Random Hockey Observations

[Dubey 1,035]

If Chara is supposed to know where he is at all times and use split second thinking to know not to run Pacioretty into the turnbuckle, isn't Pacioretty equally responsible in that split second to know that turnbuckle is there and not put himself into a bad spot?

No, with regards to the rules, I don't think pacioretty should be 'responsible' for not putting himself into a bad position, I've never agreed with that line of thought. Pacioretty should have a responsibilty to himself and his own health and safety to try to avoid dangerous situations, but when it comes to handing out punishments, the responsibility and blame has to go on the player committing the dangerous act, in my opinion.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

Fair enough. However, the question that needs to be answered is this: is there any chance whatsoever that Chara realizes that Pacioretty is in a vulnerable position and lets up instead of hitting him high?

my point exactly. And I cant answer it, and Im not sure most people can either.I found it interesting that you who played junior said you were always aware of it. I'd be curious to hear from NHL'ers and how aware they are.

[ajs510 122]

Fair enough. However, the question that needs to be answered is this: is there any chance whatsoever that Chara realizes that Pacioretty is in a vulnerable position and lets up instead of hitting him high?

I don't know, these last couple times I'm watching the video (and I've seen it about ten times now) I'm starting to not love my position on this. The last couple times it looked more to me like Chara knew he was getting beat and did something about it. He kind of threw him into the stanchion, I didn't really notice that part before until I slowed the video down and really paid attention.

[gruven 530]

my point exactly. And I cant answer it, and Im not sure most people can either.I found it interesting that you who played junior said you were always aware of it. I'd be curious to hear from NHL'ers and how aware they are.

Then if you think there's a possibility that he SHOULD realize, isn't his lack of realization punishable as well as if it was deliberate? 'I didn't realize I was speeding' isn't an excuse for speeding..

[Dubey 1,035]

An analogy (probably a bad one)A white guy decides to throw on his blue jump suit and take a stroll through downtown compton on a friday night. He gets shot. yes, he should have known better, but it doesn't relieve the shooter of all responsibility.ok damnit that was a terrible analogy, lol. Basically I am saying, yes, Pacioretty should have been more aware and should have tried to avoid the situation, but that it doesn't have any bearing whatsoever on Chara's responsibility on the play.

[ajs510 122]

An analogy (probably a bad one)A white guy decides to throw on his blue jump suit and take a stroll through downtown compton on a friday night. He gets shot. yes, he should have known better, but it doesn't relieve the shooter of all responsibility.ok damnit that was a terrible analogy, lol. Basically I am saying, yes, Pacioretty should have been more aware and should have tried to avoid the situation, but that it doesn't have any bearing whatsoever on Chara's responsibility on the play.

That was pretty good, actually, although it doesn't answer SJ's question about whether the guy in the jumpsuit just robbed a bank.

[digitalmonkey 929]

I don't know, these last couple times I'm watching the video (and I've seen it about ten times now) I'm starting to not love my position on this. The last couple times it looked more to me like Chara knew he was getting beat and did something about it. He kind of threw him into the stanchion, I didn't really notice that part before until I slowed the video down and really paid attention.

Now, take into account the history between these two players.

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

That was pretty good, actually, although it doesn't answer SJ's question about whether the guy in the jumpsuit just robbed a bank.

Heh.I mean, if you're robbing a bank and somebody tries to stop you and you shoot him dead, that's pretty obviously murder (although not pre-meditated murder). But if you're robbing a bank and as you're running away you trip and your big bag of coins (rare coins, I guess) goes flying through the air and hits somebody in the head killing him, I think that's manslaughter, not murder.It's still the act that leads to somebody being dead that matters, not what put you in that position.I don't remember what this has to do with the current topic.

[digitalmonkey 929]

Heh.I mean, if you're robbing a bank and somebody tries to stop you and you shoot him dead, that's pretty obviously murder (although not pre-meditated murder). But if you're robbing a bank and as you're running away you trip and your big bag of coins (rare coins, I guess) goes flying through the air and hits somebody in the head killing him, I think that's manslaughter, not murder.It's still the act that leads to somebody being dead that matters, not what put you in that position.I don't remember what this has to do with the current topic.

If you're robbing a bank and the teller dies from a heart attack...you will be charged with murder.Anyway...From Ken Campbell at The Hockey News: “What people are upset in this room is that I guess he drove the elbow through the head with an intent to injure kind of thing,” Cammalleri said. “I don’t think Chara premeditated this, but from experience when a player gets under your skin for whatever reason, you remember it and you notice when he’s out there. You know whom you’re playing against. Especially a divisional opponent because you’re so familiar. You can almost tell by the movements of a player. There’s a lot of tells, from what brand of stick they’re using to how they tape it.” Canadiens goalie Carey Price said the history between Chara and Pacioretty probably played a part. In a Jan. 8 game between the Canadiens and Bruins, Pacioretty scored in overtime, then shoved Chara out of the way, which was the genesis of the hard feelings between the two players. “Well that’s the whole thing,” Price said. “They do kind of have a history and that adds fuel to the fire. The only person who knows is (Chara).”

