfilled longings."Lie #18: "I don't have time to do everything that I'm _supposed_ to do."Lie #19: "I can make it without consistent time in the Word and prayer."Lie #20: "A career outside the home is more fulfilling than being a wife and mother."Lie #24: "If I submit to my husband, I will be miserable."Lie #26: "Sometimes divorce is a better than staying in a bad marriage."Lie #32: "If I feel something, it must be true."Lie #37: "I shouldn't have to suffer."If you ever see anybody carrying this book, push them down a flight of stairs. Seriously."Quoted from a forum on Facebook.Discuss.

First off, I didn't click the link and have no basis for an opinion except what some facebook high schooler wrote...but...Lie #8: "I need to learn to love myself." This is a lie. Why should any Christian, man or woman, be encouraged to be selfish?Lie #10: "I have my rights." What rights? Rights don't come into play in Christianity. We are to honor God and others... not ourselves.Lie #12: "I should not have to live with unfilled longings." Selfishness again.Lie #18: "I don't have time to do everything that I'm _supposed_ to do." This is probably just an organizational flaw... but also selfishness, because I bet said person had time to watch TV, etc, etc. If I sit down to watch TV and there is stuff on the honey-do list... that is selfishness... plain and simple.Lie #19: "I can make it without consistent time in the Word and prayer." This is absolutely a lie. A baby can't make it without it's mother. And I can't make it without spending time with God.Lie #20: "A career outside the home is more fulfilling than being a wife and mother." LOL. I will give you $500 if you can find me ONE stay-at-home-mom that doesn't want to be. (I would need to verify over the phone via interview that she was an actual Christian though before I paid.)Lie #24: "If I submit to my husband, I will be miserable." This is just selfishness again. The Bible commands women to submit to their husbands. Does it end there? F%^$ women? no. The Bible has much stronger language for men. Men must be submissive to God and love their wife as Christ loves the Church. (ps. Christ loves the Church quite a bit)Lie #26: "Sometimes divorce is a better than staying in a bad marriage." Correct. No marriage is beyond saving. Especially if both people are Christians. If you are unequally yoked with an unbeliever, the Bible says that your marriage will fail. And as previously stated, if your spouse cheats on you... see ya!Lie #32: "If I feel something, it must be true." Absolutely. If you think this is stupid.. you're a moron. Feelings betray people all the time in every walk of life and in every religion. Go find me a 14 year old girl and let me question some of her feelings... I might just find something that she thinks is true that isn't.Lie #37: "I shouldn't have to suffer." What does suffer mean? The Bible says that ALL Christians will suffer persecution in the name of Jesus? If I didn't believe the Bible, why would I be a Christian.All this being said. I haven't clicked the link, and I haven't seen the book. It might very well be crazy... but these little nuggets are basically worthless. Please keep starting threads about stuff you don't understand.

Islam is 1000 times worse.

Is that all?

[Flack_attack 0]

Is that all?

Um, yes?

[brvheart 1,752]

Um, yes?

I was assuming it was at least 2,000 times worse.

[Flack_attack 0]

I was assuming it was at least 2,000 times worse.

Oh, I see. Well the factor of '1000' is not some arbitrary hyperbole, but rather the result of careful scientific examinaition, so, 1000 it is.

[jmkiser 0]

