Flopped Boat Vs. Terrible Turn/river

[rdtedm 0]

One of the worst hands happened to me last night (especially since it was deepstacked) at my 1/2 NL game:Hero is button ($672)Villain in bigstack, has hero coveredRead on villain is super TAG. Won one huge hand vs. another large stack and showed the best full house. Plays maybe 2 hands/hour and is always pushing hard with them.SB/BB PostUTG callsfolds to Hero, Hero has (Ks Kd)Hero raises to $10SB callsBB callsUTG calls4 way flop: ($40)Kh 10h 10cSB checksBB checksUTG bets $15Hero calls $15SB calls $15BB folds and receives lecture on pot odds3 way turn: ($85)Kh 10h 10c [Qh]SB bets $25UTG raises to $75Hero re-raises to $225SB takes about 5 mins, and foldsUTG thinks equally long and smooth calls.2 way river: ($855)Kh 10h 10c Qh [Ah]UTG is all in, has hero covered ($322 more)Wasn't sure if villain cold be holding Jh. Thought villain had Ahxh, but river proved me wrong. Tried to see if villain would play 10x Jh this way, seemed feasible especially after the turn. I ruled out AA or 10 10, because with AA villain would re-raise me PF (almost 100% of the time) and wouldn't have played AA after my re-raise on the turn. I'm pretty sure the SB folded a 10, because when he mucked, one card showed, wasn't a heart, and wasn't a K or Q.I hate these hands when it's deepstacked. Thoughts?

[mtdesmoines 3]

One of the worst hands happened to me last night (especially since it was deepstacked) at my 1/2 NL game:Hero is button ($672)Villain in bigstack, has hero coveredRead on villain is super TAG. Won one huge hand vs. another large stack and showed the best full house. Plays maybe 2 hands/hour and is always pushing hard with them.SB/BB PostUTG callsfolds to Hero, Hero has (Ks Kd)Hero raises to $10SB callsBB callsUTG calls4 way flop: ($40)Kh 10h 10cSB checksBB checksUTG bets $15Hero calls $15SB calls $15BB folds and receives lecture on pot odds3 way turn: ($85)Kh 10h 10c [Qh]SB bets $25UTG raises to $75Hero re-raises to $225SB takes about 5 mins, and foldsUTG thinks equally long and smooth calls.2 way river: ($855)Kh 10h 10c Qh [Ah]UTG is all in, has hero covered ($322 more)Wasn't sure if villain cold be holding Jh. Thought villain had Ahxh, but river proved me wrong. Tried to see if villain would play 10x Jh this way, seemed feasible especially after the turn. I ruled out AA or 10 10, because with AA villain would re-raise me PF (almost 100% of the time) and wouldn't have played AA after my re-raise on the turn. I'm pretty sure the SB folded a 10, because when he mucked, one card showed, wasn't a heart, and wasn't a K or Q.I hate these hands when it's deepstacked. Thoughts?

"BB folds and receives lecture on pot odds" --- LOL .. you guys are cracking me up today.$300 to see $1200 with a kings-up boat? Villain has queens over tens. Call.

[No_Neck 0]

"BB folds and receives lecture on pot odds" --- LOL .. you guys are cracking me up today.$300 to see $1200 with a kings-up boat? Villain has queens over tens. Call.

fold are you mad? I would make a crying call, unless this is a life changing amount of money, then you need a lecture on not putting all your money on the table.

[mtdesmoines 3]

fold are you mad?

I was quoting something from the original post.

[No_Neck 0]

I was quoting something from the original post.

yeah sorry I wasn't talking to you. I was talking to OP I just have a habit of hitting the last reply button.

[Acid_Knight 2]

Hands we beat:QQ, QT, AT, KT, Any flush, any straight, any trips any bluff.Hands that beat us:AA,TT, any hand with the J in it. His bet is too small on the flop to protect anything with JT. If he's super TAG, he'd have reraised preflop with AA. He could have had Q J and been semibluffing, but how could he call your raise on the turn? He'd surely know that you already had at least a flush and likely a full house.I think this is one of those super cooler hands and he's on the wrong end of it. Based on how it has played out, I really feel like he has KT here and flopped a worse boat than you. None of the other hands really make sense with the betting pattern.Oh, and I don't think you can fold this hand. Unless he turns over the J or AA, you get to win the pot. He is most likely to have a lesser full house.

[donk4life 34]

Can you honestly put him on the one card that will beat you?I agree, you can rule out AA or 10 10I would have to call here

[mtdesmoines 3]

Based on how it has played out, I really feel like he has KT here and flopped a worse boat than you. None of the other hands really make sense with the betting pattern.

I never thought of that. QQ made sense to me. Seems like he woke up when that Q hit the board.

[Acid_Knight 2]

I never thought of that. QQ made sense to me. Seems like he woke up when that Q hit the board.

I tend to rule out QQ just becuase he said he was TAG and he limp called UTG with QQ? Not really a TAG style play if you ask me. But hey, anything is possible.

