Rory Fitzpatrick

[akoff 0]

Easy there big fella, don’t get yourself too excited. You will mind much more mindless arguments about many more important issues.You’re still new here…how do you feel about global warming…SW

[njligernj 0]

Easy there big fella, don’t get yourself too excited. You will mind much more mindless arguments about many more important issues.You’re still new here…how do you feel about global warming…SW

Still new here? I joined before you. I just don't have a lot of posts since, despite the evidence on display in this thread, I generally avoid pointless net arguments (hence my sig). As for global warming, I'm all for it. Bring it on. The more the merrier.

[Whiter Sr 0]

What is your source for that fact?... lots of wasted space ... As I said, I have no pro-south, anti-Canada agenda. If you want to discuss, say Carolina v. Winnipeg, that's perhaps a different argument. Carolina are 15th in attendance the year after winning a Cup, which is pretty pathetic and could make a good case that the team might be better off elsewhere.

By the way we are way off the original Rory Fitzpatrick topic but here goes...It was me who brought up the Tampa Bay area. It was a bad choice on my part as there are definitely a lot worse markets in the US with NHL teams right now. Although it helps when you have won a cup and have 3 great players to market. Halifax is definitely the 3rd best option for Canada of the options I gave but still it's a better option than a lot of the markets in the US.I have heard from a player on the Lightning and he said they definitely aren't a "hockey" town. Now I know this is an extreme but if Robert Luongo, Jerome Iginla, Mats Sundin, Jason Spezza, and Saku Koivu were to walk down the street in the respective town that they played for, they would be mobbed by fans looking for autographs, pictures etc.. Whereas if Vincent Lecavelier and Brad Richrads walked down main street in Tampa Bay no one would notice.

[akoff 0]

"Still new here? I joined before you. "LOL I didn't even notice i just saw the post count... good hand sir

[njligernj 0]

I have heard from a player on the Lightning and he said they definitely aren't a "hockey" town. Now I know this is an extreme but if Robert Luongo, Jerome Iginla, Mats Sundin, Jason Spezza, and Saku Koivu were to walk down the street in the respective town that they played for, they would be mobbed by fans looking for autographs, pictures etc.. Whereas if Vincent Lecavelier and Brad Richrads walked down main street in Tampa Bay no one would notice.

That's true but I'm not entirely sure why that matters. There are very few cities in the US in which mainstream (i.e. non-season ticket holders ... just the average person on the street) would recognize a hockey player. Hockey is totally under the mainstream radar there. If being recognized on the street were grounds for "deserving" a hockey team then there would hardly be any teams in the US at all (which might make a lot of Canadians happy I know). There are original six teams (Chicago, Boston) where I am sure the average player doesn't get noticed all that often ... and those teams (while admittedly bad this year ... although both those cities have had lousy attendance for a while) have far worse attendance than many expansion teams. Plus I find it hard to believe that there are other towns in the US in which players are constantly being recognized on the street but then far less people can be bothered to go to the actual games than in Tampa. Doesn't add up. I think it's true that they aren't often recognized in Tampa; I just don't think that's any different than almost anywhere else in the US. Hell the Cup Finals get 2.x ratings -- average that out and it's less than 100,000 people in a given city watching hockey. Nobody knows hockey players in the US. Hardly unique to Tampa. Padding the numbers or not (and I've seen some of their games this season, plus heard from people who are actually there, and that place looks basically full -- I'm sure there might be a few nosebleeds open, and the team might claim a sellout despite that, which A LOT of other teams do) it doesn't make *that* much difference. Plus my buddies down in Tampa must be blind and deaf because they've never found wherever this place is where the team is constantly giving away boatloads of free tickets to the games. Those suckers end up paying for them. I should let them know to keep an eye out for Jay Feaster on the corner of the street with a "free tickets and beer" sign around his neck. Not to mention if things were that bad there that they can't sell Eastern Conference Final playoff tickets then they wouldn't fudge the numbers UP, they'd fudge them down so they'd have justification to move the team somewhere better.

Halifax is definitely the 3rd best option for Canada of the options I gave but still it's a better option than a lot of the markets in the US.

You might be able to make a case for the worst US city v. the best Canadian market without a team. There is still the issue that they have to pay the players in US $ -- if the CAD takes a plunge relative to USD to the levels of the late 90's/early 00's the Canadian teams essentially end up paying their players double. It's sad but it's reality -- I think it would be very hard to be viable in any other Canadian cities. Anyway, ultimately pointless discussion because, as the Fitzpatrick situation showed (look at this coming full circle) the NHL has no interest in what the fans want. If they want a mostly US NHL then that's what they'll have ... fans be damned. I admit it would be better to have two or three more Canadian teams (just not blindly replacing good US markets because they have palm trees) -- I just don't see how it's financially viable.

[Teffy 0]

so you think Tampa bay Lightning make money?"The run to the 20004 Stanley Cup gave Palace Sports & Entertainment, the Lightning's parent company, a $3.8-million profit on its Tampa operation, Campbell said. He said it is PS&E's only profit in the city since it bought the team and the Times Forum lease in 1999.Campbell said the company lost $54-million entering the Cup season. Subtract the '04 profit and add subsequent losses, he said, of $8.8-million in the lockout season and $8-million last season, and PS&E claims losses of about $67-million in Tampa. Campbell estimates the company will lose $9-million in Tampa this season without a Lightning playoff run.""

