WestcoastCanuck 0 Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 It's the most misunderstood, incorrectly used stat of all time. MDG's post is proof. Are you really insinuating that Nash isn't that valuable?Goals on the PP do not count as pluses, goals against on the PK do not count as minuses. It's ok, but one has to understand the limitations of the stat, and most people who bring it up, simply do not.Plus, if your a good defensive defenceman on a team that always matches lines, you will have a low +-. If you line up against Ovechkin, Crosby etc, and always play with your own teams 3rd line, you will have a low +- even when you are doing a good job. Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 I have MDZ in a pool where plus/minus is an important category. I noticed he was on the ice for a particular Pens goal last night, and then checked the boxscore to see that made him -2. I remember thinking he had no role in that Pens goal at all, there wasnt much any D could have done. Then another situation just like that. Zach probably watched the whole game, so maybe he could speak better to how bad DZ's -5 really was. But I was actually following his +/- all night, and watched probably about half the Pens-Rangers game, and really didnt think he played that bad. The points made above are so true. It is a fairly useless stat that can really be argued a million ways. Matchups, linemates all factor greatly. Another one of my personal +/- pet peeves....that they count against you when your gtd is pulled. If your team gives up a lot of EN goals, and you are one of the better players, your plus is screwed. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 I didn't notice DZ's defensive lapses at all, to be honest. It'd be tough for half that team to not be minus the way they played. Valiquette was a complete sieve, and probably contributed a cumulative -3 entirely on his own.I like DZ, he looks really good in the PP. Link to post Share on other sites
Fenxis 99 Posted November 29, 2009 Share Posted November 29, 2009 I have MDZ in a pool where plus/minus is an important category. I noticed he was on the ice for a particular Pens goal last night, and then checked the boxscore to see that made him -2. I remember thinking he had no role in that Pens goal at all, there wasnt much any D could have done. Then another situation just like that. Zach probably watched the whole game, so maybe he could speak better to how bad DZ's -5 really was. But I was actually following his +/- all night, and watched probably about half the Pens-Rangers game, and really didnt think he played that bad. The points made above are so true. It is a fairly useless stat that can really be argued a million ways. Matchups, linemates all factor greatly. Another one of my personal +/- pet peeves....that they count against you when your gtd is pulled. If your team gives up a lot of EN goals, and you are one of the better players, your plus is screwed.Ya; Mirtle blogged earlier in the year about trying to come up with a more meaningful +/- statistic by factoring stength of opposition and linemates. eg: A couple of years ago Preissing was +42 for the Senators playing 3rd pairing minutes -- no way should he have been held up as a defensive god! Link to post Share on other sites
mrdannyg 274 Posted November 30, 2009 Share Posted November 30, 2009 It's the most misunderstood, incorrectly used stat of all time. MDG's post is proof. Are you really insinuating that Nash isn't that valuable?Goals on the PP do not count as pluses, goals against on the PK do not count as minuses. It's ok, but one has to understand the limitations of the stat, and most people who bring it up, simply do not.Obviously he's extremely valuable. More valuable than any other crap that Columbus has, even if their +/- is better. I also agree that for the stat to have any value, any discussion needs to have about 6 qualifying statements.I don't think it is completely useless. Link to post Share on other sites
MapleLeafpoker 1,462 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 One of the dumbest plays ever.If you get a chance, try to watch the Fla-Atl highlights tonight, or watch the Vokoun injury on youtube if it gets there soon. Atlanta scores on Florida.Fla D Keith Ballard goes to slash the post in frustration....but he misses the post, and smacks Vokoun in the head. and knocks him out. Vokoun left the game on a stretcher. Link to post Share on other sites
coesillian 0 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 youtube has it: OMGhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dMvneYMZiMQ Link to post Share on other sites
troyomac 0 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Wowowow that was ****ing stupid! Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 God. How much more can my Yahoo! team take?At least Rupp got a hat trick tonight. Link to post Share on other sites
Nashtak 0 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Better quality; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOB_Lwpm3vk Link to post Share on other sites
runthemover 39 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 And, after doing that, he STILL decides to break his stick on the post Link to post Share on other sites
fryer98 30 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 And, after doing that, he STILL decides to break his stick on the postAnd skate away. Link to post Share on other sites
Babying 613 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 That is unreal what he did. Not sure why he still wanted to break his stick and skated away.Very strange indeed. Link to post Share on other sites
coesillian 0 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 He should be suspended. Link to post Share on other sites
runthemover 39 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 And skate away.I think that was the probably the best thing for him to do at that point Link to post Share on other sites
Nashtak 0 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 He should be suspended.Suspended for injury against his own teammate? I don't think so.Let the Florida Panthers organization take care of this themself. Link to post Share on other sites
kers2 0 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Suspended for injury against his own teammate? I don't think so.Let the Florida Panthers organization take care of this themself. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zEBCIjar8ls...feature=related Link to post Share on other sites
dEv~ 19 Posted December 1, 2009 Share Posted December 1, 2009 Eat that Sean Avery. Link to post Share on other sites
Derswick 0 Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Interesting stat from Canada's World Junior team announced today. 18 were born in the first quarter of the year, 13 total in the middle half and only three in the last quarter, not one after November 15th. Link to post Share on other sites
Zach6668 513 Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Interesting stat from Canada's World Junior team announced today. 18 were born in the first quarter of the year, 13 total in the middle half and only three in the last quarter, not one after November 15th.No wonder I never made it. Link to post Share on other sites
coesillian 0 Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 http://www.videosift.com/video/Hardest-Hocket-Shot-EVER Link to post Share on other sites
fryer98 30 Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Interesting stat from Canada's World Junior team announced today. 18 were born in the first quarter of the year, 13 total in the middle half and only three in the last quarter, not one after November 15th.My brother said there a book or study done about birth dates of elite players in a few different sports. Link to post Share on other sites
JoeyJoJo 18 Posted December 2, 2009 Share Posted December 2, 2009 Interesting stat from Canada's World Junior team announced today. 18 were born in the first quarter of the year, 13 total in the middle half and only three in the last quarter, not one after November 15th.This is normal throughout hockey and was noted the book Outliers by Malcom Gladwell.The reasoning is because the cutoff date for kids hockey is January 1st, so kids born earlier in the year are older and usually more physically mature than kids born later in the year. A difference of six to nine months at a young age can be significant.Those older kids seem to be better players since they are more physically mature, so they get better coaching, which makes them even better players, and it sort of snowballs.The cutoff date for little league baseball in the U.S. is July 31, so you see more major league players born from August to October. Link to post Share on other sites
JoeyJoJo 18 Posted December 3, 2009 Share Posted December 3, 2009 just what are you doing in the hockey forum?http://www.thenation.com/doc/20091123/tkacik Heh Link to post Share on other sites
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