Dream Team

[BigDMcGee 3,355]

BigDWhen you look at Mario's stats vs Wayne's, take a look at the games played category. You'll see Gretz was lucky enough to stay healthy his whole career, while Mario dealt with a terrible back, cancer, heart problems, among other things. Unless it dropped significantly since his comeback, Mario should have the highest points-per-game total. He did, at least, when he retired the first time in 97.Not to take anything away from Gretzky, who was an amazing player, but personally, I think Mario had more raw talent, just unfortunately, didn't get the chances to match the numbers. Also, a lot of people will say the same of Bobby Orr.

So Wayne V Mario is kinda like the Beatles V Stones of the Hockey world, then? Most fans like both, but are passionate about one or the other being the best?

[digitalmonkey 929]

So Wayne V Mario is kinda like the Beatles V Stones of the Hockey world, then? Most fans like both, but are passionate about one or the other being the best?

As you know you'll never get everyone to agree on anything let alone the best hockey player ever. Personally, I'd take Gretzky over Lemieux in a heartbeat. I won't argue that Lemieux had more talent, but talent alone does not make a hockey player; look at Alexei Kovalev. As for the anti-Gretzky sentiment; you'll always find that those that are held in such high regard by some are almost always targets for hatred by others.

[WestcoastCanuck 0]

There is consensus on the top 5 of all time, just not the order. Gretzky, Lemieux, Bobby Orr, Gordie Howe and Maurice Richard almost always round out any top 5 debate. Howe and Richard (and to an extent Orr) rarely get consideration for best player now because a lot of people didn't get to see them play.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

As you know you'll never get everyone to agree on anything let alone the best hockey player ever. Personally, I'd take Gretzky over Lemieux in a heartbeat. I won't argue that Lemieux had more talent, but talent alone does not make a hockey player; look at Alexei Kovalev. As for the anti-Gretzky sentiment; you'll always find that those that are held in such high regard by some are almost always targets for hatred by others.

I too would take Gretzky. Wayne made plays that no one saw coming, moves that no one had dared try before his time. Did he have shortcomings? Sure, for one, his body was not ideal for an NHL star. I don't believe in making one the greatest of all time by describing the so stated deficiences of others, so I wont get into Mario. my argument.........Gretzky was just too much fun to watch in the 80's!! In the end, he was a shadow of his former self.

[MapleLeafpoker 1,462]

not to argue about top 5 of all time or anything like that, but anyone ever watch an old game from the 80's or 70's? sometimes i will catch one on Leafs tv, and I can't help but notice how sloppy the play is, and how the players appear to be in not as great a shape or as fast or as big as they are today.which makes me wonder. As much as I love guys like Vaive, Sittler as a couple of leafs examples, if they were playing today, would they have been anywhere near as successful as they were back then? I was even noticing non-Leafs too and wondering if they played today, would they be as good?

[nell789 0]

Coaches - Scotty Bowman, Lindy RuffForward Line 1 - Gilbert Perreault, Rene Robert, Rick MartinForward Line 2 - Pat LaFontaine, Alexander Mogilny, Danny GareForward Line 3 - Daniel Briere, Chris Drury, Maxim AfinogenovForward Line 4 - Dave Andreychuk, Dale Hawerchuk, Pierre TurgeronFan Favorite Line - Matthew Barnaby, Rob Ray, Mike FolignoDefense:Phil HousleyLindy RuffBrian CampbellJim SchoenfeldPhillipe BoucherTim HortonGoalies:Dominik HasekRyan MillerTom BarrassoHonorable Mentions:Thomas Vanek, Brad May, Jim Lorentz, Rick Vaive, Miroslav Satan, Martin Biron, Larry Carriere, Mike Ramsey, many, many more.

I don't get how Afinogenov is on in the lineup while Satan is on the bench. Satan was Buffalo's leading scorer for 6 straight seasons, and was their only star for a long time. Afinogenov has only broken out the past two seasons, even though he's been with the team for a long time.

[digitalmonkey 929]

not to argue about top 5 of all time or anything like that, but anyone ever watch an old game from the 80's or 70's? sometimes i will catch one on Leafs tv, and I can't help but notice how sloppy the play is, and how the players appear to be in not as great a shape or as fast or as big as they are today.which makes me wonder. As much as I love guys like Vaive, Sittler as a couple of leafs examples, if they were playing today, would they have been anywhere near as successful as they were back then? I was even noticing non-Leafs too and wondering if they played today, would they be as good?

Today's players are in great shape and one could make an argument that an average player today is a better hockey player than the best players of years ago. However, take a player from that era and give him today's training and equipment and he will still be one of the best. In other words, it's all relative.

[pezeveng 207]

If Iam starting any team no matter what decade this is the guy Iam starting with Mike Bossy 10 years in the league. He predicted in his rookie year that he would score 50 how many rookies can say that. Also 9 hat tricks in one year, and of course 50 in 50 club member.BTW Leafs and Rangers both passed twice on him in the draft.Year Team GP G A Pts Pim1977-78 New York Islanders 73 53 38 91 6 1978-79 New York Islanders 80 69 57 126 25 1979-80 New York Islanders 75 51 41 92 12 1980-81 New York Islanders 79 68 51 119 32 1981-82 New York Islanders 80 64 83 147 22 1982-83 New York Islanders 79 60 58 118 20 1983-84 New York Islanders 67 51 67 118 8 1984-85 New York Islanders 76 58 59 117 38 1985-86 New York Islanders 80 61 62 123 14 1986-87 New York Islanders 63 38 37 75 33 NHL Totals 752 573 553 1126 210 TrophiesCalder Trophy - 1 (1978)Lady Byng Memorial Award - 3 (1983, 1984, 1986)Conn Smythe Trophy - 1 (1982)ChampionshipsStanley Cup - 4 (1980, 1981, 1982, 1983)

[hockey fan 0]

There is consensus on the top 5 of all time, just not the order. Gretzky, Lemieux, Bobby Orr, Gordie Howe and Maurice Richard almost always round out any top 5 debate. Howe and Richard (and to an extent Orr) rarely get consideration for best player now because a lot of people didn't get to see them play.

