.15/.30 Nl Medium Pair On Paired Board

[linkwood 0]

Need some help with this one. back ground on the villian (BB), we played one hand where he limped in MP with 10-8o, called my button raise, and then paid me off after hitting top pair for half his stack when i played aces fast. After that hand he proceeded to go on tilt, playing every hand, somewhat LAG-y. I've been a TAG so far although i'm relatively new to the table. every time i have raised i have cb so far.Stack sizes:BB: $43.35Hero: $99.65Full Tilt PokerNo Limit Holdem Ring gameBlinds: $0.15/$0.305 playersConverterPre-flop: (5 players) Hero is CO with UTG calls, Hero raises to $1.5, 2 folds, BB calls, UTG calls.Flop: :D ($4.65, 3 players)BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $3.8, BB raises to $7.6, UTG folds, Hero raises to $25, BB raises all-in $41.85, Hero???Now, i re-raise here because the min-check raise seemed weak and didn't make sense. So i wanted to reraise, and reraise hard, like i had with the aces earlier, to show him that i had a hand. I thought he could easily c/r with a2, two spades, or any pp. It was reasonably certain i had the best hand against his range, and i didn't think i could just call with the amount of scare cards that could come on the turn (almost any card is scary). should i reraise here? and if so, was my raise too much? Then, when he moves in, its only about 16 more for me to call into a pot of 70. Now its either he's making a crazy move or he's got a jack. Plus i factor in that he thinks i'm tight, so either he's lost his mind or he has a jack. i've only got two outs if he does. is this a standard fold or does anyone call here?

[NEtwowilldo 0]

The check min-raise, then shove when re-reraised screams " I have a jack!" to me. I don't think you should have re-raised as much. If you weren't sure whether or not he had a jack, perhaps you should have just called in position and re-evaluated on the turn, instead of playing a huge pot with one pair, and unsure if you have the best hand. This will help you keep the pot small when you have a small hand. I realize that you are now getting over 4 to 1 to make this call, but you need bigger than that if you are drawing to 2 outs, which I believe you are. He may have been tilting and playing crazy, but even tilting crazy people flop trips sometimes. Try to control the pot size next time, don't be so aggro, and wait for a spot where you're sure you have the best hand before you go committing a large portion of you're stack.Agree acid?

[mtdesmoines 3]

Then, when he moves in, its only about 16 more for me to call into a pot of 70. Now its either he's making a crazy move or he's got a jack.

I suspect he has a jack.

[linkwood 0]

I suspect he has a jack.

me too.

[linkwood 0]

The check min-raise, then shove when re-reraised screams " I have a jack!" to me. I don't think you should have re-raised as much. If you weren't sure whether or not he had a jack, perhaps you should have just called in position and re-evaluated on the turn, instead of playing a huge pot with one pair, and unsure if you have the best hand. This will help you keep the pot small when you have a small hand. I realize that you are now getting over 4 to 1 to make this call, but you need bigger than that if you are drawing to 2 outs, which I believe you are. He may have been tilting and playing crazy, but even tilting crazy people flop trips sometimes. Try to control the pot size next time, don't be so aggro, and wait for a spot where you're sure you have the best hand before you go committing a large portion of you're stack.Agree acid?

i agree that i have a marginal hand and i want to keep the pot small. the problem i had was identifying what cards were safe cards. obviously any spade is bad. any card 10+ is bad. but any card below, except for a 9 is a little scary too for two reasons: first, if he had a smaller pair that's one less hand that i beat, but i won't be able to identify that. second, it may give him one pair, which he may think is best and bet in such a way that i let go of my better hand. that's why i chose to raise. i figured that this was either a bluff or a jack and by raising so big i was able to define more where he was at. could i do this cheaper though?

[NEtwowilldo 0]

You could have made it like 12 or 13, probably would have got the same information.I think a call will gain you some information too though.If he continues to slowplay on the turn, you can check behind to try and get a cheap showdown. If he puts out like an $8.50 value bet, you can assume your beat and move on.

[mtdesmoines 3]

me too.

But it's only a couple bucks more to find out. Nice raise, donk.

[linkwood 0]

But it's only a couple bucks more to find out. Nice raise, donk.

yeah. there are hold em specialists, stud specialists. i'm a 'put my money in bad' specialist.

[mtdesmoines 3]

yeah. there are hold em specialists, stud specialists. i'm a 'put my money in bad' specialist.

I've been more of a "put my money in good and watch it go bad" specialist in 2007. It's turning around though.

[dms26 3]

Now, i re-raise here because the min-check raise seemed weak and didn't make sense.

usually a min raise post flop is a sign of strength, I don't think he does this with a 2. Maybe the nut flush draw plays it like this but that's about the only hand I think you are ahead of and even then it's a coin flip.

[dms26 3]

i figured that this was either a bluff or a jack and by raising so big i was able to define more where he was at. could i do this cheaper though?

the problem is you bet close to the pot and were re-raised, so now when you raise big to see where you are you commit too much of your stack. So even when you get the information that you're beat it's hard to fold.I don't play alot of 6 max, but it seems like a big raise preflop with 99. That kind of sets up the rest of the hand. Especially when it's a multiway pot.

[linkwood 0]

the problem is you bet close to the pot and were re-raised, so now when you raise big to see where you are you commit too much of your stack. So even when you get the information that you're beat it's hard to fold.I don't play alot of 6 max, but it seems like a big raise preflop with 99. That kind of sets up the rest of the hand. Especially when it's a multiway pot.

i had one limper behind, so i normally raise 5x the bb against limpers. if i'm first to open i normally raise 4x bb. i don't think a difference of less than a dollar though would have really affected how the hand went down though. do you?yeah, i can kind of see that. do i have to raise here? can i dump the hand or just call? if i raise, how much?

[dms26 3]

i had one limper behind, so i normally raise 5x the bb against limpers. if i'm first to open i normally raise 4x bb. i don't think a difference of less than a dollar though would have really affected how the hand went down though. do you?yeah, i can kind of see that. do i have to raise here? can i dump the hand or just call? if i raise, how much?

probably not, since I play full I usually just limp behind the limper with a pp TT or under. I may raise in late position to isolate but I guess you are in late position at a 5 handed table. Oh well, that part isn't that important.When he raises the flop I just can't think of that many hands we beat, would he do this with 88-33? Do I want to play for stacks to find out? He seems like the type of player to pay you off, so I think I wait for a better spot and dump to the raise on the flop. But again I don't play enough short-handed to give a really good answer.

[Acid_Knight 2]

I honestly don't mind the hand until you raise his $8 to $25. You get the same information for $10 less and you can fold without looking like as much of a tool as you will when you had 3 bet the flop and then folded for such a small amount more. Unless he's a total donk, you can't call the bet since he obviously has a J or at least 2 big spades, but it's probably JT or something like 85% of the time.

[linkwood 0]

I honestly don't mind the hand until you raise his $8 to $25. You get the same information for $10 less and you can fold without looking like as much of a tool as you will when you had 3 bet the flop and then folded for such a small amount more. Unless he's a total donk, you can't call the bet since he obviously has a J or at least 2 big spades, but it's probably JT or something like 85% of the time.

Yeah, i blew that part. but do you have to reraise there? can you just call or fold?

[Acid_Knight 2]

Yeah, i blew that part. but do you have to reraise there? can you just call or fold?

You can call or fold or reraise. If you think he'd min raise you for information, I don't mind another small 3-bet. You can certainly fold if you're pretty sure he has a J here. The only other option is that you call and fold the turn if he bets again and you didn't hit your 2 outer. Either line is "ok" with me, but you reraised way to big and wasted money, but you knew that.