Club De Hockey Canadien

[Zach6668 513]

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I'm not as smart as you Zach, I find it hard for me to understand things, explain to me how your certain of this.

 

limidonks don't play dirty

 

also, I think it'd be a pretty big leap to suggest basically any NHL player is targeting the head, IMO. I could be wrong here. I think most head shots are due to reckless disregard, not targeted intent. Reckless is basically what this is, though, as I've said, not sure if it was a head shot by NHL standards. If he caught enough of the body first, it's a legal hit in the NHL, which is kinda asinine, anyways.

 

i haven't watched the replay enough to really know, just speculating.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

Im not arguing what is legal, what is a 2game suspension. I could care less.

 

I just think the conversation is funny, cause Duane is suddenly fighting the good fight for his team, and there is the distinction being made over "hurting a guy" and making sure you just hurt him, but dont send him off on a stretcher.

 

If this is the kind of hockey you guys think is fun to watch, go for it. Not for me. I dont care if Eller got up and skated away....I didnt like the hit the second I saw it, and for me its all about a defenseless player getting hit on his blind side, and lots of contact with the head. Im sure someone will suggest there was contact with shoulder first so it makes the fact his head whiplashes back like that ok and it a legal good "hockey" hit.

 

Im sick and tired of guys getting badly hurt for no reason, and so sick and tired of people here defending their own players at all costs.

[Zach6668 513]

thats fair. no problem here if they get hits like that out of the game

[Fenxis 99]

I just think the conversation is funny, cause Duane is suddenly fighting the good fight for his team, and there is the distinction being made over "hurting a guy" and making sure you just hurt him, but dont send him off on a stretcher.

 

Nice assumptions there... I'm actually killing time while the wife is finishing up a movie. I would rather see a skill game and these kinds of hits out of the game, perhaps international-style headshot rules. Also you seem to be taking my thoughts on intent way out of context, for all we know all he was doing is trying to take Eller out of the play: knock him on his ass and wind him a little. Though I like how me reporting that CBC/TSN reporters think it won't be a suspension makes me a super homer. I was more pissed at inconsistent rules and rule calling.

 

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/BJTRkhtCIAE2tu2.png:large

 

Only thing is if you look at that shot, Eller is bent way over in an invulnerable position. You could argue that Gryba didn't jump / elbow so no intent -- but then again it's the same as a player who's 5 feet away from the boards with the ass out getting decapitated when he gets checked into them.

[digitalmonkey 929]

Players out left and right with concussions and many just seem to accept it as part of the game; but they're quick to argue that players should be forced to wear visors cause Marc Staal got hit in the eye with a puck. Players don't need to be protected from themself, they need to be protected from each other.

 

Gryba's hit was predatory. His intent was to injure, but I don't think he's even fully aware of that intention. It's just what he's been taught and told to do. Did Scott Stevens intend to hurt Slava Kozlov? What did he mean when he mouthed, "You're next."

 

Gryba hit Eller just as the puck touched Eller's stick. Eller had not yet received the pass, it had merely touched his stick. This makes the interference penalty call incorrect according to the rules.

 

Eller was obviously in a vulnerable position, however the rules state a player with the puck cannot be considered to be in a vulnerable position. So even though Eller's position didn't change the fact that the puck merely touched his stick now meant the rules no longer protected him as a vulnerable player.

 

This is where we've drawn the line on vulnerability?

 

We have big armor-wearing predatory players skating around at high speeds and we're arguing about visors. It's so ridiculous it's laughable. We need to protect players from each other. According to the rules, Gryba timed the hit perfectly. He arrived at almost the same time the puck did so it wasn't interference. Was it a head shot? Gryba definitely made contact with the head; Eller was unconscious before his face hit the ice. That's ok though because the head wasn't the point of initial contact.

 

With everything we know about concussions and the damage they cause I can't believe anyone would consider that a "good, clean hit" just because the puck had merely touched his stick, the head was the secondary point of contact, and Lars Eller was no longer in a vulnerable position according to the rules. And just think how many people who argue that players should be forced to wear visors also considered Gryba's hit good and clean.

 

Eller apparently has facial and dental fractures and a concussion; although Dr. Recchi has yet to provide his diagnosis. If Gryba just wanted to break up the pass be could have easily knocked the puck away with his stick since the puck arrived when he did and Eller didn't even know he was there. In fact, if Gryba had just said "boo" then Eller probably would have shit himself. Instead, Gryba chose to lay his body into a vulnerable player hitting his torso and head at almost the same time. Good, clean hit? If "clean" means within the rules then the hit is borderline clean, but I wouldn't call it good.

 

So if Gryba didn't mean to hurt him then what was his intention?

