coesillian 0 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I don't want to minimize how brutal the result of this is but the best way to see what happened is in the video replays that show the play from the opposite angle.Those replays show that the picture that Dale posted isn't really indicative of what happened. Chara shoved him in the shoulder 5 or 6 feet away from the "turnbuckle" and that launched him into the stanchion. He didn't ram his head into it.There was no way for Pacioretty to defend himself in any way.It was an irresponsible play and I think he should have been suspended but it does nobody good to focus on a picture like that which doesn't really show what happened. There's no way to know what exactly Chara's intent was beyond saying his intent was to hit Pacioretty into the boards/bench area which is a very dangerous thing to do.I don't personally think that Chara intended to ram his head into the "turnbuckle" based on his history as a player. I don't blame Montreal fans and others for being emotional and thinking the worst of Chara. at the 54 second mark you see the reverse angle.I think he intentionally launched him into the partition. There are other ways to interfere with him there without putting him in danger, he chose the risky play.That being said, I'm not even surprised the NHL didn't suspend him. I though that because of the extent of the injury to Pacioretty they might (because we know the NHL uses injury to determine punishment). I'm used to the NHL being completely useless at disciplinary action and stopped hoping they would change. It is obvious that even serious injury won't make them change, paralysis or loss of mental capacity won't make them change the game. We have to wait for death on the ice to happen before it changes. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 at the 54 second mark you see the reverse angle.I think he intentionally launched him into the partition. There are other ways to interfere with him there without putting him in danger, he chose the risky play.That being said, I'm not even surprised the NHL didn't suspend him. I though that because of the extent of the injury to Pacioretty they might (because we know the NHL uses injury to determine punishment). I'm used to the NHL being completely useless at disciplinary action and stopped hoping they would change. It is obvious that even serious injury won't make them change, paralysis or loss of mental capacity won't make them change the game. We have to wait for death on the ice to happen before it changes.You can see Chara's arms extend after the contact. The photo "isn't indicative of what happened?" It's a photo of the actual play. The video doesn't contradict this photo. Link to post Share on other sites
FCP Bob 1,320 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 You can see Chara's arms extend after the contact. The photo "isn't indicative of what happened?" It's a photo of the actual play. The video doesn't contradict this photo.The angle of that photo makes it look like he's smashing his head into the stanshion when at that point I'm not sure Chara is even in contact any longer with him and of course his arms are extended, when you shove somebody your arms extend. Link to post Share on other sites
pezeveng 207 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I don't want to minimize how brutal the result of this is but the best way to see what happened is in the video replays that show the play from the opposite angle.Those replays show that the picture that Dale posted isn't really indicative of what happened. Chara shoved him in the shoulder 5 or 6 feet away from the "turnbuckle" and that launched him into the stanchion. He didn't ram his head into it.There was no way for Pacioretty to defend himself in any way.It was an irresponsible play and I think he should have been suspended but it does nobody good to focus on a picture like that which doesn't really show what happened. There's no way to know what exactly Chara's intent was beyond saying his intent was to hit Pacioretty into the boards/bench area which is a very dangerous thing to do.I don't personally think that Chara intended to ram his head into the "turnbuckle" based on his history as a player. I don't blame Montreal fans and others for being emotional and thinking the worst of Chara.Please tell me you're a lawyer. This actually made me laugh. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 The angle of that photo makes it look like he's smashing his head into the stanshion when at that point I'm not sure Chara is even in contact any longer with him and of course his arms are extended, when you shove somebody your arms extend.He shoved him and followed through...his hands in the picture show where they actually were. Link to post Share on other sites
pezeveng 207 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 The angle of that photo makes it look like he's smashing his head into the stanshion when at that point I'm not sure Chara is even in contact any longer with him and of course his arms are extended, when you shove somebody your arms extend.But that could be the extra little shove at the end to make sure it hurts. Its like shoving someone till you can't shove them no more. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 I'm just glad Chara didn't insult Pacioretty's girlfriend or make a lewd gesture toward him. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 Pause it at the 48 second mark and tell me Chara doesn't know what he's doing.I don't believe for a second that he wanted to injure him, but he definitely wanted to hurt him.Disclaimer: this video may not be a clear indication of what really happened Link to post Share on other sites
runthemover 39 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I don't believe for a second he was trying to ram him into the side of the whatever we're calling it.You can't take a picture or a slow-motion replay to sum up the whole situation. obviously the picture shows how awful the result ended up being. a picture doesn't show what really happened.Chara takes a win or lose angle to the puck and loses. Pac is beating him and Chara does what probably a lot of d-men would do in that spot and uses his upper body to ram the guy into the boards. If he had kept moving his feet or taken a different angle to the puck it wouldn't have happened. When he was in that spot he used his upper body to ram him into the boards. Being a monster. he's able to drive people this way more easily than most players so I'm sure he does it all the time with success and probably doesn't get penalized for it (since he's Zdeno Chara). he happened to do it on the worst spot in the ice and almost too the guy's head off. hands up high which end up going to the head and driving the head into the side of the thingy. the intent was to save himself from being beat by driving the guy into the boards. the result ending up being what we saw. the reckless play, to me, deserves a few games. If a guy gets hurt on a clean play that's one thing. if a guy gets hurt on a questionable play you can argue it. here it was dangerous (hand up high) so there should be something. anywhere else on the ice and he's probably not hurt. I'm sure that's why they didn't suspend him. but I disagree with that result. Link to post Share on other sites