[akoff 0]

no TV deal = teams losing money....nothing new there. Face it folks the NHL is almost a 2nd level sport....along the lines of arena football, bowling, soccer etc.The problem is they have big time contracts and ticket prices.

[njligernj 0]

so you think Tampa bay Lightning make money?"The run to the 20004 Stanley Cup gave Palace Sports & Entertainment, the Lightning's parent company, a $3.8-million profit on its Tampa operation, Campbell said. He said it is PS&E's only profit in the city since it bought the team and the Times Forum lease in 1999.Campbell said the company lost $54-million entering the Cup season. Subtract the '04 profit and add subsequent losses, he said, of $8.8-million in the lockout season and $8-million last season, and PS&E claims losses of about $67-million in Tampa. Campbell estimates the company will lose $9-million in Tampa this season without a Lightning playoff run.""

Those profits don't include revenue from the arena, which they treat separately. The arena is one of the highest grossing arenas in the world. However the revenue is tied to ownership of the team (the hockey team own the arena -- if you move the team you lose ownership of the arena) so they make money with the Lightning. They don't want to move -- no way they'd give up the revenue from that arena.The venue in downtown Tampa has been ranked as the leading concert ticket sales venue in North America, as well as second largest worldwide, by a music industry publication for the first half of 2005. http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/s...18/daily11.html The whining about profits is PR to lower payroll and rake in even more profits from the arena ... treating the arena like the NFL's TV contract and they are the Arizona Cardinals. Think about it: The NHL has a salary cap so every team spends around the same amount on players. Expenses are around the same. Ticket prices in Tampa are average or above average. Attendance is way above average, or at least average if you think they're increasing attendance that much. So if they are "losing money," with one of the biggest grossing concert venues in the entire world, then every single NHL team must be losing money (which, if you believe the owners, they are). Think about it, pretty much no other team gets as much revenue from their arena as the Lightning do. Expenses are pretty much the same. So either every team loses money ... or something fishy is going on with their book-keeping. They split profits on their books for business reasons and don't count concert revenue -- even though they wouldn't get concert revenue if they didn't own the team (can't move it because the team owns the lease). Having said that, I don't recall saying I thought the Lightning made money; I merely said no Canadian city without a team could do better. If you think an arena in Winnipeg could be the second highest selling concert venue in the entire world then go ahead and build one. OR, you can think I'm wrong about this. In which case that's more justification for not putting a team in a small Canadian market. Imagine how much money a team would lose without being a top three concert venue in the world. Knowing how much money they make in concerts, all your quote does is reinforce how a smaller Canadian city just couldn't be viable. Anyway, we're going in circles here and there is really no point continuing. I've hurled enough shoes. I'll let you have the last word if you want it. Although I am curious about one thing: Are you a Flames fan?

[Teffy 0]

Those profits don't include revenue from the arena, which they treat separately. The arena is one of the highest grossing arenas in the world. However the revenue is tied to ownership of the team (the hockey team own the arena -- if you move the team you lose ownership of the arena) so they make money with the Lightning. They don't want to move -- no way they'd give up the revenue from that arena.The venue in downtown Tampa has been ranked as the leading concert ticket sales venue in North America, as well as second largest worldwide, by a music industry publication for the first half of 2005. http://tampabay.bizjournals.com/tampabay/s...18/daily11.html The whining about profits is PR to lower payroll and rake in even more profits from the arena ... treating the arena like the NFL's TV contract and they are the Arizona Cardinals. Think about it: The NHL has a salary cap so every team spends around the same amount on players. Expenses are around the same. Ticket prices in Tampa are average or above average. Attendance is way above average, or at least average if you think they're increasing attendance that much. So if they are "losing money," with one of the biggest grossing concert venues in the entire world, then every single NHL team must be losing money (which, if you believe the owners, they are). Think about it, pretty much no other team gets as much revenue from their arena as the Lightning do. Expenses are pretty much the same. So either every team loses money ... or something fishy is going on with their book-keeping. They split profits on their books for business reasons and don't count concert revenue -- even though they wouldn't get concert revenue if they didn't own the team (can't move it because the team owns the lease). Having said that, I don't recall saying I thought the Lightning made money; I merely said no Canadian city without a team could do better. If you think an arena in Winnipeg could be the second highest selling concert venue in the entire world then go ahead and build one. OR, you can think I'm wrong about this. In which case that's more justification for not putting a team in a small Canadian market. Imagine how much money a team would lose without being a top three concert venue in the world. Knowing how much money they make in concerts, all your quote does is reinforce how a smaller Canadian city just couldn't be viable. Anyway, we're going in circles here and there is really no point continuing. I've hurled enough shoes. I'll let you have the last word if you want it. Although I am curious about one thing: Are you a Flames fan?

FUUCKING hate the flames. Canucks fan.Also, i'm right, you're wrong. last word. victory.