[SBriand 4]

I haven't looked at the hit. More fun just watching you all debate it.So, what do you all want the end result to be in this case?

[digitalmonkey 929]

I haven't looked at the hit. More fun just watching you all debate it.So, what do you all want the end result to be in this case?

I would like to see Chara sold to a Uruguayan rugby team for a mountainside all-you-can-eat buffet.

[SBriand 4]

I would like to see Chara sold to a Uruguayan rugby team for a mountainside all-you-can-eat buffet.

would it be Uruguayan food at this buffet?

[FCP Bob 1,312]

I haven't looked at the hit. More fun just watching you all debate it.So, what do you all want the end result to be in this case?

I want Pacioretty to totally heal from his injuries.I want Lurch to get a moderate suspension.I want the league to review the set up around the benches and see if there are ways to make it less dangerous.I want this to remind all hockey players everywhere to be more aware and respectful of when an opponent is in a vulnerable position and back off and not hurt them.

[digitalmonkey 929]

I want Pacioretty to totally heal from his injuries.I want Lurch to get a moderate suspension.I want the league to review the set up around the benches and see if there are ways to make it less dangerous.I want this to remind all hockey players everywhere to be more aware and respectful of when an opponent is in a vulnerable position and back off and not hurt them.And I want world peace.

[Dubey 1,035]

I actually don't know what I want to see on this one. It isn't as cut and dry as the gillies attack on Tangradi, or the Martin Sucker punch from the same game.I also don't know how I feel about punishing the result rather than the act. I kind of go back and forth on this. Skeleton Jelly's logic is compelling though, and I feel like we can't ignore the fact that a guy has broken vertebrae as a direct result of Chara's irresponsible hit, even if he didn't intend to injure him.

[SBriand 4]

I want Pacioretty to totally heal from his injuries.I want Lurch to get a moderate suspension.I want the league to review the set up around the benches and see if there are ways to make it less dangerous.I want this to remind all hockey players everywhere to be more aware and respectful of when an opponent is in a vulnerable position and back off and not hurt them.

I would agree with those, especially the last one. I have always believed that the players are getting stronger and faster each and every season but the lack of respect has grown along with it.

[digitalmonkey 929]

would it be Uruguayan food at this buffet?

Slovakian.

[Dubey 1,035]

on second thought, I want what Bob wants.

[ajs510 122]

I want Pacioretty to totally heal from his injuries.I want Lurch to get a moderate suspension.I want the league to review the set up around the benches and see if there are ways to make it less dangerous.I want this to remind all hockey players everywhere to be more aware and respectful of when an opponent is in a vulnerable position and back off and not hurt them.

Yes, yes, yes and yes.

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

It appears I was wrong about the bank robbery issue. Blows my mind.I still like my flow chart though. :(

[ajs510 122]

It appears I was wrong about the bank robbery issue. Blows my mind.I still like my flow chart though. :(

I liked it other than the fact that you could still get to penalty even if a play wasn't against the rules.

[Petoria 0]

The report this morning is that Pacioretty has a broken bone in his neck as well as a severe concussion.Broken bone in the neck could be career-ending i'd think. Hopefully not though.

[Skeleton Jelly 2]

I liked it other than the fact that you could still get to penalty even if a play wasn't against the rules.

I was creating the penalty of "reckless endangerment."

[gruven 530]

I would agree with those, especially the last one. I have always believed that the players are getting stronger and faster each and every season but the lack of respect has grown along with it.

That might be the bigger discussion, and where the fault truly lies:Players might make split second decisions, but they are still decisions. The hit might end up being harmless, it might break a guys neck. Players dont consider the OUTCOME, just the act. So you have to make the punishment for the ACT so severe that the only decision is 'is this a good hit or a bad hit'. Unfortunately, the NHL is never going to do it. They aren't going to suspend Chara for 30 games. They don't suspend worthless plugs like Gillies for anything substantial. But if they DID.... then guys just wouldnt hit someone in those touchy spots. And would that hurt the game? Doubtful...

[pezeveng 207]

As much as I like making fun of Kyprios there is a commercial where he says "the players are too big and the game is too fast".This sucks and watching that play once was enough. Max's speed plus Chara's force equals bad news, I think the rules need big time changes like the NFL.A defenseless reciever rule, the new quarterback rule, helmut to helmut hit rule, for those that don't watch the NFL they change rules every year and enforce them better than any other league. The NHL can't even change the no touch icing rule which is available in plenty of different leagues. The NHL really needs a major facelift because the players are faster and stronger.