[rdtedm 0]

I almost ruled out QQ too because he didn't raise PF. Then again, just because he's TAG doesn't mean he can't try to trap.10x Jh here was the hand I thought he was holding, just because he raised to protect and was still able to call a large re-raise since he had redraw outs if I had him beat.

[Acid_Knight 2]

I almost ruled out QQ too because he didn't raise PF. Then again, just because he's TAG doesn't mean he can't try to trap.10x Jh here was the hand I thought he was holding, just because he raised to protect and was still able to call a large re-raise since he had redraw outs if I had him beat.

A good TAG player would probably not make that bet on the flop. The board has 2 broadway cards, it's paired and there's a flush draw. If he has JT, I find it hard to believe that he'd bet 1/3 of the pot when his hand is so easily drawn out on.

[mtdesmoines 3]

I almost ruled out QQ too because he didn't raise PF. Then again, just because he's TAG doesn't mean he can't try to trap.10x Jh here was the hand I thought he was holding, just because he raised to protect and was still able to call a large re-raise since he had redraw outs if I had him beat.

But here's the thing ... a super TAG UTG is going to PLAN on limp-raising those QQs and get to heads up play. However, he got his panties wadded when there was a raise and (3?4?) callers? In this spot, he can't re-raise with QQ, because he's worried about KK waiting to pounce on a re-raise. Why not just get to a flop and see what ya get? (Like Mike Sexton says, don't go broke preflop with queens in your hand). Next, he sees a trouble flop, but he's got two pair and lots of action. The Q hits the turn and suddenly, he's alive, building the pot. He's got queens up and feels good -- only hands beating him are KK and TT and surely KK would have re-raised preflop, right? The card that fills the royal on the river isn't building this pot at this point. And if you put him on jhtx, he's got a pretty intimidating looking board with bottom trips and lots of action. He's not going crazy on that board with that turn if he's got a brain.At least, that's how I'm breaking down this hand.

[eroc824 0]

QQ feels like the most likely hand, but then again would a TAG player like this call with the ladies on a K1010 board?? i doubt it but it is possible. I dont think i saw anyone mention A10???? when the board started getting dangerous he raised to see where his hand was at on the turn possibly. then he iffy calls with trips trying to fill on river? fills and pushes? its a stretch but its highly likely. im not sure if i think this could be J10.....would this TAG limp utg with J10 offsuit to have the J of hearts? i doubt it.

[Sefaje 0]

Getting 3.65:1 I definitely call this. You'd have to be real, real deepstacked to fold this hand.Would a TAG like this bet $15 into a $40 pot with TT on the KTT flop? Preflop he played like he's got TT, but if he's decent he'd check quads hoping for someone to make a boat/broadway.Frankly I'm more worried about the Jh, but would a decent player still be around with any hand with the Jh in it? The answer should be no, but if he does have TJ with the Jh, he would have done his looong deliberation on the turn before calling. I'm never folding here just because of the large range of hands that even a TAG might think are good here --- QQ,JJ,KT,QT,AT, etc. I think AT is pretty likely.I think you're beat here at most 1/2 the time, making the call hugely +EV

[darkrider88 0]

TAG players do not like to trap w/ a vulnerable hand like QQ UTG, and when the raise came around to him he would of reraised if he did have QQ. Overall, I think that there are too many hands you have beat to lay this down with the size of that pot.

[rgold79 0]

I'm still calling, but no one mentioned the possibility that he has AxJh. You could make a very reasonable case for him holding this hand, hitting the nut straight on the turn and smooth calling the raise.

[Acid_Knight 2]

I'm still calling, but no one mentioned the possibility that he has AxJh. You could make a very reasonable case for him holding this hand, hitting the nut straight on the turn and smooth calling the raise.

He would have had to call a bet on the flop of a board that was already paired and had a flush draw. Sane players don't do that with gutshots.

[pokerinc 0]

To me, villian's got ace ten. It definitely makes the most sense. I'd say like 60% ace10, 30% qq 10% jh10x. Got to call all day every day. Unless he does the jamie gold jack flash.

[throwemaway 0]

Results? I think we have established this is a clear cut call...

[rdtedm 0]

He had A-10.

[Acid_Knight 2]

He had A-10.

Which he showed you when you folded?

[GABMAD 0]

my read here is A Jh.

[Acid_Knight 2]

my read here is A Jh.

Well, he didn't have that hand. It wouldn't have made sense for him to have that hand anyway.

[rdtedm 0]

Which he showed you when you folded?

No, we showed down and he said "Wow, that's sick" for like 30 mins afterwards.

[Acid_Knight 2]

No, we showed down and he said "Wow, that's sick" for like 30 mins afterwards.

I wonder what part was sick. Where he called with an easily dominated hand preflop? Where he hit a flop and was drawing to 1 out? Where he made a terrible raise on the river that would only be called by the half dozen hands that beat his?