 

http://blogimages.thescore.com/nhl/files/2013/05/gryba-hit.jpg

[digitalmonkey 929]

And the cover of the Ottawa Sun is a ****ing disgrace.

 

http://prohockeytalk.nbcsports.com/2013/05/03/first-blood-sens-ottawa-suns-front-page/

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

With everything we know about concussions and the damage they cause I can't believe anyone would consider that a "good, clean hit" just because the puck had merely touched his stick, the head was the secondary point of contact, and Lars Eller was no longer in a vulnerable position according to the rules.

 

This this this.

[Babying 613]

Do you think that the Stevens hit on Lindros was head hunting?

[Dubey 1,035]

I'm honestly completely shocked that the "clean hit" angle is actually getting support from anyone. Including Mckenzie and Fraser. I feel like I'm in Bizarro world or something. That's like the absolute perfect example of the type of hit that the NHL has been trying to get rid of for the last couple of years. How come all of a sudden all of these people are jumping on board to find the perfect angle which shows that maybe the hip might have made contact first? Eller was a defenceless player and it is Gryba's responsibility to let up there. It's a dangerous hit, regardless of his intention, and he should get a long suspension. The fact that it results in a serious injury to Eller is a factor as well, because like it or not, the NHL, much like the rest of society, has always punished based on the result of the action, so why is it all of a sudden not an issue that Eller is in the hospital?

 

 

 

As for the "he hit his face on the ice" angle. Yeah, he hit his face on the ice, because he had lost control of his arms, because he was unconscious from the massive HIT TO THE HEAD THAT HE JUST TOOK.

[Dubey 1,035]

Do you think that the Stevens hit on Lindros was head hunting?

 

 

without question. Most of Stevens' famous hits were suspensionable in today's NHL.

[Babying 613]

without question. Most of Stevens' famous hits were suspensionable in today's NHL.

 

And he got into the HOF from doing it

[Dubey 1,035]

Also, just saw Paul Mclean's comments.

 

Paraphrase "It's Diaz's fault because he passed him the puck in the middle of the ice and the middle of the ice is a dangerous place and bad things happen there"

 

 

Are you ****ing kidding me? This guy is an idiot. That's one of the dumbest things I've ever heard. Yeah it's open season on Eller because he made the mistake of skating through the middle of the ice with his head down. Whatever happens, happens, he should have known better.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

I wonder how many guys experience headaches at the sight of bright light because of Scott Stevens.

[digitalmonkey 929]

I think Scott Stevens made a living headhunting.

 

I think a lot of things that were acceptable then should not necessarily be acceptable now; especially given what we now know.

 

I think it's ridiculous how Diaz is being blamed and used as justification for the hit. Paul McMoustache thinks Eller should be mad at Diaz, not Gryba.

 

I think any suspension to Gryba is pointless unless it's designed to discourage others from doing the same thing. The loss of Eller is devastating to Montreal. Ottawa won't miss Gryba.

[Babying 613]

When Paul Mclean talks, I don't know what he says. Goes in one ear and out the other.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

The loss of Eller is devastating to Montreal.

I feared you would say this.

He has looked amazing in the games I have watched, and I think part of why I'm so mad is because I was looking forward to seeing how he played in these playoffs. I expected him to be one of Mtl's best players, if not the best.

[serge 904]

I think Dubey touched on this, the argument here shouldn't be the hit. The argument is are we punishing players on the result.

 

I think we can all agree we have seen hits much worse than this. The unfortunate injury aspect is why we are talking so much about this.

 

I can argue all day Ferrence on Grabovski, Subban on Neil(same game) were much much worse.

 

Everytime someone throws a hit they are obviously trying to hurt the other player. No one wants to see what happened to Eller. But I don't think there is a player in the NHL (even Kaleta) that wants to see that.

 

If the NHL can admit we are punishing based on result I can respect them

[mrdannyg 274]

To me, it looks like he is clearly targeting the body. And the position of his arm, elbow before and after makes it look like he is really trying to hit body, and actively avoided getting arm and elbow into head area. The game moves fast, Eller had his head down. Eller's head down is in a really dangerous area for a 6'5 240lb guy coming at him at full speed, who's basically wearing body armor.

 

To me, this is the kind of devastating full-speed injury that is caused by the short-sighted (though sometimes necessary) decisions that lead to enormous men wearing armor slamming into sensitive parts of other men at very high speeds.

 

Other than the "intent to injure" that goes along with any actual bodycheck (as opposed to just playing the man), I don't see any intent there.

 

That's my opinion and I'm giving it because I have one. You guys have already moved past this kind of opinion to more high-level discussions.

[Fenxis 99]

And the cover of the Ottawa Sun is a ****ing disgrace.

