Phil Hellmuth Busto In Europe

[SpiderGuard 0]

so you think your chances are better at beating a tourney made up of 95% pro players<pre moneymaker wsop win> rather than one consisting of 60 % donkeys<wsop of today>?? makes perfect sense to me.

It does make sense if you think rather than just react. What tournament would you have a better shot at winning: you and 50 top pros, or you, 7950 donkeys, and 50 top pros? Your idea of doing it via percentage is wrong, the total volumes makes the two completely incomparable.

[doox 15]

I think with the wealth of information out there, the average poker pro today is better than the average poker pro back then. That's not to be disrespectful of the legends, of course, but I'm sure Doyle is better now than he was 30 years ago.

[HermanKahn 0]

see , i disagree...i think non pros are NOT afraid of phil.. i think they see other pros on t.v. giving phil a hard time and they have it in their minds phil is a donkey< steve dannaman for ex.> phil isnt that pro that frightens ppl at the table for some reason<tourneys>.

People who don't respect anyone who's been a pro for twenty years TOTALLY deserve to get their *** handed to them. Just because you don't let an irrational fear of another player's abilities knock you off your game doesn't mean you have to deny reality. If there's one sure way to stay an amateur, it's thinking you have nothing to learn: I don't care how good you are, there's always room to improve. Oh well, the more donkeys out there who think they're God's gift to poker, the easier it will be for the cold-blooded, ruthlessly analytical types to pick them off, one sucker at a time.

i dont see why he doesn't stick to tourney play where he is a dominating presense rather than play in a format where he is considered the fish at the table.

I don't see why he doesn't play more heads-up cash games. Chances are he'd make back all that money he lost to Tony G in no time.

[loxo 0]

anyone see the redundancy here?

I was thinking this too.

[blueodum 0]

You have to take all that trash-talking crap with a grain of salt. Why? Because deep down, everybody wants to be him. That's right, I'll say it again: DEEP DOWN, IN THEIR HEART OF HEARTS, ALL THE PEOPLE WHO TRASH-TALK PHIL HELLMUTH WISH THEY COULD BE HIM. Who wouldn't? Admit it, it's true: all the glory, all the titles, all the mobney. LOL The more confident and arrogant Hellmuth is and the louder he is when berating people, the more everyone wants to knock the p*ss out of him.I wouldn't want to be like Hellmuth. I'd much rather be like Allen Cunningham. A player who goes about his business and produced exceptionally good results.There's a reason Phil is the one player the entire world is fascinated and fixated on. It's really a simple matter of primate psychology: subdominant beta males trying to displace the alpha silverback by making the most noise. People aren't obsessed with Brunson and Chan in this way because they have class and play the game with dignity. But Phil? Ah, now THERE's the alpha monkey you really want to sink your teeth in! For the value of trash-talk "dominance displays" among chimpanzees in establishing the dominance hierarchy, check this out and see if it rings a bell:Not the entire world, just the less intelligent part of it. The part that is easily impressed by superficial displays of bravado. The WWE crowd, if you will.For, me, Phil Hellmuth's antics are an occasional amusing diversion when I watch poker on TV. They bring a little bit of comic relief into my life. He is quite good at acting like a blowhard - I'll give him that.

[blueodum 0]

The fact remains that, other than a couple of small buy in WSOP events (which aren't deep stack tourneys), Hellmuth hasn't had much tournament success these last few years. His record in WPT events (events with slow blind structures) pales in comparison to the likes of Negreanu, Lindgren, S Nguyen, JC Tran, Greenstein and many others.I echo Matusow - [to Hellmuth] " You a hasbeen, you won in the old days."

[iveyfan30 0]

It does make sense if you think rather than just react. What tournament would you have a better shot at winning: you and 50 top pros, or you, 7950 donkeys, and 50 top pros? Your idea of doing it via percentage is wrong, the total volumes makes the two completely incomparable.

i see your point, i know the fields today have wayyyy more ppl in them, but most of that is dead money so to speak. still wading through a field 0f 8,000 + is no small feat. i still say winning a tourney was equally hard but in a diffrent way. defenitley more skilled players then ,which= less fish to prey on and double through... and the 50 top pros werent the only pros in the field back then, pretty much any player back then was a guy that made his living from poker. today its patent attorneys giving their poker dream a shot. shrug..

[Abbaddabba 0]

i see your point, i know the fields today have wayyyy more ppl in them, but most of that is dead money so to speak. still wading through a field 0f 8,000 + is no small feat. i still say winning a tourney was equally hard but in a diffrent way. defenitley more skilled players then ,which= less fish to prey on and double through... and the 50 top pros werent the only pros in the field back then, pretty much any player back then was a guy that made his living from poker. today its patent attorneys giving their poker dream a shot. shrug..