Lie #8: "I need to learn to love myself." This is a lie. Why should any Christian, man or woman, be encouraged to be selfish?Loving yourself has nothing to do with selfishness. Sure, you can take it that way if that is how you view it. To me, loving yourself has tons to do with important factors such as confidence, understanding, etc. There are very few people in this world who I would say "love" themselves too much.Lie #10: "I have my rights." What rights? Rights don't come into play in Christianity. We are to honor God and others... not ourselves.I'm sorry, I thought we were a civilized society because those are the rights that people refer to.Lie #12: "I should not have to live with unfilled longings." Selfishness again.Omg, so as to fight selfishness, I should torture myself everytime I do something I enjoy. Thanks for the help. And by the way, a little selfishness isn't going to kill you. Lie #18: "I don't have time to do everything that I'm _supposed_ to do." This is probably just an organizational flaw... but also selfishness, because I bet said person had time to watch TV, etc, etc. If I sit down to watch TV and there is stuff on the honey-do list... that is selfishness... plain and simple.This "lie" is a joke in the first place. Everyone who is reasonable knows that the average person who claims this is putting up a front to the real problems in their life. The fact that this wonderful author actually takes it seriously shows the silliness of this book.Lie #19: "I can make it without consistent time in the Word and prayer." This is absolutely a lie. A baby can't make it without it's mother. And I can't make it without spending time with God.First off, the term "making it" is a joke, too. How are you "not making it" without consistent time in the Word and prayer? Dehydrated? Diseased? Feeling rundown? Soul needs a boost? Then read the "WORD OF GOD" so you can get back to "making it".Lie #20: "A career outside the home is more fulfilling than being a wife and mother." LOL. I will give you $500 if you can find me ONE stay-at-home-mom that doesn't want to be. (I would need to verify over the phone via interview that she was an actual Christian though before I paid.)Wow... ummm... read it again, man. It's saying telling women that a career outside of the home is worthless because being a wife and a mother is just fine. And when you come back with "LOL FIND ME AN IGNORANT WOMAN WHO KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT THE OUTSIDE WORLD WHO DISAGREES WITH ME AND I'LL GIVE YOU $500", it sounds kind of foolish :-/ The sad part about this is that the book is, obviously, pushing women to think that a career sucks and being a wife and mother is awesome. Extremely silly. Every woman is their own individual person who will enjoy their life the way they see fit... whether it be as a wife and mother, whether it is being single and supporting themselves, whether it is being married and supporting the family, etc.Lie #24: "If I submit to my husband, I will be miserable." This is just selfishness again. The Bible commands women to submit to their husbands. Does it end there? F%^$ women? no. The Bible has much stronger language for men. Men must be submissive to God and love their wife as Christ loves the Church. (ps. Christ loves the Church quite a bit)/sigh I have no problem with women that like to play the submissive role in a relationship... most women do, especially if they have a responsible man who knows how to love and respect them while being the dominant half. The idea that woman SHOULD do this is insanity. Other then "because the Bible says so", give me some good reasons why relationships should be this way. And I guarantee you, for every good reason you come up with, I can give you more bad ones. The main one being that most men aren't that good at being responsibly dominant.Lie #26: "Sometimes divorce is better than staying in a bad marriage." Correct. No marriage is beyond saving. Especially if both people are Christians. If you are unequally yoked with an unbeliever, the Bible says that your marriage will fail. And as previously stated, if your spouse cheats on you... see ya!There are plenty of marriages that are beyond saving. Very naive to think differently. Maybe you should focus your energies on making sure that people only marry if they are seriously fit to do so. I don't see Christians emphasizing anything on that.Lie #32: "If I feel something, it must be true." Absolutely. If you think this is stupid.. you're a moron. Feelings betray people all the time in every walk of life and in every religion. Go find me a 14 year old girl and let me question some of her feelings... I might just find something that she thinks is true that isn't.It's stupid that the author believes people actually live by that ideal. Need some help getting that foot out of your mouth? Maybe you should watch who you're calling a moron.Lie #37: "I shouldn't have to suffer." What does suffer mean? The Bible says that ALL Christians will suffer persecution in the name of Jesus? If I didn't believe the Bible, why would I be a Christian./sigh, again, who in the world thinks that they aren't going to have to deal with any hardships in life at all? The author obviously has issues if he believes this is a serious problem that needs to be addressed.Don't worry, you don't need to click the link. Please keep responding to threads about stuff you don't understand.

[Loismustdie 0]