For those that didn't get a chance to see Orr (I did, thankfully) here are some highlights. He was an amazing player.Highlights:

A Hockey Hall of Fame tribute video of Bobby Orr (interviews & highlights):

[digitalmonkey 929]

For those that didn't get a chance to see Orr (I did, thankfully) here are some highlights. He was an amazing player.Highlights:

A Hockey Hall of Fame tribute video of Bobby Orr (interviews & highlights):

Orr was great!

[ajs510 122]

I don't get how Afinogenov is on in the lineup while Satan is on the bench. Satan was Buffalo's leading scorer for 6 straight seasons, and was their only star for a long time. Afinogenov has only broken out the past two seasons, even though he's been with the team for a long time.

Personal preference / bias. I can't stand Satan, but I also can't deny that he was a big reason for their late 90's successes.

[pauld22 0]

Personal preference / bias. I can't stand Satan, but I also can't deny that he was a big reason for their late 90's successes.

I think most Sabres fans would agree. He is slow, lazy, and soft.

[ajs510 122]

I think most Sabres fans would agree. He is slow, lazy, and soft.

Not to mention a negative influence on the locker room and a general non-team player.

[FCP Bob 1,321]

Not to mention a negative influence on the locker room and a general non-team player.

He's freaking Satan don't forget. You know 666 and all that stuff.

[doox 15]

For those that didn't get a chance to see Orr (I did, thankfully) here are some highlights. He was an amazing player.Highlights:

A Hockey Hall of Fame tribute video of Bobby Orr (interviews & highlights):

Ok, I'm one of the fans that isn't all up on my hockey history before the Lemieux era, so a big thanks for those videos. I have a better understanding now for why people revere Orr so much.

[ajs510 122]

He's freaking Satan don't forget. You know 666 and all that stuff.

How he never wound up in a Jersey uniform is beyond me, but I guess there's still time. That sweater would FLY off the shelves, the NHL should push for that trade just for the merchandising alone.

[TulaneFlyr 0]

I guess everyone is doing a Personal Favorites "my team" and "leaguewide" so here we go for me (as the token Flyers fan):Coach - Fred SheroGM - Bob Clarke (Before you attack this, look up Russ Farwell's record!)G - Bernie Parent (Ron Hextall being a close second)D - Mark HoweD - Eric Desjardins (Careerwise you could argue Coffey here, but remember him when he was a Flyer? Neither do we!)W - Tim Kerr (Edging out Recchi - As I could never really get into him)C - Jeremy Roenick(Edging out Forsberg, Clarke and Brindy - And don't say the L Word)W - Reggie Leach (JUST edging out Bill Barber and Dave Poulin)---LeaguewideCoach - Jim Schoenfeld (anyone who can tell Don Koharski to have another donut can't be that bad - Though Scotty Bowman was pretty harsh!)GM -Pierre LaCroix (with HM to Lamarillo)G - Patrick Roy (edging out Plante)D - Raymond Bourque (Honorable mention to Coffey)D - Bobby Orr W - Gordie HoweC - Wayne GretzkyW - Mario LemieuxHMs at fwd (Jagirl, Francis, Kurri, Messier, Bure - yes Bure . . . his career was like Mario's - cut short by injury and MANY others I am conveniently forgetting)

[WestcoastCanuck 0]

D - Mark HoweBure - yes Bure . . . his career was like Mario's - cut short by injury and MANY others I am conveniently forgetting)

From anything I have ever heard, Mark Howe might be the best forgotten defenceman EVER.I love your opinion on Bure, the only real knock on him, IMO, is his Satan like attitude.

[Speed Limit 0]

Panthers: G- John VanbiesbrouckD- Gord MurphyD- Ed JovanovskiW- Scott MellanbyW- Pavel BureC- Olli Jokinen

[WestcoastCanuck 0]

Panthers: G- John VanbiesbrouckD- Gord MurphyD- Ed JovanovskiW- Scott MellanbyW- Pavel BureC- Olli Jokinen

Coach = Doug Maclean? Roger Nielson?

[Speed Limit 0]

Coach = Doug Maclean? Roger Nielson?

Douggie Maclean, never seen clubs so motivated with such a lack of clear cut talent or superstars.

[Vertigo 0]

C - Igor LarionovLW - Slava KozlovRW - Sergei FedorovLD - Slava FetisovRD - Vladmir Konstantinov

[WhiteSpade 0]

BigDWhen you look at Mario's stats vs Wayne's, take a look at the games played category. You'll see Gretz was lucky enough to stay healthy his whole career, while Mario dealt with a terrible back, cancer, heart problems, among other things. Unless it dropped significantly since his comeback, Mario should have the highest points-per-game total. He did, at least, when he retired the first time in 97.

I had to look this up. Gretzky ended up racking up around 0.04 points per game more than Mario. This being said, Mario would have probably done much better if wasn't hampered with injuries/cancer... causing him to play much less than 100% even when he was playing.

[doox 15]

Mario's last 2 years with the low-talent team killed his PPG average. Before that, he was slightly above Gretzky.

[Zach6668 513]

Mario's last 2 years with the low-talent team killed his PPG average. Before that, he was slightly above Gretzky.

Before his comeback, ie his first full tenure in the league, ending in '97, he was the only player in league history with a PPG > 2.0, at 2.002, IIRC.