You arent going to find much truly "dead money".If anything, casual players have more of a clue of what they're doing now than they have in the past.You didnt have to be a "pro" to enter then, just as you dont now.

[HermanKahn 0]

I wouldn't want to be like Hellmuth. I'd much rather be like Allen Cunningham. A player who goes about his business and produced exceptionally good results.

Well, you wouldn't have to be like him to want to BE him: chances are you'd be down with the ten bracelets and billion dollar net worth as much as the rest of us. LOL Personally, I want to be like Barry Greenstein and Chris Ferguson, but want to beat Phil Hellmuth and Tony G. Just because I'm psychologically astute enough to see the whole ridiculous "alpha monkey" thing for what it is doesn't mean I don't still feel it a little bit anyway. It's not going to affect my approach to the game one way or the other since I never go on tilt. At any rate, being honest with yourself about your motivations is the ultimate in +ev optimal strategies. LOL

[loxo 0]

Well, you wouldn't have to be like him to want to BE him: chances are you'd be down with the ten bracelets and billion dollar net worth as much as the rest of us. LOL Personally, I want to be like Barry Greenstein and Chris Ferguson, but want to beat Phil Hellmuth and Tony G. Just because I'm psychologically astute enough to see the whole ridiculous "alpha monkey" thing for what it is doesn't mean I don't still feel it a little bit anyway. It's not going to affect my approach to the game one way or the other since I never go on tilt. At any rate, being honest with yourself about your motivations is the ultimate in +ev optimal strategies. LOL

???

[HermanKahn 0]

I echo Matusow - [to Hellmuth] " You a hasbeen, you won in the old days."

Let me modify my original statement: If all trash talk directed at Hellmuth needs to be taken with a grain of salt, when it's coming from Matusow, it needs to be taken with the whole freaking boulder. Seriously. It's none of my business whatever the weird, screwed-up whatever-it-is they've got going on is, but damn. LOL Somebody could write a full-length dissertation on the continuous exchange and interplay of nonverbal dominance/submission communication cues that go down every time those two get around each other. I found the whole thing so striking, I made a series of screenshots and sent them to a colleague who knew absolutely nothing about poker, who they were, their history, etc. and was reading the screencaps completely blind: his reaction? "Wow. Those guys are f*cked up." hahaha More fun than a barrrel of monkeys, as the saying goes.

[HermanKahn 0]

billion dollar net worth???

Yeah. Tony G took a road trip with Hellmuth from Memphis to Tunica, and said that on the way down, Phil told him he'd be worth a billion dollars soon. Even if he's exaggerating to make himself look good, you know the guy has a nose for business and probably invested well, so I'd believe it's in the ballpark.

[James D 0]

Yeah. Tony G took a road trip with Hellmuth from Memphis to Tunica, and said that on the way down, Phil told him he'd be worth a billion dollars soon. Even if he's exaggerating to make himself look good, you know the guy has a nose for business and probably invested well, so I'd believe it's in the ballpark.

oh. my. god.please tell me you're not serious? if you truly believe Hellmuth is worth anywhere close to $1 BILLION, then you are either about 12 years old, or just severely misguided.

[loxo 0]

oh. my. god.please tell me you're not serious? if you truly believe Hellmuth is worth anywhere close to $1 BILLION, then you are either about 12 years old, or just severely misguided.

QFMFT

[HermanKahn 0]

"MEMPHIS WITH PHIL HELLMUTH" http://tonyg.pokerworks.com/2005/01/memphi...l-hellmuth.html"I got off my flight from Newark to Memphis, and as I go to pick up my bags I run itno the man himself, Phil Hellmuth. We had several clashes in the December $15,300 WPT event at Bellagio. Obviously, off the poker table am a different person,as is he. We started talking with about life, and he said that he might be worth a billion dollars soon. [...]We talked a lot about him, which is ok with me. I found a lot of things I wanted to know about him. He has a good heart, and that was good to know. We got a room next to each other at the Peabody hotel in Memphis,TN. This hotel is famous for its ducks, but also it used to host the highest stakes poker games in the US in the 1860’s and 1870’s. Its a 45 minute drive to Tunica where the poker action is, but if you want to have any life style this is the place to stay. We rented a car together and Phil said he didn’t want insurance since he has a spare million. I wish I did too."

[Suited_Up 2]

oh. my. god.please tell me you're not serious? if you truly believe Hellmuth is worth anywhere close to $1 BILLION, then you are either about 12 years old, or just severely misguided.