Jason12 0 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Ive gone back and forth on this hit since it happened....prior to the Pacioretty comments on the issue I was leaning more towards the Chara side but the comments kinda swung me back. Really humanizes the story....hard to say Chara didn't deserve at least a few games for it. What if in a few days, weeks, months or whatever Matt Cooke does the same thing?? If the league didn't discipline Chara because they didn't feel he was aware of what he was doing then how could you say a less talented player like Cooke was aware? I really feel the league has dropped the ball on this...if in doubt they should of done the safe thing and suspended Chara a minimum of 1 game....I dont think many people would have a problem with that. Link to post Share on other sites
coesillian 0 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 I think that once the swings at the pucks and misses he loses his right to obstruct the opposing player because Pacioretty chip the puck away. If Patches had kept the puck, then sure he can hit him, but the puck was chipped away at the defensive blue line and he interferes with him a couple moments after that at the players door. I think any little hook, grab or check get automatically called in that situation, especially since Pacioretty had a half step on him. Thats a cal the refs are pretty consistent with I think.That being, said the fact that he chose to absolutely level him was clear choice he made over a hook or a grab. Usually they try those moves thinking they might be able to get away with it. He choose to go all out and really lay him out, and he did it where he knew there was a partition. He also knew that he wasn't at risk of being suspended for the season or the playoffs because a) he's a star player, b) has a clean record, c) most importantly: he understands the suspension policy of the NHL. All those factor act on a subconscious level that made him conclude that his action couldn't result in a serious consequence for him. He got the worst case scenario: 5 minutes and the game. Nobody is outrageously shocked at the NHL's decision, we're all used to it. If the NHL had been setting precedents with Mike Richards on Booth, Cooke in every dirty situation, Gillies et al and handed out real suspensions, his thought process would have been different for sure. He is a product of his environment. The dangerous plays won't go away unless there are severe consequences to them. Link to post Share on other sites
runthemover 39 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 do we think there should be glass all around the rink? Link to post Share on other sites
ajs510 122 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Stephen Weiss had a shift of 5:43 yesterday... how the hell did that happen?http://www.nhl.com/scores/htmlreports/20102011/TH020985.HTM(Bernier and Repik each had corresponding shifts of 3:27) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMorxtRECKo...player_embedded Link to post Share on other sites
SBriand 4 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Cops+p...5669/story.htmlthis is a bit ridiculous. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Cops+p...5669/story.htmlthis is a bit ridiculous.Perhaps, but it's not the first time.Mikael Tam/Patrice Cormier http://www.news957.com/sports/article/1841...-canada-for-hitJonathan Roy http://www.nowpublic.com/sports/puck-dropp...olice-ice-fightAnd I also remember Dino Ciccarelli's arrest in Toronto. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/art...67721/index.htm Link to post Share on other sites
Mercury69 3 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 do we think there should be glass all around the rink?How will the players climb over the boards and incur "Too Many Men" penalties??? Think, man, think!Air Canada issued a statement to the effect that if the NHL doesn't overhaul their policy on hits like this, they will pull their support. Basically, AC is asking the NHL: "What's it going to take? Someone dead on the ice?" Link to post Share on other sites
SBriand 4 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Perhaps, but it's not the first time.Mikael Tam/Patrice Cormier http://www.news957.com/sports/article/1841...-canada-for-hitJonathan Roy http://www.nowpublic.com/sports/puck-dropp...olice-ice-fightAnd I also remember Dino Ciccarelli's arrest in Toronto. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/art...67721/index.htm Oh I know it is not the first time but doesn't change the fact that many of those are ridiculous. I am a believer in that you can't have it both ways. The sport is essentially skating around trying to put a puck in a net more times than your opponent while you each commit various forms of assault and battery. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 Oh I know it is not the first time but doesn't change the fact that many of those are ridiculous. I am a believer in that you can't have it both ways. The sport is essentially skating around trying to put a puck in a net more times than your opponent while you each commit various forms of assault and battery.I agree...otherwise they could arrest every MMA fighter. Link to post Share on other sites
Dubey 1,035 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Yeah, until the day when throwing a body check on the street is legal, and dropping your brief case and squaring off to settle workplace differences is considered proper etiquette, Hockey players cannot be held to the same set of responsibilities as regular citizens, while on the ice. Link to post Share on other sites
ajs510 122 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Yeah, until the day when throwing a body check on the street is legal, and dropping your brief case and squaring off to settle workplace differences is considered proper etiquette, Hockey players cannot be held to the same set of responsibilities as regular citizens, while on the ice. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RzToNo7A-94 Link to post Share on other sites
Dubey 1,035 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 hahaha, Terry Tate is awesome. Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rMorxtRECKo...player_embeddedI dont know whats better/comical, Florida needing Weiss so badly as to throw him right back out after a 4min shift, or the Kovalev thing with Keenan.great clip. Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 http://www.montrealgazette.com/news/Cops+p...5669/story.htmlthis is a bit ridiculous.Just another example of how stupid Canadians can get with hockey.Every Canadian thinks it they are born with knowing everything about hockey, and so they feel the need to express their views on larger hockey matters, and use their powers to force their views on others. I thought maybe you were linking to all the politicians who are coming out with their "views" on what the NHL should do. Of course, most are from Montreal/Quebec, and are just using this as a ways of getting votes. Link to post Share on other sites
digitalmonkey 929 Posted March 10, 2011 Author Share Posted March 10, 2011 Kubina suspended 3 games...http://blogs.suntimes.com/blackhawks/2011/...bolland_in.html Link to post Share on other sites
Fenxis 99 Posted March 10, 2011 Share Posted March 10, 2011 Kubina suspended 3 games...http://blogs.suntimes.com/blackhawks/2011/...bolland_in.html NHL hockey operations have no f'ing clue what they are doing. The Wheel of Justice strikes again. Link to post Share on other sites
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