Lie #8: "I need to learn to love myself." This is a lie. Why should any Christian, man or woman, be encouraged to be selfish?Loving yourself has nothing to do with selfishness. Sure, you can take it that way if that is how you view it. To me, loving yourself has tons to do with important factors such as confidence, understanding, etc. There are very few people in this world who I would say "love" themselves too much.Lie #10: "I have my rights." What rights? Rights don't come into play in Christianity. We are to honor God and others... not ourselves.I'm sorry, I thought we were a civilized society because those are the rights that people refer to.Lie #12: "I should not have to live with unfilled longings." Selfishness again.Omg, so as to fight selfishness, I should torture myself everytime I do something I enjoy. Thanks for the help. And by the way, a little selfishness isn't going to kill you. Lie #18: "I don't have time to do everything that I'm _supposed_ to do." This is probably just an organizational flaw... but also selfishness, because I bet said person had time to watch TV, etc, etc. If I sit down to watch TV and there is stuff on the honey-do list... that is selfishness... plain and simple.This "lie" is a joke in the first place. Everyone who is reasonable knows that the average person who claims this is putting up a front to the real problems in their life. The fact that this wonderful author actually takes it seriously shows the silliness of this book.Lie #19: "I can make it without consistent time in the Word and prayer." This is absolutely a lie. A baby can't make it without it's mother. And I can't make it without spending time with God.First off, the term "making it" is a joke, too. How are you "not making it" without consistent time in the Word and prayer? Dehydrated? Diseased? Feeling rundown? Soul needs a boost? Then read the "WORD OF GOD" so you can get back to "making it".Lie #20: "A career outside the home is more fulfilling than being a wife and mother." LOL. I will give you $500 if you can find me ONE stay-at-home-mom that doesn't want to be. (I would need to verify over the phone via interview that she was an actual Christian though before I paid.)Wow... ummm... read it again, man. It's saying telling women that a career outside of the home is worthless because being a wife and a mother is just fine. And when you come back with "LOL FIND ME AN IGNORANT WOMAN WHO KNOWS NOTHING ABOUT THE OUTSIDE WORLD WHO DISAGREES WITH ME AND I'LL GIVE YOU $500", it sounds kind of foolish :-/ The sad part about this is that the book is, obviously, pushing women to think that a career sucks and being a wife and mother is awesome. Extremely silly. Every woman is their own individual person who will enjoy their life the way they see fit... whether it be as a wife and mother, whether it is being single and supporting themselves, whether it is being married and supporting the family, etc.Lie #24: "If I submit to my husband, I will be miserable." This is just selfishness again. The Bible commands women to submit to their husbands. Does it end there? F%^$ women? no. The Bible has much stronger language for men. Men must be submissive to God and love their wife as Christ loves the Church. (ps. Christ loves the Church quite a bit)/sigh I have no problem with women that like to play the submissive role in a relationship... most women do, especially if they have a responsible man who knows how to love and respect them while being the dominant half. The idea that woman SHOULD do this is insanity. Other then "because the Bible says so", give me some good reasons why relationships should be this way. And I guarantee you, for every good reason you come up with, I can give you more bad ones. The main one being that most men aren't that good at being responsibly dominant.Lie #26: "Sometimes divorce is better than staying in a bad marriage." Correct. No marriage is beyond saving. Especially if both people are Christians. If you are unequally yoked with an unbeliever, the Bible says that your marriage will fail. And as previously stated, if your spouse cheats on you... see ya!There are plenty of marriages that are beyond saving. Very naive to think differently. Maybe you should focus your energies on making sure that people only marry if they are seriously fit to do so. I don't see Christians emphasizing anything on that.Lie #32: "If I feel something, it must be true." Absolutely. If you think this is stupid.. you're a moron. Feelings betray people all the time in every walk of life and in every religion. Go find me a 14 year old girl and let me question some of her feelings... I might just find something that she thinks is true that isn't.It's stupid that the author believes people actually live by that ideal. Need some help getting that foot out of your mouth? Maybe you should watch who you're calling a moron.Lie #37: "I shouldn't have to suffer." What does suffer mean? The Bible says that ALL Christians will suffer persecution in the name of Jesus? If I didn't believe the Bible, why would I be a Christian./sigh, again, who in the world thinks that they aren't going to have to deal with any hardships in life at all? The author obviously has issues if he believes this is a serious problem that needs to be addressed.Don't worry, you don't need to click the link. Please keep responding to threads about stuff you don't understand.

All of these concepts from the bible are completely lost on a non- christian. Really, the ability to comprehend the joy of this type of life is completely stunted.

[Loismustdie 0]

There are plenty of marriages that are beyond saving. Very naive to think differently. Maybe you should focus your energies on making sure that people only marry if they are seriously fit to do so. I don't see Christians emphasizing anything on that. That's because you don't know any christians. I am being both facetious and serious, and really, when you look at some of these concepts you are dead right in that they could only be applied to christians. A christian man could handle being the leader without being an ***, making being "submissive" a pleasure, not a pain. Christisn couples, living a life in submission to God, find there happiness both seperately and together, and grow as one in Christ making dovorce a non-issue- so many things that a non-chritian just cannot comprehend.

[BigDMcGee 3,352]

Selfishness for the win.

[jmkiser 0]

H o w C a n u E D I T u H R e L I G E O N F O R U M

"How can you edit uh religion forum"... what?nmnext

[jmkiser 0]

lol, Lois! My buddy! What magical cult are you a part of that always gets it right all the time? You're turning out to be the only member of this perfect bunch.If you're not part of his minority club, then total statistics (as %) of people who recognize themselves as Christians would show that Christian marriages face the most problems. Everything from domestic violence to the divorce rate show that problem marriages are more likely to come from a Christian household then a non-secular household in the United States.(-------------------For Lois's views--------------------)I will say, Lois, that all of the people who apparently aren't you, aren't Christians, aren't true lovers of God... w/e you want to call them... they all need to stop. These majorities of Christians (who Lois says are not) need to quit trying to live by terms that (I guess) only apply if you have a true relationship with God (did I get it right?). Alright, let me try again.All of these hundreds of millions of people need to stop acting like they are living their lives as "one in Christ" because they aren't getting it right (eh?) and are making things much much worse (huge psychological family problems when being 'one in Christ' is not done correctly, amirite?). Because, obviously, if you aren't going to do it right, you're only going to make matters a million times worse trying to replicate something you're not. So instead of ****ing things up in God's name, just quit believing in him and live like us seculars do. We've, obviously, got it 2nd best to how it's run (right, Lois?... is it 2nd best? and your specific minority of real Christians is 1st best?) and 2nd best is better then ****ing the entire country up! So to all you fake, not real, 'think you are but really aren't' Christians, stop ****ing up this country! Yeah... something like that...Did I get that right for ya, Lois?(-------------------------End-----------------------------------)