 

http://prohockeytalk...uns-front-page/

 

The Ottawa Sun is only ever fit to line bird cages; Garrioch and Brennan are a-grade buffoons.

[Fenxis 99]

I think a lot of things that were acceptable then should not necessarily be acceptable now; especially given what we now know.

 

I think there's two separate issues here: 1. SHOULD it be against the rules, 2. WAS it against the rules.

 

You'll find that the majority of people who thought it was 'clean' also want head injuries out of the game. But we need to get away from crappy rules where we have to argue intent (refs have a hard enough time to see the hits let alone judge that) ... hell make tossing easier by having it reviewable.

[serge 904]

Just listening to Gord Stellick driving in to work, I am paraphrasing:

 

"Diaz made a suicide pass, its the type of pass you make if you suspect the guy you are passing to is screwing around with your wife"

 

Thats just stupid, blaming the hit on Diaz.

[digitalmonkey 929]

A bodycheck is supposed to be a defensive move intended to separate your opponent from the puck. Somewhere along the line it became more of an offensive move designed to hurt your opponent. In fact, we have Glenn Healey speaking on national tv about how players should be trying to hurt their opponent with their hits. And both Serge and Dan are under the impression that every bodycheck is intended to injure. Are we in the twilight zone?

 

Let's blame Diaz for the awful pass. Let's blame Eller for having his head down. Let's brush it off by saying we're only talking about it because Eller got hurt on the play. Let's not talk about how Gryba saw an opportunity to hurt an opponent and took advantage of it. That's deemed acceptable because he didn't break any rules.

 

I enjoy physical hockey. I like a good bodycheck, but there has to be a point when common sense takes over. There is such a thing as overkill.

 

I'm not grasping this point of principle contact concept. What happens if the hips, torso and head are contacted at the same time? Are they all the principle point of contact?

 

 

 

 

Eller was unconscious before he hit the ice. Gryba hit Eller's head, torso and hips at the same time. A vulnerable player was hit in the head and knocked out and subsequently fell face-first onto the ice. Glenn Healey approves. Paul MacLean thinks, "It was a hockey play that ended up going bad for Lars Eller. [if I'm Therrien] I'm really mad at player 61 whoever he is." Hmmm...where did MacLean think this play was going to end up for Lars Eller?

 

And it's true we're only talking about this because of the injury, but that doesn't justify the hit. There are many that feel this was a "good hockey hit" and won't even consider a differing opinion so you can imagine what a waste of time it would be to talk about the countless other similar plays where there was no resulting injury.

 

I could go on about car-crash mentality and the profitability of controversy and how the NHL doesn't really care if they eliminate concussions from the game and how the Ottawa Sun front page is a perfect example of the mentality of far too many people, but the only people who will listen are those who already agree.

 

The players are bigger, stronger and faster than they were years ago. They wear equipment that has crossed the protection/weapon line. And probably the most disturbing thing is the mentality that you should be trying to hurt your opponent when you hit him.

 

Someone is going to be killed on the ice in an NHL game at some point in the near future. Cue the media frenzy, the debates, the TSN panel discussions, the press releases, the increase in ratings, the profits, the ceremonial puck drops, the limited edition jerseys with the memorial patches on the shoulder, the call for rule changes, the investigations, the calls to 911, the jokes, the tears...

 

Then we'll wait for apathy to return and everything will be ok again.

[serge 904]

I really like this post..But I dont think I mean every hit should be considered an attempt to injure, but typically when a player throws a hit, its to "hurt " your opponent..You want to have him knocked on his ass, bruised..Get him tired, effect his play..

 

There are a lot of hits in the game, that are unnecessary..That have nothing to do with taking the puck off the player..Usually happens with guys that are hitters..Watch guys like Phaneuf, Komarov, Schenn( just leaf examples) these guys are hitting for the purpose of hitting..Especially Komarov..They are not really hockey plays.

[digitalmonkey 929]

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger24m

Lots of debate on Gryba hit.The socially acceptable thing to do was allow Eller to skate by.That's not how the game is played at any level.

 

 

 

There is allowing Eller to skate by and there is what happened last night. Darren Dreger cannot see any other option between those two. And he's an "Insider" for the NHL.

[serge 904]

Darren Dreger ‏@DarrenDreger24m

Lots of debate on Gryba hit.The socially acceptable thing to do was allow Eller to skate by.That's not how the game is played at any level.

 

 

 

There is allowing Eller to skate by and there is what happened last night. Darren Dreger cannot see any other option between those two. And he's an "Insider" for the NHL.

 

I wonder if Dreger has a kid that plays competitive contact hockey..I doubt it..

 

Situations like this when a player gets a devastating injury, on a regular hockey play as they are calling it, that turns off parents and kids from playing higher level hockey.