[benhoug 0]

Kurt,How wasted were you last night???Ben

[HermanKahn 0]

I already said Hellmuth was probably exaggerating somewhat for effect. But by and large, I think you people have been 100% bamboozled by the "bad boy of poker" shtick into conveniently forgetting the man came from an upper middle class family, married upper middle class--and that when upper middle class people come into money, they know how to invest it and diversify their holdings. I can't even begin to get into it all here, but I can assure you winnings at the poker table are only a small fraction of what this guy has got going on. And when you factor in the formidably devious PR/marketing skills of a natural-born con man, I'd be willing to lay odds his potential income is damn near unlimited. I seem to remember him mentioning something about making 100 million a year. When you think of how fast that sh*t compounds when you're investing it well, I'd say having a net worth of a billion dollars (aka 1,000 million) doesn't seem utterly outrageous.

[silkyjonson 1]

I already said Hellmuth was probably exaggerating somewhat for effect. But by and large, I think you people have been 100% bamboozled by the "bad boy of poker" shtick into conveniently forgetting the man came from an upper middle class family, married upper middle class--and that when upper middle class people come into money, they know how to invest it and diversify their holdings. I can't even begin to get into it all here, but I can assure you winnings at the poker table are only a small fraction of what this guy has got going on. And when you factor in the formidably devious PR/marketing skills of a natural-born con man, I'd be willing to lay odds his potential income is damn near unlimited. I seem to remember him mentioning something about making 100 million a year. When you think of how fast that sh*t compounds when you're investing it well, I'd say having a net worth of a billion dollars (aka 1,000 million) doesn't seem utterly outrageous.

I seem to remember him dodging bullets, is that an upper middle class trait? I would'nt know

[Suited_Up 2]

Kurt,How wasted were you last night???Ben

Very.... Did I send you texts or something? I think I sent a few

[benhoug 0]

Very.... Did I send you texts or something? I think I sent a few

Yeah, you sent me a couple texts, then when I wrote back you were like, "what the **** are you talking about..."

[Suited_Up 2]

Yeah, you sent me a couple texts, then when I wrote back you were like, "what the **** are you talking about..."

LMAO... I have no recollection of that. I just re-enabled for my phone to save sent messages, cause I need to keep track of what the heck I say. But I just checked and saw your response about the Roots. How was it? I'm priceless, lol.

[slappywhite 0]

In the best of all possible worlds, that would be dreamy, but there are two big problems with that picture: 1) He'd never listen to me. Right now, I'm just a lowly PhD student and DoD think tank analyst--"what could an unproven little monkey like me possibly tell the reigning silverback about poker"? 2) a properly-done statistical analysis modeling the weaknesses in a player's game is worth a hell of a lot of money. Either they're going pay me well for it upfront, or about three years from now when I have my bankroll where it should be (f*** getting staked) I'm going to carve it straight out of their stacks at the table. Seeing as how I'm so dissatisfied with being just another dime-a-dozen beta chimp, I have a feeling it's going to be the latter. No doubt about it, in poker--as in the world of national security strategy, my natural habitat-- information is power, and he with the coldest blood wins.

Wow. I hardly ever post, but have to say you are a gigantic d ick. Such an arrogant, proud little tool. I can't wait until you show up at the big games with your phd,statistical analysis, and cold blood and go home broke and crying like a 12 year old girl. I am sure you do nothing more than run for coffee at the DOD,but even having you in the building makes me feel less secure. I never comment on anyone posts, but your such a fool I couldn't stay quiet.You got beat up alot in school, didn't you? I am going to answer your reply in advance about also being a mma-trained ninja in addition to your phd and top secret government job. My reply- Your still a tool.

[Balloon guy 158]

I already said Hellmuth was probably exaggerating somewhat for effect. But by and large, I think you people have been 100% bamboozled by the "bad boy of poker" shtick into conveniently forgetting the man came from an upper middle class family, married upper middle class--and that when upper middle class people come into money, they know how to invest it and diversify their holdings. I can't even begin to get into it all here, but I can assure you winnings at the poker table are only a small fraction of what this guy has got going on. And when you factor in the formidably devious PR/marketing skills of a natural-born con man, I'd be willing to lay odds his potential income is damn near unlimited. I seem to remember him mentioning something about making 100 million a year. When you think of how fast that sh*t compounds when you're investing it well, I'd say having a net worth of a billion dollars (aka 1,000 million) doesn't seem utterly outrageous.

I once had a guy tell me while we were golfing that the first billion is the hardest. I tend to think the third one is, but that's only because of cyclical economics.Phil Helmuth was marketable a couple years ago, now he is an oddity. He really needs three more bracelets next year to become marketable again.

[Abbaddabba 0]

But by and large, I think you people have been 100% bamboozled by the "bad boy of poker" shtick into conveniently forgetting the man came from an upper middle class family, married upper middle class--and that when upper middle class people come into money, they know how to invest it and diversify their holdings.

Upper middle class wealth doesnt turn into a billion dollars.Knowing how to invest and diversify isnt enough to accumulate anything close to that. Even if you consume absolutely nothing from your investment incomes, it takes a decade to double in value.