[Loismustdie 0]

lol, Lois! My buddy! What magical cult are you a part of that always gets it right all the time? You're turning out to be the only member of this perfect bunch.If you're not part of his minority club, then total statistics (as %) of people who recognize themselves as Christians would show that Christian marriages face the most problems. Everything from domestic violence to the divorce rate show that problem marriages are more likely to come from a Christian household then a non-secular household in the United States.(-------------------For Lois's views--------------------)I will say, Lois, that all of the people who apparently aren't you, aren't Christians, aren't true lovers of God... w/e you want to call them... they all need to stop. These majorities of Christians (who Lois says are not) need to quit trying to live by terms that (I guess) only apply if you have a true relationship with God (did I get it right?). Alright, let me try again.All of these hundreds of millions of people need to stop acting like they are living their lives as "one in Christ" because they aren't getting it right (eh?) and are making things much much worse (huge psychological family problems when being 'one in Christ' is not done correctly, amirite?). Because, obviously, if you aren't going to do it right, you're only going to make matters a million times worse trying to replicate something you're not. So instead of ****ing things up in God's name, just quit believing in him and live like us seculars do. We've, obviously, got it 2nd best to how it's run (right, Lois?... is it 2nd best? and your specific minority of real Christians is 1st best?) and 2nd best is better then ****ing the entire country up! So to all you fake, not real, 'think you are but really aren't' Christians, stop ****ing up this country! Yeah... something like that...Did I get that right for ya, Lois?(-------------------------End-----------------------------------)[/quote Actually, that would work fine, except then the scriptures would be lying when he talks of the ones who claim they knew him and then he would deny them. So, really, as it is now is how it should be. Hell, yes, though, you are absolutely right when you say huge problems can come from applying these concepts incorrectly, without god- any rational person who reads a Promise Keeper pamphlet can see how dangerous these things could be when applied by people without the wisdom to handle it.

[chrisuk_sw 0]

Islam is 1000 times worse.

I was assuming it was at least 2,000 times worse.

Woah, you Christians really are prejudiced and ignorant.The skeptic's annotated bible lists 301 instances of the denigration of women. The skeptic's annotated Quran lists 52. Of course, its barely relevant as the Quran and the Bible are pretty much the same book anyway. They share far more than they disagree on.

[Loismustdie 0]

Woah, you Christians really are prejudiced and ignorant.The skeptic's annotated bible lists 301 instances of the denigration of women. The skeptic's annotated Quran lists 52. Of course, its barely relevant as the Quran and the Bible are pretty much the same book anyway. They share far more than they disagree on.

Define denigration.

[chrisuk_sw 0]

Define denigration.

I'm using a definition of "treated more harshly" and "is seen to be of lesser value".In fact, Leviticus 27 puts an exact figure on it: women are worth 60%-66% as much as men.

[Loismustdie 0]

I'm using a definition of "treated more harshly" and "is seen to be of lesser value".In fact, Leviticus 27 puts an exact figure on it: women are worth 60%-66% as much as men.

First off,old testament. Second off, show me in the New where women are to be or are treated more harshly and it is specifically endorsed by God. As far as seen of lesser value-what? Where? All I see in the New is men being told how much they are to love their wives, and only one, honour them, etc. What are you reading?

[jmkiser 0]

First off,old testament. Second off, show me in the New where women are to be or are treated more harshly and it is specifically endorsed by God. As far as seen of lesser value-what? Where? All I see in the New is men being told how much they are to love their wives, and only one, honour them, etc. What are you reading?

This is a curious question, not an attack or anything... so don't take it that waycommandments & "laws" = old testament, amirite?eh? see where I'm going with this?what applies to you, what doesn't apply to you, and why?

[chrisuk_sw 0]

First off,old testament. Second off, show me in the New where women are to be or are treated more harshly and it is specifically endorsed by God.As far as seen of lesser value-what? Where? All I see in the New is men being told how much they are to love their wives, and only one, honour them, etc. What are you reading?

So what that it's Old Testament - I was saying that there is denigration of women in the Bible - is the Old Testament not a part of the Bible? The numerical figures given in Leviticus 27 are denigrading to women.As for the New Testament - well there's Ephesians 5....22: Wives, submit to your husbands as to the Lord.23: For the husband is the head of the wife as Christ is the head of the church, his body, of which he is the Savior.24: Now as the church submits to Christ, so also wives should submit to their husbands in everything.So what if men are told to love their wives? This passage clearly says that wives are of lower value than their husbands in status. As for treated more harshly, how about:1 Timothy 211: A woman should learn in quietness and full submission.12: I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent.